The Motorcyclist and the Librarian

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Motorcyclist should face some sort of charge. They aren't free of liability. By report no one was even hurt from the alleged car incident.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
It doesn't sound like they were trying to take law enforcement into their own hands. They followed her on public streets after she fled an accident she caused, while they waited for the police. She came out and threatened them, while I assume they were still on public streets. I think this is self defense.

If they had confronted her or tried to detain her, I would have a different opinion.

But this is another gun owner killed because if their gun ownership, if she didn't have a metal dick she wouldn't have came out making threats


Well thank god the people who used their gun killed the other person otherwise we might of had a different side to the story.

If you don’t see the a problem with this type of outcome then you aren’t looking at the big picture.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
14,484
146
Look she fled the “accident”
He trespassed
She feared for her life
He feared for his
They both were armed


Per conservative legal doctrine he was left standing so he’s not guilty. If she was left standing she would be the one who was not guilty.

Remember we live in a free society and to conservatives the means being free from the consequences of your actions - even killing people.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Look she fled the “accident”
He trespassed
She feared for her life
He feared for his
They both were armed


Per conservative legal doctrine he was left standing so he’s not guilty. If she was left standing she would be the one who was not guilty.

Remember we live in a free society and to conservatives the means being free from the consequences of your actions - even killing people.
Bingo. You can't have it where neither side can be blamed. If she survived no charges. If he survived no charges. If that is actually true, then basically society is sanctioning this sort of shooting as being acceptable and tolerable because it violates no laws or statutes when we all know it's really not acceptable. One hundred percent agree with you. The laws need to change.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
You are totally taking the side of the people who now have no witness as gospel. You can stand your ground on your property, she had every right to tell them to get off according to the society of non stop gun violence the right wants to create
The article never said they were on her property. You have no right to defend the public right of way in any state.

Regardless, stay inside and call the police. Have your gun ready if you think they are actually a threat. Or, if you actually think they are a threat, don't drive to your house while being followed.

I've been in a hit and run before, first thing the police asked was "are you following them?" "No" "Well we can't really do anything then."
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
Well thank god the people who used their gun killed the other person otherwise we might of had a different side to the story.

If you don’t see the a problem with this type of outcome then you aren’t looking at the big picture.
She was threatening them with a gun, too. The problem was everyone having metal penis enhancers. If she wanted people to hear her side of the story she should've called the police as opposed to threatening people with a gun on a public street.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
Look she fled the “accident”
He trespassed
She feared for her life
He feared for his
They both were armed


Per conservative legal doctrine he was left standing so he’s not guilty. If she was left standing she would be the one who was not guilty.

Remember we live in a free society and to conservatives the means being free from the consequences of your actions - even killing people.
She left the area, then came back with a gun, and threaten him on a public street. I think this violates standing your ground requirements even in Florida. Also he wasn't trespassing, he was on the public right of way.

According to police, Morales went inside, returned with a gun and a confrontation occurred in the road.

I agree self defense laws have gone nuts in this country, but I think she would've had a hard time claiming it if she had shot them.

 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,081
21,202
136
The article never said they were on her property. You have no right to defend the public right of way in any state.

Regardless, stay inside and call the police. Have your gun ready if you think they are actually a threat. Or, if you actually think they are a threat, don't drive to your house while being followed.

I've been in a hit and run before, first thing the police asked was "are you following them?" "No" "Well we can't really do anything then."
The article only tells a side of the story we have no idea where it's coming from. The people that chased her there? Did she really run out of her house and onto public property and threaten them? It just says she came out of her house with a gun. You are making a lot of assumptions. Crazy.

The fact you are taking this story as is and happily digesting it is highly disturbing.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,424
136
She was threatening them with a gun, too. The problem was everyone having metal penis enhancers. If she wanted people to hear her side of the story she should've called the police as opposed to threatening people with a gun on a public street.


It doesn’t matter. If she felt threatened and shot and killed then would the kill have been justified? Well considering we wouldn’t have their side of the story the answer is yes.

Nether situation is acceptable nor should it allowed in a free society such as ours.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
The article only tells a side of the story we have no idea where it's coming from. The people that chased her there? Did she really run out of her house and onto public property and threaten them? It just says she came out of her house with a gun. You are making a lot of assumptions. Crazy.

The fact you are taking this story as is and happily digesting it is highly disturbing.
According to police, Morales went inside, returned with a gun and a confrontation occurred in the road.

Please show me where in Florida law you have the right to defend the public road in front of you house. Or how stand you ground applied when you have left and then returned.

I don't know what happened, outside of what is in the article and I expect the police to investigate and bring charges as required. But as presented in the article right now, it sounds like self defense. That doesn't mean I think the bikers should've been sitting outside her house, but they had every legal right to do so.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
It doesn’t matter. If she felt threatened and shot and killed then would the kill have been justified? Well considering we wouldn’t have their side of the story the answer is yes.

Nether situation is acceptable nor should it allowed in a free society such as ours.
Again, the problem is everyone having a gun. If none these people had a gun, this would be a significantly different story. But if someone is threatening you with a gun, you should have the right to defend yourself.

The burden of proof is also very high in this country, so she likely wouldn't be convicted, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't have been in the wrong based on the tiny bit of information out there right now. If she said "I went into the house, got my gun, came out to the public street and threatened them" she'd almost definitely be charged.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,081
21,202
136
At this point, we don't know if there were a dozen, if any of them were angry bikers, or if anyone was on her lawn.
We also have no idea what happened on the side of those who followed her home, when apparently it seems nobody was hurt, but you already seem to think it's a clean shoot. Craziness.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,797
4,983
136
3 months and that's it? Self defense or not, he should be charged with 2 counts of manslaughter
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,730
28,908
136
Just a casual read, if this woman cased an accident following her home is allowed as long as they don't go on her property. Once she comes out of the house with a gun she becomes the aggressor.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,119
10,943
136
Unless she felt in fear and was thinking she had to defend herself and home.

They really should have waited a few houses away for officers to arrive.
Why go outside your home? If we take the "castle" part of "castle doctrine" literally, being outside the castle walls is not good a defensive strategy.

If someone busts in your door, then you have every reason to protect yourself and your home.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,089
136
Motorist fled the scene of an accident.
Was followed home and the motorist entered the premises.
Witnesses waited in the street for police to arrive.
Motorists then exited her home and pointed a weapon at individuals in the street.
One individual pulled his weapon and fired at the the motorist who brandished the weapon.

Seems pretty simple to me.
 
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Nov 17, 2019
12,259
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^^ Do we know that? All we have is the news reports of what one side claimed. The mother in the house seems to tell a different story, but how credible is she?

This is one of those cases where we, the general public may never know exactly what happened.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
More, both sides.

Yet another case where access to guns made the situation worse for all involved. If she didn't have a gun she probably wouldn't have gone home and came out with it. If the biker didn't have a gun, he probably wouldn't have have been a dick in the first place.

Based on laws in Florida, I'm guessing either person could've claimed self defense.

The Mom running out with an unloaded gun is just stupidity to the extreme too.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
Just a casual read, if this woman cased an accident following her home is allowed as long as they don't go on her property. Once she comes out of the house with a gun she becomes the aggressor.
Slightly more complicated than that, because the biker started being a dick after she swerved towards him but didn't hit him. He then refused to move off her side and was yelling at her. She then decided to purposely hit him with her car. Responding to road rage with assault with a deadly weapon.

The biker should be charged with something for his bit of road rage, but I'm guessing that would reckless driving at most.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
136
Just a casual read, if this woman cased an accident following her home is allowed as long as they don't go on her property. Once she comes out of the house with a gun she becomes the aggressor.

Exactly!
She was the aggressor on the highway with her 3,000 pound weapon (the KIA), and raised the level when she came out of her home with another weapon.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,960
8,191
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Yet another case where access to guns made the situation worse for all involved. If she didn't have a gun she probably wouldn't have gone home and came out with it. If the biker didn't have a gun, he probably would've have been a dick in the first place.

Based on laws in Florida, I'm guessing either person could've claimed self defense.

The Mom running out with an unloaded gun is just stupidity to the extreme too.
The bolded part bothers me...

First, why is a dick, he was a victim of this woman on the highway. Because he rides a motorcycle? Exactly what?

Second, if he didn't have a gun, he might be dead, again the victim of this woman who thinks hit-and-run is OK, and pointing a gun at someone is OK.
 
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