The more that I think about theoretical physics, the sadder I become

[myusername]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I guess the discussion is over? Maybe AT is going down the tubes, an interesting discussion and hardly anyone replies. Let's add some pictures of girls or something to this thread.

If it's any consolation, I find this fascinating to read, but I don't have anything worthwhile to add to the conversation.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: badmouse

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
Spontaneously generated, we mean nothing. Just a natural formation of chemicals, no wonder man created a God to give us a meaningful purpose.

That's quite a stretch. Maybe God is a natural formation of chemicals and He/She created people to give Him/Her a meaningful purpose.

Me, I like theoretical physics. It's loony. Love the silly names for tiny bits - quarks, mesons, and so on. Love the strange theories like Schroedinger's cat and the Butterfly effect. String theory? What are those physicists smoking? Etc. It's fun.

String theory is basically a derivative of brane theory nowadays.

A lot of math goes into trying to balance the equations for string theory.

But theoretical physics makes me sad too because it seems to point to the universe not being able to support life indefinitely. At least when it gets to Astrophysics.

If a higher being were to step in and recreate a "perfect" universe later on, there would be a difference.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, do they? After you've done all that, and human civilization has come and gone, the sun becomes a red giant, then a white dwarf, and then a black hole, and the solar system collapses into it, which is just a marker in the timeline of the universe... does it really matter that we nuked the Arabs?

First of all, our sun will not form a black hole it is too small. Our sun is destined to become a red dwarf.

Here is the thing to think about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you take a step forward the Earth move a little in the opposite direction, and not only that, but the sun moves a little also, as does the galaxy, and then the galactic cluster. Eventually your decision to take a step forward changes the course of every atom in the entire universe. And you say physics tells us that our actions don?t matter.
Edit - Forgot to mention that that action will reverberate thoughout the universe forever, even when our sun is stone cold and the earth is no more your decision to take a step forward will be changing the universe.

 

[Triumph]

I guess theoretically that is true, every action has a reaction, and what i do may effect the vast universe by some immesurable amount. But even then, does it really matter that I've affected the universe?

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: BSEagle1
I don't see why you should be sad. Life is what you make it. You are only meaningless if you let yourself be, and think of yourself as such.

Sounds a lot like Scientology

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I guess theoretically that is true, every action has a reaction, and what i do may effect the vast universe by some immesurable amount. But even then, does it really matter that I've affected the universe?

I guess that matters on what you mean by 'does it really matter'
What standards are you going by? I can't imagine a standard so high that it would discount changing the entire univerise with your every decision as meaningless.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, do they? After you've done all that, and human civilization has come and gone, the sun becomes a red giant, then a white dwarf, and then a black hole, and the solar system collapses into it, which is just a marker in the timeline of the universe... does it really matter that we nuked the Arabs?

bFirst of all, our sun will not form a black hole it is too small. Our sun is destined to become a red dwarf.

Here is the thing to think about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you take a step forward the Earth move a little in the opposite direction, and not only that, but the sun moves a little also, as does the galaxy, and then the galactic cluster. Eventually your decision to take a step forward changes the course of every atom in the entire universe. And you say physics tells us that our actions don?t matter.
Edit - Forgot to mention that that action will reverberate thoughout the universe forever, even when our sun is stone cold and the earth is no more your decision to take a step forward will be changing the universe.

There are massive black holes that swallow up solar systems. They have found evidence of a few in this part of the Milky Way already. Over eons it will happen, just not caused by our sun.

 

[Crono]

I think Solomon said it best, as he was the richest and wisest guy who ever lived and tried everything (from sex to wine to knowledge to ruling to creating things to comedy to singing... pretty much everything available to enjoy):

1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 ? Vanity of vanities,? says the Preacher;
? Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.?
3 What profit has a man from all his labor
In which he toils under the sun?
4 One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever.
5 The sun also rises, and the sun goes down,
And hastens to the place where it arose.
6 The wind goes toward the south,
And turns around to the north;
The wind whirls about continually,
And comes again on its circuit.
7 All the rivers run into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full;
To the place from which the rivers come,
There they return again.
8 All things are full of labor;
Man cannot express it.
The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
Nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which it may be said,
? See, this is new??
It has already been in ancient times before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things,
Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come
By those who will come after. (Ecclesiastes 1:1-11 NKV)

Solomon's conclusion was that life "under the sun", without God, is pointless. The quote in my sig also applies. Sorry you feel sad, btw I'm sure your not the only one.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: panipoori
Yea i feel you man, makes me feel completely worthless knowing I am just a random formation of atoms. Why do anything when in the end all these atoms will break down to form something else?

You are part of something larger, even if it's only the natural eb and flow of the universe.
All of us are our own god and all of us are part of the same god.
Everything that happens in this universe is both completely and utterly insignificant and completely and wholly significant. Thus, you are worthless, but at the same time, a very vital piece of the puzzle.

I love theoretical phyics :

To the op:
You are only sad because you've only come to realise the first part of the entire picture, I can only imagine you to be in a very empty place. Ponder the issue further and keep in mind what I said above.

On your philisophical quest I can only give you one piece of advice: The fundamental truths of this universe are always paradoxes, thus, the opposite of a fundamental truth is also a fundamental truth.

Good luck my friend and may your quest lead to what you wish to find.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I guess theoretically that is true, every action has a reaction, and what i do may effect the vast universe by some immesurable amount. But even then, does it really matter that I've affected the universe?

Very much so and not at all.
You are going to do what you are going to do, there is nothing else for you to do.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, do they? After you've done all that, and human civilization has come and gone, the sun becomes a red giant, then a white dwarf, and then a black hole, and the solar system collapses into it, which is just a marker in the timeline of the universe... does it really matter that we nuked the Arabs?

bFirst of all, our sun will not form a black hole it is too small. Our sun is destined to become a red dwarf.

Here is the thing to think about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you take a step forward the Earth move a little in the opposite direction, and not only that, but the sun moves a little also, as does the galaxy, and then the galactic cluster. Eventually your decision to take a step forward changes the course of every atom in the entire universe. And you say physics tells us that our actions don?t matter.
Edit - Forgot to mention that that action will reverberate thoughout the universe forever, even when our sun is stone cold and the earth is no more your decision to take a step forward will be changing the universe.

There are massive black holes that swallow up solar systems. They have found evidence of a few in this part of the Milky Way already. Over eons it will happen, just not caused by our sun.

He's referring to the fact that our sun lacks the necessary size to ultimately form a black hole. I'm just winging it, I forget the stuff I learned in astrophysics, but given a stars radius and magnitude, you can figure out whether it will condense into a point of infinite density or expand and cool into nothingness. I don't remember the calculations.

 

[DrPizza]

MAYBE, it was originally just a ceiling light. The owner (or probably the owner's wife) was at the store and said, "hey, that's what I need - an exhaust fan!" Fan was purchased, owner was idiot and stuck it up there.

I've purchased a few exhaust fans, and I've purchased a few simple recessed light kits like that. I have yet to run across an exhaust fan *that doesn't already have a place to attach the vent hose to.*

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
MAYBE, it was originally just a ceiling light. The owner (or probably the owner's wife) was at the store and said, "hey, that's what I need - an exhaust fan!" Fan was purchased, owner was idiot and stuck it up there.

I've purchased a few exhaust fans, and I've purchased a few simple recessed light kits like that. I have yet to run across an exhaust fan *that doesn't already have a place to attach the vent hose to.*

Umm... I think you are in the wrong thread, I think you need to be here.

I just had to laugh, originally I thought you were talking about the sun.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: DrPizza
MAYBE, it was originally just a ceiling light. The owner (or probably the owner's wife) was at the store and said, "hey, that's what I need - an exhaust fan!" Fan was purchased, owner was idiot and stuck it up there.

I've purchased a few exhaust fans, and I've purchased a few simple recessed light kits like that. I have yet to run across an exhaust fan *that doesn't already have a place to attach the vent hose to.*

Umm... I think you are in the wrong thread, I think you need to be here.

lmao, I had to do a search. I was just thinking a second ago, "where the hell did my post go?!"

 

[arcenite]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
MAYBE, it was originally just a ceiling light. The owner (or probably the owner's wife) was at the store and said, "hey, that's what I need - an exhaust fan!" Fan was purchased, owner was idiot and stuck it up there.

I've purchased a few exhaust fans, and I've purchased a few simple recessed light kits like that. I have yet to run across an exhaust fan *that doesn't already have a place to attach the vent hose to.*

What the hell are you talking about

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
MAYBE, it was originally just a ceiling light. The owner (or probably the owner's wife) was at the store and said, "hey, that's what I need - an exhaust fan!" Fan was purchased, owner was idiot and stuck it up there...

...Now a few billion years later it is starting to get so covered in dust that it has started to shrink into an infinitesimal small point and needs to be replaced.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: arcenite

Originally posted by: DrPizza
MAYBE, it was originally just a ceiling light. The owner (or probably the owner's wife) was at the store and said, "hey, that's what I need - an exhaust fan!" Fan was purchased, owner was idiot and stuck it up there.

I've purchased a few exhaust fans, and I've purchased a few simple recessed light kits like that. I have yet to run across an exhaust fan *that doesn't already have a place to attach the vent hose to.*

What the hell are you talking about

Hay, I guess it is a reason to live. He has found a purpose to his life, and it is exhaust fans.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, do they? After you've done all that, and human civilization has come and gone, the sun becomes a red giant, then a white dwarf, and then a black hole, and the solar system collapses into it, which is just a marker in the timeline of the universe... does it really matter that we nuked the Arabs?

First of all, our sun will not form a black hole it is too small. Our sun is destined to become a red dwarf.

Here is the thing to think about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you take a step forward the Earth move a little in the opposite direction, and not only that, but the sun moves a little also, as does the galaxy, and then the galactic cluster. Eventually your decision to take a step forward changes the course of every atom in the entire universe. And you say physics tells us that our actions don?t matter.
Edit - Forgot to mention that that action will reverberate thoughout the universe forever, even when our sun is stone cold and the earth is no more your decision to take a step forward will be changing the universe.

You forgot to also mention that even if the sun became a black hole, as long as its mass was the same, it would still have the same gravitational pull on the planets. i.e. the rest of the solar system won't be sucked in.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, do they? After you've done all that, and human civilization has come and gone, the sun becomes a red giant, then a white dwarf, and then a black hole, and the solar system collapses into it, which is just a marker in the timeline of the universe... does it really matter that we nuked the Arabs?

First of all, our sun will not form a black hole it is too small. Our sun is destined to become a red dwarf.

Here is the thing to think about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you take a step forward the Earth move a little in the opposite direction, and not only that, but the sun moves a little also, as does the galaxy, and then the galactic cluster. Eventually your decision to take a step forward changes the course of every atom in the entire universe. And you say physics tells us that our actions don?t matter.
Edit - Forgot to mention that that action will reverberate thoughout the universe forever, even when our sun is stone cold and the earth is no more your decision to take a step forward will be changing the universe.

You forgot to also mention that even if the sun became a black hole, as long as its mass was the same, it would still have the same gravitational pull on the planets. i.e. the rest of the solar system won't be sucked in.

Well that is questionable. Once it becomes a black hole its mass will start to increase as every particle that enters becomes trapped and adds to its mass while no mass is escaping. Eventually that would lead to its sucking everything around it in. Not to mention that no matter which way it falls the final death of our favorite star is likely to be very violent and not at all good for us. So we will just have to have moved out before then.

 

[Bumrush99]

Sounds very interesting.. I'm a bit retarded when it comes to math and science, can anyone recommend a good primer on the subject? Something that does not involve too much mathematics?

 

[SagaLore]

The purpose of Life is to live, grow, spread.

Our goal as humans is to populate the universe!

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, do they? After you've done all that, and human civilization has come and gone, the sun becomes a red giant, then a white dwarf, and then a black hole, and the solar system collapses into it, which is just a marker in the timeline of the universe... does it really matter that we nuked the Arabs?

First of all, our sun will not form a black hole it is too small. Our sun is destined to become a red dwarf.

Here is the thing to think about. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you take a step forward the Earth move a little in the opposite direction, and not only that, but the sun moves a little also, as does the galaxy, and then the galactic cluster. Eventually your decision to take a step forward changes the course of every atom in the entire universe. And you say physics tells us that our actions don?t matter.
Edit - Forgot to mention that that action will reverberate thoughout the universe forever, even when our sun is stone cold and the earth is no more your decision to take a step forward will be changing the universe.

but the thing is, you have no way of knowing how your step forward will affect the universe. you dont know in which direction your step will yeild the most positive ultimate outcome for this universe. Should you take one step forward? or backward? What if your one step forward causes the ultimate demise of this universe and one step backward will lead the universe to its ultimate goal (whatever and whenever that may be). What if its neither forward or backward, but sideways? What if the best position for you to step is 20 degrees from the norm? what if its 20.5 degrees? hmmm...21 maybe? afterall, you do want to choose the path that will lead to the best possible outcome for the human race, the earth, our solar system, our galaxy, our cluster of galaxies, our universe, all the other universes that are around us, the cluster of universes, and so on...

and while you stand there, motionless, in fear of being the one that caused the end of everything, and try to contemplate the best direction to take your step, you happen to notice a nasty looking bug on the floor crawling toward your feet. you scream like a little girl and run the fvuk away, thinking, "man i gotta get my camera so I can take a pic of that beast and show it to ATOT!"

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sounds very interesting.. I'm a bit retarded when it comes to math and science, can anyone recommend a good primer on the subject? Something that does not involve too much mathematics?

Yes, Kip Thorn's From Black Holes to Time Warps: Einstein's Outrageous Legacy

 

[PowerEngineer]

Originally posted by: edro13
The usual evolution of thought goes like this:

1. You start to understand science and you are amazed.
2. You understand think about the fundamental aspects of life and displace "higher powers".
3. You start to realize that human thought, love, sight, everything can't be a coincidence.
4. You come to the conclusion that everything is so perfect because of God.
5. Repeat every few years until you die.

Hopefully, if there is a god, you are on step 4 when you die.

A better evolution of thought would go like this:

1. 
   1. You begin to understand that the physical world around you can be described through theories developed using the scientific method and mathematics, and you are amazed that the universe is understandible even on this basic level.
   
   2. You come to accept that science offers reasonable predictions of "what will happen when I do this" (thank you Richard Fenyman), and therefore you don't need to involke the actions of some "higher power" to explain how the universe works.
   
   3. You eventually realize that scientific theories never completely described anything and are always subject to corrections based on new observations/data. There will always be things that science has no good explanation for (but new observations may lead to an explanation in the future), and no absolute certainty that the things science does explain are completely accurate. You become comfortable with the notion that there are limits to what can be known.
   
   4. You realize that science only answers questions about "what will happen when I do this". It does NOT address "why". "Why" is a question for religion (and philosophy). You come to understand that science and religion are completely compatible, provided you never look to either of them to answer the others' questions. As an example, science can explain how we evolved from lower life forms (do not insist that the creation story is accurate description of what happened!). On the other hand, religion can offer explanations for why we evolved and what the purpose of life is (and science can not!).
   
   5. You reach this level of understanding by the time you reach 20 years of age, you never regress, and you live happily ever after.

P.S. -- I guess "yankeesfan" has a right to be sad these days!

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sounds very interesting.. I'm a bit retarded when it comes to math and science, can anyone recommend a good primer on the subject? Something that does not involve too much mathematics?

stephen hawking's brief history of time really isn't that hard to get through, at least the first ~1/2 of the book.