Prime ran for 5hours 17minutes at 275*9 with 1.65 volts, so i am dropping back to 1.6 and trying to hit something better. Could always go to 8 *275 (8 * 300 ran for about 4 hours at 1.55 volts, so 1.6 should hold it). But would prefer to clock a little higher then that (too bad about issues with using half multipliers, otherwise 8.5 by 275 would be good).
I've got an MSI K8N Plat and a 3200 DTR and while I haven't gotten to a solid overclock point yet (haven't had time to mess with it), here's what I've figured out:
CPU multi and vCore -
Yes, it does default to the 4x multiplier and, for me anyway, setting it to 10x in the BIOS will cause a no boot. The reason, however, is the voltage. It defaults to 1.1v despite whatever you may set in the BIOS. It instead uses the BIOS setting as a maximum (how high ClockGen can go). I can get up to 8x on 1.1v, though. That's a cool running CPU there, let me tell you.
This smacks of a motherboard that only half-way supports mobiles, as I remember reading similar things happening with Athlon XP mobiles in desktop boards. Rather than having a set multiplier and vCore, mobile chip bridges specifiy a range and depend on the motherboard to initialize them at the right settings. Seems the K8N is just starting up at the minimum setting specified by the CPU and leaving it there. I think most XP boards went for the max setting instead, which was bad.
Either way, it's odd and annoying but since I do very little outside of Windows these days (I use DOSBox or VirtualPC for most DOS and Win9x needs), I can bear with putting ClockGen in the startup and having it set the correct speeds.
RAM -
My RAM has different SPD settings for different speeds. It's weird PC3000 stuff and so I use the 2:3 memory divider to keep it under 183MHz (DDR366) as I bring up the HTT speed past 200. Here's the trick, though: Setting HTT speed higher than 200 in the BIOS does some weird stuff for me, so I do it with ClockGen. However, at 2:3 and 200MHz my RAM initialized at DDR266 latency settings when the computer booted. As the RAM gets to 166MHz and higher from the HTT being raised it needs to use lower latency settings, but that doesn't happen automatically and the computer freezes.
The lesson? Manually set your RAM to the proper latencies for higher speeds before you try and crank the HTT up.
Heatsinks & Mounting -
I've got a Koolance full-tower case and their CPU-200 water block. Many Athlon 64s would require you to get the smaller CPU-300 block, but the K8N is roomy around the socket and my CPU-200 fits fine. However, like most people are finding out, the stand-offs on the backplate were too high to use with a CPU with no heat spreader. Not having or wanting to pay for a different backplate, my solution was easy and simple if a little unimpressive. After carefully removing the glued on plate I created some plastic washers to fit around the standoffs to move the backplate a millimeter or two away from the board. It works great. Of course, actual plastic washers might be better than my folded over pieces of broken venetian blinds with a hole drilled through them, but I bet mine was cheaper.
That's all for now. Looks like I may top out at 2.4GHz. A shame. Well, not really, I guess. That's still 400MHz. I was just hoping for 2.5GHz.
-NStriker
CPU multi and vCore -
Yes, it does default to the 4x multiplier and, for me anyway, setting it to 10x in the BIOS will cause a no boot. The reason, however, is the voltage. It defaults to 1.1v despite whatever you may set in the BIOS. It instead uses the BIOS setting as a maximum (how high ClockGen can go). I can get up to 8x on 1.1v, though. That's a cool running CPU there, let me tell you.
This smacks of a motherboard that only half-way supports mobiles, as I remember reading similar things happening with Athlon XP mobiles in desktop boards. Rather than having a set multiplier and vCore, mobile chip bridges specifiy a range and depend on the motherboard to initialize them at the right settings. Seems the K8N is just starting up at the minimum setting specified by the CPU and leaving it there. I think most XP boards went for the max setting instead, which was bad.
Either way, it's odd and annoying but since I do very little outside of Windows these days (I use DOSBox or VirtualPC for most DOS and Win9x needs), I can bear with putting ClockGen in the startup and having it set the correct speeds.
RAM -
My RAM has different SPD settings for different speeds. It's weird PC3000 stuff and so I use the 2:3 memory divider to keep it under 183MHz (DDR366) as I bring up the HTT speed past 200. Here's the trick, though: Setting HTT speed higher than 200 in the BIOS does some weird stuff for me, so I do it with ClockGen. However, at 2:3 and 200MHz my RAM initialized at DDR266 latency settings when the computer booted. As the RAM gets to 166MHz and higher from the HTT being raised it needs to use lower latency settings, but that doesn't happen automatically and the computer freezes.
The lesson? Manually set your RAM to the proper latencies for higher speeds before you try and crank the HTT up.
Heatsinks & Mounting -
I've got a Koolance full-tower case and their CPU-200 water block. Many Athlon 64s would require you to get the smaller CPU-300 block, but the K8N is roomy around the socket and my CPU-200 fits fine. However, like most people are finding out, the stand-offs on the backplate were too high to use with a CPU with no heat spreader. Not having or wanting to pay for a different backplate, my solution was easy and simple if a little unimpressive. After carefully removing the glued on plate I created some plastic washers to fit around the standoffs to move the backplate a millimeter or two away from the board. It works great. Of course, actual plastic washers might be better than my folded over pieces of broken venetian blinds with a hole drilled through them, but I bet mine was cheaper.
That's all for now. Looks like I may top out at 2.4GHz. A shame. Well, not really, I guess. That's still 400MHz. I was just hoping for 2.5GHz.
-NStriker
I did something similar with my backplate when I was useing my silent boost. However I use cardboard templates so there was no gap between the baord and the backplate anywhere, the board will sag when the heatsink is cliped down with out it, and that can't be good.
Well, well looks like the SFF crowd is getting into the mobile swing. Added a SFF section with some info.
dropped to 1.58 volts, have been running at 266 *9 for about 12 hours now (prime 95), 40 c for proc, 35 for nb (probably will replace nb sink once memory comes in). If it holds throughout the night i will push a little higher, find it interesting that at 1.63 it crashed after 5+ hours (prime had an error not system crash) at 275 *9, wile at 266*9 and .5v less it seems completley stable (wonder what will happen when the proper memory comes in).
Sounds like you're hitting the limits of your chip. I haven't seen anyone running 3x at more than 270ish. Plus at 2.4Ghz you may be at the limit of that particular chip. Getting beyond 2.4Ghz takes some luck and some serious voltages.
if i drop the mutliplier to 8 I can hit 300 for quite a while (think at 1.55 i got 8 * 300 for 10 hours, and at 1.5 I had more then 12 (stoped at 12) at 7 * 300), so board can do more. Chip probably will top out around 2.4, though i am hoping to push it a little more with tweaking (if i can get 2.4 at 1.5-1.55 i should be able to get 2.45-2.5 at 1.6)
I'm not real worried about the board sagging with the Koolance block. It doesn't use the regular heatsink bracket most A64 heatsinks use, and it won't screw down tighter than need be because it's got built in slippage when it gets to a certain point. I had that puppy clamped to a P4 for just under 2 years. Those don't have backplates and there was no problem.
Hmm... Looks like I'm gonna top out at 2380MHz with an HTT of 264 x3 at 1.6v. I can get to about 2430MHz at 1.65v but the chip gets so hot under load at that voltage (hovers around 60°C) my fans all kick into high gear and get really loud (which happens if the water block gets to 45°C).
-NStriker
Hmm... Looks like I'm gonna top out at 2380MHz with an HTT of 264 x3 at 1.6v. I can get to about 2430MHz at 1.65v but the chip gets so hot under load at that voltage (hovers around 60°C) my fans all kick into high gear and get really loud (which happens if the water block gets to 45°C).
-NStriker
Might be time to replace the Koolance. The newer CPU's are really going to push the limit of the Koolance systems. I get 41C load with a custom watercooling setup Cascade/Chevette/MCP600 at 2525 using 1.7vcore. I was getting 62C with a Zalman 7000 thats barely audible at 2400 1.65vcore.
Prime just failed after 7 hours 12 minutes, at 270 * 9, with volt at 1.58, raised to 1.6, wonder if it iwll make it through the night. 267 ran for over 13 hours at 1.58 (before i switched to 270), so test was only stopped for about 20 seconds in last 20 hours, may be that 270 could hold for 12 hours if it was started on bootup.
Well, I suppose it depends on what you consider "full load." 100% CPU usage by Super Pi only gets me to 46°C. SETI@Home goes to 46-49°C. But Prime 95 torture test set to use In-place large FFTs for max power consumption and heat gets me 56-59°C.
That's all from MBM. The readout from the thermal probe on the water block stays much lower, of course. I did once have a weird reaction in the water that has left odd white deposits all throughout the tubing and reservoir. Some could have gotten into the pumps, too. There's really no way to tell if they're both working right, since the thing is pretty well sealed.
Not as good as your setup, I know, but it was worth it at the time not to have to mess with things too much. I needed a new case, anyway, so the $200 I paid for this full tower Koolance setup really wasn't so bad as an entry into water cooling. And now, two years later, I'm too poor to really change.
'Course we're way off topic now.
-NStriker
That's all from MBM. The readout from the thermal probe on the water block stays much lower, of course. I did once have a weird reaction in the water that has left odd white deposits all throughout the tubing and reservoir. Some could have gotten into the pumps, too. There's really no way to tell if they're both working right, since the thing is pretty well sealed.
Not as good as your setup, I know, but it was worth it at the time not to have to mess with things too much. I needed a new case, anyway, so the $200 I paid for this full tower Koolance setup really wasn't so bad as an entry into water cooling. And now, two years later, I'm too poor to really change.
'Course we're way off topic now.
-NStriker
Wow. Looks like I just had a really bad seating of the water block. I reset it and used some ACII I've had laying around for years, and it's topping out at 46-48°C under Prime95. Sure, it's no Cascade setup (which must have cost you), but this is much better than a moment ago.
-NStriker
-NStriker
got my ocz3700eb in, put sticks in 1,3 set to 2000 3-3-3-8 (curios at highest clock speed) got into windows, set multiplier to 9, clockgen crashed, got fsb to 250 (using msi's utility), rebooted, cant up multiplier, stuck at 4x again. Why would it only work once? I am getting ready to either return the board or go with a retail chip. If i could find a place selling retail cg's i would just do that, as i am beyond fed up. To spend $350 on memory and still not have this working is absurd.
Sounds like it's time to RMA the board. the impression I'm getting is that MSI's QC is horrible; that's the only way I can explain some users being able to use it and the myriad of users with problems.
On second thought, I just read another report about flakey AGP/PCI locks on the board. Sounds like it's just another typical MSI product. Good luck with however you go.
On second thought, I just read another report about flakey AGP/PCI locks on the board. Sounds like it's just another typical MSI product. Good luck with however you go.
finaly got through to msi tech support, they say they have no plans to support dtrs. So i either have to send back the chip or the board. I know you are recomendign the askrock, but how far can you push your dtr (with no pci lock i think there would be problems). would like to run at 2.4 if possible. I may just get the asrock then get the asus on the 25th. This is realy driving me insane.
It does have AGP/PCI lock (look at the motherboard information listed in the first post in this thread.) The only thing it doesn't have is high vcore or vdimm. With the DTR 3200+ you'll have up to 1.55v That will get you up to 2.2 for sure, 2.3Ghz possibly but 2.4Ghz is stretching it. Currently I'm using a 3200+ 1.4v mobile but I can only get to 2.3Ghz due to the 1.45v limit on those chips with the board. If you're only gonna be keeping it for a month it shouldn't really matter I would think.
ok, looks like thats the way to go, going to be 3 motherboard switches in less then 2 months, which is quite a bit more then i would like. Whats teh maximum vdim in the motherboard (running ocz so i need 2.85 and would prefer 2.9, though i wont go higher then that)?
Like I said above, there is no vdimm. You get 2.65v, that's it. Just use the 166 setting, there's no difference in performance anyway.
ok ordering the asrock, then may switch to asus assuming it works (though the rma overlap wont be that much) the asus better come out in july so i have a chance to rma the asrock. Amazingly with 2.85 volts I have goten the msi to go to 285 at 1:1, though mutliplier of 4 kind of sucks.
Also you might want to remove the msi from your list as they have said they wont be supporting it.
hopefully last question (Until asus comes out), resintall xp over current or format and reinstall clean (when i switch the boards) ?
Always a better idea to reinstall fresh.
Okay, here's the drivers that you need:
You can find them at www.sis.com
SATA105 (SiSRAID105)
AGP 1.170e
IDE204a (SiSIDE204a)
LAN116b
Okay I'm assuming you want to install WinXP onto your SATA hard drive.
1. Make a SATA driver disk. Go to www.asus.com and look in the downloads for the Asus P4S800D-E Deluxe and find and download the RAID 105 driver. Unzip it and go to folder "Driver Disk" and execute the utility "MakeDisk.exe" Insert a floppy and let it make the boot disk.
2. Upon installing WinXP right at the start you're gonna see "Hit F6 for ....." Hit F6.
3. During the initial part of the install it's going to ask you if you have additional storage devices. Hit S and insert your floppy and select SiS964 WinXP driver.
4. After you finish installing WinXP, install the LAN116b driver and reboot.
5. Download and install all critical and recommended updates via Windows Update.
6. Then install in this order SiS AGP117, SiS IDE204a
7. You can then install the CPU driver but ONLY if you want to use cool n quiet, otherwise you don't need it. I'd recommend skipping cool n quiet as it doesn't work as well as it should.
8. Install your other drivers and then programs and you're done.
At some point before or after install you'll have to install the 1.60 bios from www.asrock.com
Okay, here's the drivers that you need:
You can find them at www.sis.com
SATA105 (SiSRAID105)
AGP 1.170e
IDE204a (SiSIDE204a)
LAN116b
Okay I'm assuming you want to install WinXP onto your SATA hard drive.
1. Make a SATA driver disk. Go to www.asus.com and look in the downloads for the Asus P4S800D-E Deluxe and find and download the RAID 105 driver. Unzip it and go to folder "Driver Disk" and execute the utility "MakeDisk.exe" Insert a floppy and let it make the boot disk.
2. Upon installing WinXP right at the start you're gonna see "Hit F6 for ....." Hit F6.
3. During the initial part of the install it's going to ask you if you have additional storage devices. Hit S and insert your floppy and select SiS964 WinXP driver.
4. After you finish installing WinXP, install the LAN116b driver and reboot.
5. Download and install all critical and recommended updates via Windows Update.
6. Then install in this order SiS AGP117, SiS IDE204a
7. You can then install the CPU driver but ONLY if you want to use cool n quiet, otherwise you don't need it. I'd recommend skipping cool n quiet as it doesn't work as well as it should.
8. Install your other drivers and then programs and you're done.
At some point before or after install you'll have to install the 1.60 bios from www.asrock.com
I realise installing clean is best, but i just got everything up and running with the msi, and if i can get away without too many problems just reinstalling windows, it will save me some hassle (will do a complete format when the asus board comes out if i switch to it)
Is the sys ide driver necessary, it seems rather old, and is not on the asrock page. All i have running through ide is my burner (tdk 840g). Also niether 755 or 964 is mentioned as compatable with it.
Is the sys ide driver necessary, it seems rather old, and is not on the asrock page. All i have running through ide is my burner (tdk 840g). Also niether 755 or 964 is mentioned as compatable with it.
I don't think it's necessary, you can get by on the default ms ones. Yeah, just a win reinstall should be fine
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