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The Motorcyclist and the Librarian

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
4,902
2,616
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I can't make up my mind here.

Road rage.

She caused a wreck and fled. She was wrong.

Cyclist and witnesses folloewed her while calling police. OK, so far.

She gets home and goes inside. This is where it gets murky.

She come out with a gun and ends up getting shot.

They say she was the aggressor. Was she? If someone followed you home and you were in fear of your life, what would you do?

Me, I'd stay inside and call for help if I could. But then if I knew I had fled an accident and could be arrested ... hmmmm....

But what did the others do when they got to her house? If I were one of them, I'd have stayed clear of the house by quite a distance and directed police to it. I would not have approached where I might be seen as a threat.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,071
10,602
136
Whether or not she was directly involved in some crime, we cannot allow non law enforcement, aka citizens to take the law into their own hands and kill people. In a free society this is completely unacceptable.

Where this leads is not a good place for anyone.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,871
4,031
136
Sounds like she was a complete asshole, fucked around, and found out.

Motorcycles are very exposed, and if she was driving aggressively, so much that she caused a collision, she could have seriously injured or killed the rider.

Bad enough, but she flees the scene to run home to get a gun, threatens people with it, but loses the battle. If she shot the rider, she woke have been charged with multiple felonies. Reasonable people would have followed a hit and run driver.

Being a pregnant woman is sympathetic and sad for the baby, but she sounds completely out of control, and thankfully didn't kill anyone else.
 

rmacd02

Senior member
Nov 24, 2015
220
212
116
Whether or not she was directly involved in some crime, we cannot allow non law enforcement, aka citizens to take the law into their own hands and kill people. In a free society this is completely unacceptable.

Where this leads is not a good place for anyone.
Citizens definitely shouldn't take the law into their own hands. These guys only followed her after a hit and run. The article states that she came out with a gun pointed at the motorcyclist. This looks like self defense to me.

I am not a lawyer, just a layman's opinion.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,604
10,516
136
Why would she come out pointing a gun? Who were these witnesses? What's the whole story?

We'll never know the whole story because American gun fetisists and the gun industry have corrupted our society to the core.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,985
13,952
126
Curious what use knowing she was a librarian has.
Most civilizations value people based on their occupation. As such, news outlets typically identify people based on their profession.
Having said that, when I die, I seriously doubt anyone will refer to me as an electronics technician. Most likely they will call me a veteran and maybe somebody might refer to me as a sailor, but its doubtful.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
4,902
2,616
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Bad enough, but she flees the scene to run home to get a gun, ....
Do we know that? We know she fled the scene and went home. But do we know her intent was to get a gun and come back on the attack?

Or did she only come out with a gun after seeing an angry crowd following her and she felt threatened by them?
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
10,474
3,482
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Do we know that? We know she fled the scene and went home. But do we know her intent was to get a gun and come back on the attack?

Or did she only come out with a gun after seeing an angry crowd following her and she felt threatened by them?

So, an angry crowd is assembling in the street outside your house and your first inclination is to arm yourself and confront them? Instead of staying inside, locking the doors, and calling the police?

Really?
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,985
13,952
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So, an angry crowd is assembling in the street outside your house and your first inclination is to arm yourself and confront them? Instead of staying inside, locking the doors, and calling the police?

Really?
Yeah I'd have called the cops first THEN grabbed a gun and hid out in my basement. She wasnt smart, and she was also in a panic.
Having said that, I do NOT believe the bikers panicked. They chased her down, which makes them the aggressors after the collision. And if the last several court cases are any indication, they will probably be able to declare self-defense and get away with it.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
10,474
3,482
136
Chased her down while talking with the cops on the phone. Yeah, that's aggressive. Following someone who, according to the article in the OP, intentionally hit a motorcyclist and fled.

But we should wait for more details, like if the "crowd" tried to storm her house....if that's the case, then that's vastly different than a "crowd" talking to the cops/911/authorities about someone who just tried to commit murder and fled to her abode. If there wasn't anyone on her property, merely waiting on the street for the cops to arrive, then she had no real reason to confront. Just stay the hell in her house, also call the police, and hunker down. Haven't seen any reporting that the motorcyclist or anyone else who followed her after her attempted murder tried to storm her house.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
21,667
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126
Has any of this (beyond her having been shot and dying and the motorcyclists at her house) been confirmed? Even the accident or collision they claim?

There's some major asshole motorcyclists out there, and especially in groups they're prone to being total fucking dickheads. How many stories do we see of such where they attack a person because they get pissy after they drive like assholes around a car? Hell wasn't there just a story of a group of them beating like an 82 year old man? Anyone remember that video from years back when that motorcycle gang harassed a family in an SUV including hitting it and brake checking it (wherein the SUV just hit them and tried to get away) followed by them chasing the SUV down and then beat the man almost to death? Some of them were undercover NYPD too.

Its not just motorcyclists either, I see the same asswipe behavior in car clubs where they get together, drive like assholes, then when they almost cause a collision get pissy and start harassing someone while acting like they did nothing wrong. Hell, my sister's asswipe boyfriend used to follow cars that he got mad at even though he was driving like a dickhead all the time.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,604
10,516
136
Has any of this been confirmed? Even the accident or collision they claim?

There's some major asshole motorcyclists out there, and especially in groups they're prone to being total fucking dickheads. How many stories do we see of such where they attack a person because they get pissy after they drive like assholes around a car? Hell wasn't there just a story of a group of them beating like an 82 year old man?

Its not just motorcyclists either, I see the same asswipe behavior in car clubs where they get together, drive like assholes, then when they almost cause a collision get pissy and start harassing someone while acting like they did nothing wrong.
Exactly, if all the witnesses were all the guys riding motorcycles, who knows the real story? Often groups of riders, whether in cars or motorcycles, from all walks of life, act like dicks. Maybe she was scared shitless for a reason and panicked. If she was on her property she could stand her ground right? But now it's self-defense for the people that came to her property? I mean it all gets so murky but when you want everyone to have guns and use them, this is what you get. A right wing paradise of shootings all the time at any given place.

Because America is a gun lunatic land, we'll probably never know what really happened.
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,667
3,791
126
Exactly, if all the witnesses were all the guys riding motorcycles, who knows the real story? Often groups of riders, whether in cars or motorcycles, from all walks of life, act like dicks. Maybe she was scared shitless for a reason and panicked. If she was on her property she could stand her ground right? But now it's self-defense for the people that came to her property? I mean it all gets so murky but when you want everyone to have guns and use them, this is what you get. A right wing paradise of shootings all the time at any given place.

Because America is a gun lunatic land, we'll probably never know what really happened.
Could not agree more. Hopefully there is some video that gives more insight.

Of the story as I've seen it in various articles, the only part I'd likely be ok with is them following her after a hit and run. But even then, find where she goes, make sure you get license plate and contact police. Stay in the area if you want, and provide witness testimony as well as any other hard evidence (video, proof of damage to one of their bikes or persons). But definitely don't escalate the situation by confronting her. I mean, are they surprised that after a group of them follow her home and confront her she goes and gets a gun? Which, I don't agree with her confronting them either. And if she did hit them, even if they were driving like dicks, that's not ok. Seems like shitty behavior and mentality all around.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,789
4,881
136
Whether or not she was directly involved in some crime, we cannot allow non law enforcement, aka citizens to take the law into their own hands and kill people. In a free society this is completely unacceptable.

Where this leads is not a good place for anyone.
It doesn't sound like they were trying to take law enforcement into their own hands. They followed her on public streets after she fled an accident she caused, while they waited for the police. She came out and threatened them, while I assume they were still on public streets. I think this is self defense.

If they had confronted her or tried to detain her, I would have a different opinion.

But this is another gun owner killed because if their gun ownership, if she didn't have a metal dick she wouldn't have came out making threats
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,985
13,952
126
It doesn't sound like they were trying to take law enforcement into their own hands. They followed her on public streets after she fled an accident she caused, while they waited for the police. She came out and threatened them, while I assume they were still on public streets. I think this is self defense.

If they had confronted her or tried to detain her, I would have a different opinion.

But this is another gun owner killed because if their gun ownership, if she didn't have a metal dick she wouldn't have came out making threats
Yeah but if you saw a dozen angry bikers on your lawn and you knew exactly why they were angry you might panic too.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
13,604
10,516
136
It doesn't sound like they were trying to take law enforcement into their own hands. They followed her on public streets after she fled an accident she caused, while they waited for the police. She came out and threatened them, while I assume they were still on public streets. I think this is self defense.

If they had confronted her or tried to detain her, I would have a different opinion.

But this is another gun owner killed because if their gun ownership, if she didn't have a metal dick she wouldn't have came out making threats
You are totally taking the side of the people who now have no witness as gospel. You can stand your ground on your property, she had every right to tell them to get off according to the society of non stop gun violence the right wants to create
 
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dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,556
167
106
You are totally taking the side of the people who now have no witness as gospel. You can stand your ground on your property, she had every right to tell them to get off according to the society of non stop gun violence the right wants to create
completely wrong
 

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