umbrella39
Lifer
Bingo. They want it best of both worlds and want to bitch about it like having to pay SS. Boo Hoo.
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The nations only statewide school voucher program faces legal showdown
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Bingo. They want it best of both worlds and want to bitch about it like having to pay SS. Boo Hoo.
gsaldivar
Diamond Member
Does your supermarket carry regular or organic vegetables? My guess would be the latter. That's one reason why I oppose state/federal fax return money being used in supermarkets.
Ridiculous? Of course it is...
HINT: Tax returns & public education are funded with YOUR OWN MONEY.
Why should I have any right dictating where you spend your tax return money?
Why should you have any right dictating where I spend my child's fair share of public education money?
umbrella39
Lifer
If you're oppsed to public school, then don't send your child to one but quite yer b!tching about having to pay taxes for public schools or thinking that vochures are the solution and your "free pass". So should all people who don't have children have to pay school taxes. They certainly don't benefit from it. So the only people who should be taxed are people who currently have kids in public schools.
See the difference in you and a normal person is this:
Even after my kids have left public school, I don't feel I should be entitled to opt out of paying school taxes. Nor do I ever think any of my money should go to funding private school. The whole "private" thing makes me want to flip them the bird when I hear the word vouchers.
You on the other hand think that simply because you can afford to send your children to private schools you should have special privledges.
Bahhahhahahahaha. Priceless. Typical Bush Fanboi/Neocon
The problem is the school's (for lack of a better term) marginal cost of a single student is slim. Much of the districts' costs are fixed. By not paying your property taxes, the district loses say $5000 of revenue. But (at least if they want to be a good district) they still have to hire the same number of teachers, maintain a similar busing system, and maintain the same sized building, only they have to do that with $5k less of money.
Natural selection already works, at least in the state of New Jersey. Schools in wealthier districts tend to have harder working students and better parental involvement, and the students flourish. The opposite happens in poorer districts, the data can be found in the yearly star ledger newspaper. You get out what you put into it. If you want better use of your tax dollars, move to a wealthier area. I lived in one, the average SAT score here was in the 1200s. The school environment was by all measures satisfactory for any student to do well.
Vouchers are ideal, but financially they simply don't work on the scale you suggest. The argument about vouchers and religious vs nonreligious private schools is ridiculous, but thats another issue.
Obviously when buying a house it is your responsibility to find out which district you belong to. I live in such an area, my street address is in 1 town, but my school district is part of another town. But pricing reflects that, as my school district is inferior, real estate value and taxes are lower where I live than half a mile down the road, where the zone changes.
You are one taxpayer. There are quite a few of them out there though, and you don't get to spend their money. If you think the money you are putting in constitutes "your child's fair share"... you'd be very much mistaken. The money is actually collected from all over the place, and from people with children and those without alike. They pay to maintain unbiased and balanced public schools that serve the general public interest, rather than the interests of a certain portion of the public.
umbrella39
Lifer
the "______ school is better than _____ school" stuff is hilarious.
Kids determine their own education. if they learn that's really their choice. you can get a great education at a "crappy" school, just pay attention. In addition, often the kids make the school as much as the school makes the kids......i'll explain:
Usually, kids with richer parents perform better. Fact, at least in my experience. Richer parents are the ones sending their kids to private schools. this is another FACT for obvious reasons; poor parents won't pay extra $1000's that thye can't afford. So often a person might say "but private school outperform_____school district" but it is really the students, not the school itself. Take a bunch of F students from a public school and stick them in a private one and guess what, you won't find a huge turnaround.
I favor public education on the basis of the teachers needing a set amount of qualifications. Private schools don't have that framework. If you want your kid to learn from a whackjob (not saying all private school teachers are unqualified or whatever, just that the chance is far higher than a public school) rather than a qualified teacher, so be it, but pay for it yourself....
Kids determine their own education. if they learn that's really their choice. you can get a great education at a "crappy" school, just pay attention. In addition, often the kids make the school as much as the school makes the kids......i'll explain:
Usually, kids with richer parents perform better. Fact, at least in my experience. Richer parents are the ones sending their kids to private schools. this is another FACT for obvious reasons; poor parents won't pay extra $1000's that thye can't afford. So often a person might say "but private school outperform_____school district" but it is really the students, not the school itself. Take a bunch of F students from a public school and stick them in a private one and guess what, you won't find a huge turnaround.
I favor public education on the basis of the teachers needing a set amount of qualifications. Private schools don't have that framework. If you want your kid to learn from a whackjob (not saying all private school teachers are unqualified or whatever, just that the chance is far higher than a public school) rather than a qualified teacher, so be it, but pay for it yourself....
umbrella39
Lifer
Woo hoo. Kill them babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kind of ironic that the fundie, better than thou righties keep trying to weasel their way out of paying their fair share.
What is next, going to try and stop paying taxes on the roads that you don't drive on since your neighborhood is paved in gold? Why should you have to help foot that bill either? So if you take your trash to the dump every week as opposed to having the garbage men pick it up, you don't want to have to pay for that either, right?
ELITIST
Great troll :roll: . But it would actually be an applicable analogy to compare not wanting to FUND "killing babies"( :roll: ) vs not wanting to fund private education. And I remember your thread a while back about needing more regulation (therefore more $$) put into abortion. oh the irony.
umbrella39
Lifer
As long as it doesnt discriminate against religions, it is not wrong. If it allows a jewish person to go to a private jewish school, a christian to a private christian school, a muslim to a private islamic school, etc etc its perfectly fine and more than constitutional. The constitution is freedom of religion, not from religion, as long as it allows religious freedom it is fine.
gsaldivar
Diamond Member
I agree with your interpretation of the cost structure. There is, of course, a fixed- and variable-cost component to the total cost of a student's education. Greatly simplified, the fixed costs would include the brick & mortar of the school itself. The variable costs are the teachers, buses, lunches, etc.
I submit that the fixed cost of a student's education, while substantial for each individual school, is a relatively SMALL part of the total cost of an individual student's education. The majority of each student's cost of education is the variable, "human cost" - the teachers, tutors, principal, staff, buses, lunches, etc. etc.
Your argument is valid in that when large numbers of students disenroll from a given school, the fixed costs of operating that school would increase to the point of making that school less effective than it otherwise would be. However, the majority of the variable "human costs" of running a school are quite easily altered - in fact, most schools adjust their bus routes, teachers, staff, etc. each school year, and some more frequently than that, to adapt to changing enrollment needs.
Therefore, I'd have no objections to EXCLUDING the fixed costs of public education from the school voucher program.
Strawman. Supermarkets typically aren't funded with tax money, nor is the regular vs. organic issue equivalent to the secular vs. religious school debate.
On the whole tax issue - you don't get it. Its not MY money or YOUR money, it is OUR money. And we, as a community or a country, decide how to use it collectively. That's one of the purposes of government. In our governing document, it is written that the government shall not establish religion. Some argue, myself included, that giving money to religious schools is an endorsement of religion.
Anyway, if its MY money, why can't I tell the IRS to give my money to support alternative energy research and higher eduction funding, instead of funding this stupid war and the associated fat cats?
See thats were you get all illogical again...
See these vouchers are legal, because they dont discriminate against religions. They also happened to be passed by the Florida legislature and signed into law being widely supported throughout the state. The building of churchs and the paying for a private schools tution are hugely different. One is passed in a legal and democratic way, supported by the people, where as the other one will never be passed in any way shape or form.
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