The nations only statewide school voucher program faces legal showdown

[Red Dawn]

Hell lets just make those with school age children pay taxes for school and the rest of us who don't have any little bastards of our own can use that money for our retirement. If that was the case I wouldn't have any problems with people like Rip using vouchers so his little snot gobblers can get a religious education.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Would it make you anny happier if the government gave the money to the parents and they paid the schools instead?

No. Because I look at the whole picture.

The govenment is merely acting as a payment proxy for the parents. This is not any comingling of church and state.

No, the parents are the proxy of the government. The funds are coming from the government.

Listen, if you advocated a system with no public education and no taxation for education and people spent their money on religious education, I would say it's their choice. However, as long as the funds are coming from the government purse, there's a mixing.

 

[BarneyFife]

Churchs should pay taxes.

 

[tec699]

What gives you the right to decide how I should spend my own fair share of that money??

With that line of thought than why should my tax dollars go to the war in Iraq. Why should I have to pay for senior citizen programs? Why should I have to pay for road construction is I don't use that particular road?

It's my money right?

:disgust:

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Would vouchers increase to account for the higher cost of better performing schools, or would parents have to send their kids to school based on what they can afford?

Each private school is responsible for determining its own tuition fees. Vouchers only refund an individual child's fair share of the public education funding that would have otherwise been used to defray the cost of attending a public school.

Families are responsible for covering any "gap" between the amount of funds provided by a school voucher, and the actual cost of attending a private school.

With or without vouchers, parents must decide the appropriate school for their child based on what they can afford. With a voucher system in-place, many families that were formerly unable to afford the entire cost of a private school, may be able to afford the cost of a private school by only having to pay for the gap in funding. :thumbsup:😀

 

[homercles337]

Can you tell me that the bush administration did NOT know about these statistics when implementing this voucher system:

Where do Private School Students go to School?
89-90 99-00
Catholic 54.5% 48.6%
Non-Sectarian 13.2% 15.7%
Conservative Christian 10.9% 15.0%
Baptist 5.8% 6.1%
Lutheran 4.4% 4.3%
Jewish 3.2% 3.3%
Other 4.5% 4.5%

Thats going to be hard to read ( doubt the spacing will hold). Summary: less than 16% of private schools are nonsectarian.

Pleanty more here.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Summary: less than 16% of private schools are nonsectarian.

Interesting info.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hell lets just make those with school age children pay taxes for school and the rest of us who don't have any little bastards of our own can use that money for our retirement. If that was the case I wouldn't have any problems with people like Rip using vouchers so his little snot gobblers can get a religious education.

Sure, as soon as we let you old farts pay for your own retirement, while us young workers get to invest our SS money where we want. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any problems with people like you using your SS checks to buy Geritol, Depends, and Viagra.

😉

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Sure, as soon as we let you old farts pay for your own retirement, while us young workers get to invest our SS money where we want. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any problems with people like you using your SS checks to buy Geritol, Depends, and Viagra. 😉

lol 😀

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Sure, as soon as we let you old farts pay for your own retirement, while us young workers get to invest our SS money where we want. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any problems with people like you using your SS checks to buy Geritol, Depends, and Viagra.

😉

I'm going to assume this is not all joking...

Don't worry red dawn, even most Republicans think government should provide the elderly a decent standard of living. First poll (on dynamic webpage)

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Sure, as soon as we let you old farts pay for your own retirement, while us young workers get to invest our SS money where we want. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any problems with people like you using your SS checks to buy Geritol, Depends, and Viagra.

lol 😀

Hey now, don't leave my smiley off my quote, or some of the more 'intellectually dishonest' members here may assume I was being serious and actually hate all people over 50. :roll:


edit: Oops, too late.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Would it make you anny happier if the government gave the money to the parents and they paid the schools instead?

No. Because I look at the whole picture.

The govenment is merely acting as a payment proxy for the parents. This is not any comingling of church and state.

No, the parents are the proxy of the government. The funds are coming from the government.

Listen, if you advocated a system with no public education and no taxation for education and people spent their money on religious education, I would say it's their choice. However, as long as the funds are coming from the government purse, there's a mixing.

Then by your own logic you'll have to admit to my previous statement that government employess should not be able to send their children to religious schools. Same for private businesses that make their money contracting with the government.

Or don't you want to look at the "whole picture" in that particular case?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Hey now, don't leave my smiley off my quote, or some of the more 'intellectually dishonest' members here may assume I was being serious and actually hate all people over 50. :roll:


edit: Oops, too late.

:roll: There are people here that do and that post exactly the same stuff and are serious. If you weren't serious, fine. No need to get all high and mighty about it. I even added used the word "assume." But hey, whatever keeps you on your high horse.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hell lets just make those with school age children pay taxes for school and the rest of us who don't have any little bastards of our own can use that money for our retirement. If that was the case I wouldn't have any problems with people like Rip using vouchers so his little snot gobblers can get a religious education.

Sure, as soon as we let you old farts pay for your own retirement, while us young workers get to invest our SS money where we want. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any problems with people like you using your SS checks to buy Geritol, Depends, and Viagra.

😉

Most of us do pay for our own retirement (you should too) SS is just a supplement so we can go on vacations, get drunk at Bingo and pay for hookers (thus the need for viagra). America, what a great country! Unbfortunately I still have a long time before I can collect any SS and by that time you youngsters will have spent it all on stupid BS like going to war in sh!tholes like Iraq.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Then by your own logic you'll have to admit to my previous statement that government employess should not be able to send their children to religious schools.

No. I don't. Again, you can go to absurd extremes but it's not useful. We could also say a person who buys a candybar from a grocer, who later uses the cash to buy a stereo from a guy who gives the cash to a terrorist is supporting terrorism. That's stretching the causal chain too far.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hell lets just make those with school age children pay taxes for school and the rest of us who don't have any little bastards of our own can use that money for our retirement. If that was the case I wouldn't have any problems with people like Rip using vouchers so his little snot gobblers can get a religious education.

Sure, as soon as we let you old farts pay for your own retirement, while us young workers get to invest our SS money where we want. If that was the case, I wouldn't have any problems with people like you using your SS checks to buy Geritol, Depends, and Viagra.

😉

Most of us do pay for our own retirement (you should too) SS is just a supplement so we can go on vacations, get drunk at Bingo and pay for hookers (thus the need for viagra). America, what a great country! Unbfortunately I still have a long time before I can collect any SS and by that time you youngsters will have spent it all on stupid BS like going to war in sh!tholes like Iraq.

Ain't America grand?

*tugs your beard*

 

[tec699]

A quality public education comes down to one issue: MONEY! Public schools in money districts do very well. The parents are well educated. They make a great income and they have a vested interest in their child?s education. Over 95% of the student body will attend college. All of the students have laptops.

Go to a poor district and it's an entirely different matter. The parents aren't interested in their child?s academic work, the parents don't attend parent/teacher conferences, they abuse drugs and alcohol, the children live in sh*t holes, etc? Drug dealers are on every street corner. Hell I remember hearing about a 7-year-old kid that was acting as a drug runner for his older brother! 7 years old! The list goes on and on. The private sector is going to fix these deep social issues? Yea, sure.

Riporin if you think you can make a difference then please go teach in the inner district. You'll be greeted with a "f*ck you" and "Teacher I make more money selling dope in one day than you make in a week." Hell I've seen papers in a student's book bag that hadn't been touched in weeks! The parent didn't give a sh*t and you know what the student?s response was when this was brought up? "I can do what I want and if you do anything my mom will sue the school!"

The public schools in the poor districts can only do so much. Where is the blame at when it comes to bad parenting? Why should educators have to be blamed for every god damn academic issue? Are their bad teachers? YES! Are their bad public schools? YES! However, to state that every public school is bad and is under performing academically is ludicrous. Look at the community and you'll find a lot of the academic issues first happen at home. No amount of private intervention is going to change the mindset of these people.


Btw? the charter schools in NJ are an absolute failure. They have under performed time and time again. Their scores are awful and are continuously at the bottom of the list. The public schools in NJ are vastly improving in key areas but math is still a sore spot.

Finally, I had an awful public school experience. I?m not going to get into the details but my public school experience wasn?t pleasant. I had some serious academic issues coming out of high school and college has been very hard for me.

I also like the No Child Left Behind Act as well.

🙂

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: tec699
A quality public education comes down to one issue: MONEY! Public schools in money districts do very well. The parents are well educated. They make a great income and they have a vested interest in their child?s education. Over 95% of the student body will attend college. All of the students have laptops.

Go to a poor district and it's an entirely different matter. The parents aren't interested in their child?s academic work, the parents don't attend parent/teacher conferences, they abuse drugs and alcohol, the children live in sh*t holes, etc? Drug dealers are on every street corner. Hell I remember hearing about a 7-year-old kid that was acting as a drug runner for his older brother! 7 years old! The list goes on and on. The private sector is going to fix these deep social issues? Yea, sure.

Riporin if you think you can make a difference then please go teach in the inner district. You'll be greeted with a "f*ck you" and "Teacher I make more money selling dope in one day than you make in a week." Hell I've seen papers in a student's book bag that hadn't been touched in weeks! The parent didn't give a sh*t and you know what the student?s response was when this was brought up? "I can do what I want and if you do anything my mom will sue the school!"

The public schools in the poor districts can only do so much. Where is the blame at when it comes to bad parenting? Why should educators have to be blamed for every god damn academic issue? Are their bad teachers? YES! Are their bad public schools? YES! However, to state that every public school is bad and is under performing academically is ludicrous. Look at the community and you'll find a lot of the academic issues first happen at home. No amount of private intervention is going to change the mindset of these people.


Btw? the charter schools in NJ are an absolute failure. They have under performed time and time again. Their scores are awful and are continuously at the bottom of the list. The public schools in NJ are vastly improving in key areas but math is still a sore spot.

Finally, I had an awful public school experience. I?m not going to get into the details but my public school experience wasn?t pleasant. I had some serious academic issues coming out of high school and college has been very hard for me.

I also like the No Child Left Behind Act as well.

🙂

Anecdotal 'evidence' is best left in ATOT's YAGTs. Scurry back there, before you get bit. 🙂

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: tec699
A quality public education comes down to one issue: MONEY! Public schools in money districts do very well. The parents are well educated. They make a great income and they have a vested interest in their child?s education. Over 95% of the student body will attend college. All of the students have laptops.

Go to a poor district and it's an entirely different matter. The parents aren't interested in their child?s academic work, the parents don't attend parent/teacher conferences, they abuse drugs and alcohol, the children live in sh*t holes, etc? Drug dealers are on every street corner. Hell I remember hearing about a 7-year-old kid that was acting as a drug runner for his older brother! 7 years old! The list goes on and on. The private sector is going to fix these deep social issues? Yea, sure.

Riporin if you think you can make a difference then please go teach in the inner district. You'll be greeted with a "f*ck you" and "Teacher I make more money selling dope in one day than you make in a week." Hell I've seen papers in a student's book bag that hadn't been touched in weeks! The parent didn't give a sh*t and you know what the student?s response was when this was brought up? "I can do what I want and if you do anything my mom will sue the school!"

The public schools in the poor districts can only do so much. Where is the blame at when it comes to bad parenting? Why should educators have to be blamed for every god damn academic issue? Are their bad teachers? YES! Are their bad public schools? YES! However, to state that every public school is bad and is under performing academically is ludicrous. Look at the community and you'll find a lot of the academic issues first happen at home. No amount of private intervention is going to change the mindset of these people.


Btw? the charter schools in NJ are an absolute failure. They have under performed time and time again. Their scores are awful and are continuously at the bottom of the list. The public schools in NJ are vastly improving in key areas but math is still a sore spot.

Finally, I had an awful public school experience. I?m not going to get into the details but my public school experience wasn?t pleasant. I had some serious academic issues coming out of high school and college has been very hard for me.

I also like the No Child Left Behind Act as well.

🙂

Anecdotal 'evidence' is best left in ATOT's YAGTs. Scurry back there, before you get bit. 🙂

Have you been to an inner city school lately? Thought so.

I have. your opinion is mute. :disgust:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: tec699

Have you been to an inner city school lately? Thought so.

I have. your opinion is mute. :disgust:

LMAO! (wait, you probably can't even hear me laughing, as my opinion is "mute")

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: tec699
A quality public education comes down to one issue: MONEY! Public schools in money districts do very well. The parents are well educated. They make a great income and they have a vested interest in their child?s education. Over 95% of the student body will attend college. All of the students have laptops.

Go to a poor district and it's an entirely different matter. The parents aren't interested in their child?s academic work, the parents don't attend parent/teacher conferences, they abuse drugs and alcohol, the children live in sh*t holes, etc? Drug dealers are on every street corner. Hell I remember hearing about a 7-year-old kid that was acting as a drug runner for his older brother! 7 years old! The list goes on and on. The private sector is going to fix these deep social issues? Yea, sure.

Riporin if you think you can make a difference then please go teach in the inner district. You'll be greeted with a "f*ck you" and "Teacher I make more money selling dope in one day than you make in a week." Hell I've seen papers in a student's book bag that hadn't been touched in weeks! The parent didn't give a sh*t and you know what the student?s response was when this was brought up? "I can do what I want and if you do anything my mom will sue the school!"

The public schools in the poor districts can only do so much. Where is the blame at when it comes to bad parenting? Why should educators have to be blamed for every god damn academic issue? Are their bad teachers? YES! Are their bad public schools? YES! However, to state that every public school is bad and is under performing academically is ludicrous. Look at the community and you'll find a lot of the academic issues first happen at home. No amount of private intervention is going to change the mindset of these people.


Btw? the charter schools in NJ are an absolute failure. They have under performed time and time again. Their scores are awful and are continuously at the bottom of the list. The public schools in NJ are vastly improving in key areas but math is still a sore spot.

Finally, I had an awful public school experience. I?m not going to get into the details but my public school experience wasn?t pleasant. I had some serious academic issues coming out of high school and college has been very hard for me.

I also like the No Child Left Behind Act as well.

🙂

A quality public education comes down to one issue: MONEY!

That's ridiculous. Given the same demographic, parochial schools outperform public schools at a fraction of the cost.

 

[nageov3t]

it's not like private school is some magic wand... at least in my experience, part of the reasons private education can be so much better than public education is because they have the capacity to deny any student entry, expel students who are causing problems or underperforming, and generally speaking, parents who are willing to pay 15K/year for their child's grammer or high school education are also a lot more likely to push the child to excel in school.

 

[Riprorin]

I pay about 4K per child for elementary school.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I pay about 4K per child for elementary school.

lucky 😉

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I pay about 4K per child for elementary school.

lucky 😉

I just looked at the check book. Actually it's about $3,750 per child (there's a discount for two children).

The tuition at my kids' school is more expensive than other parochial schools in the area because it isn't associated with a church.

High school ramps up to about $7 - $8K/yr.