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The Middle Class RADICALLY shinking

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Patranus said:
Quote: t turns out that they didn't tell us that the "global economy" would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough.

Sounds like government is the main problem.
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You're right! The governments of those countries need to get on the ball and set up minimum wage laws and regulations.
 
werepossum said:
Interesting thing about the number of people now on government assistance - straight out of Saul Alinsky's Rules For Radicals, his plan for progressives to bring down capitalism, is to get as many people as possible on government assistance and overwhelm our ability to provide for them. The crash will then allow the progressives to bring about the same authoritarian Marxist societal changes that revolutionaries have brought about in other countries, including replacing the individual and the family with the State as first in importance. What we're seeing now is a dangerous agreement in direction between major parts of the Republican Party and major parts of the Democrat Party, and it leads to a society totally dependent on government. Whether the corporations or government ultimately win majority power it seems that most of us (or at least our children and grandchildren) are headed for the new serfdom.
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Some will label you crazy to expound this. Some, but not myself. What's truly sad is that the form of government they so ardently crave doesn't work. History has proven it time and time again. But there are a always fresh new faces to bamboozle. It helps too when you teach them an altered version of history.

From the middle link in my sig.

It is what Freud called a "repetition compulsion." It happens over and over again because these people don't live in reality. That's why they are dangerous. They can never figure out what went wrong last time, so they keep trying it again. They live in egomaniacal fantasies, and real people keep getting in their way. Off with their heads!
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dmcowen674 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blanghorst
I know some people will jump all over me for saying this, but free trade was a mistake of biblical proportions. As you say, it was a ploy by the wealthy to ensure themselves more money and security.


OK who hacked blang's account?
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Can you please point to a post where I ever stated free trade was a good idea? I have been quite vocal recently in these threads about the middle class and the need to ensure that the middle class is healthy and growing.
 
blanghorst said:
You would probably count me among the "right-wingers," but what is happening in this country is wrong. The collapse of the middle class must not be allowed to continue or else, we could end up like any one of a number of third-world countries.

We can bash corporations and CEOs for their greed (most are guilty); we can bash foreign countries for allowing their workers to live in squalor and paying them peanuts (they do); but the reality is, our government and elected officials have let us down. It doesn't matter if it was a Republican or a Demcrat; BOTH have screwed us over.
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Which is why we are going to be royally screwed unless we take back our government. Let these so called leaders know that we hold the power not them. That their power originates and is derived from us.

They are not going to let go easily. It will be messy. But our choice is serfdom or liberty. Both paths are going to be messy.

But there is another choice and that's a viable third party. It's out there and picking up steam. But the powers that be keep throwing up roadblocks with the help of people that profess themselves to be the true thinkers but in reality are just following the herd off the cliff.
 
blanghorst said:
Can you please point to a post where I ever stated free trade was a good idea? I have been quite vocal recently in these threads about the middle class and the need to ensure that the middle class is healthy and growing.
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As usual Dave didn't take his lithium this morning.



Possum - what you say is true but their "rules" is piss poor planning as it could go fascist just as easy.
 
DesiPower said:
Protectionism guys, we need it badly, believe it or not, that's the only answer... it will bring many bad things in the short run but will do a lot of good in the long run.
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This increasingly seems to be true. However, I think there could be new forms rather than simply Tariffs and the like. You could require X% of US Content, for eg. in order for a Product to be Sold in the US. That wouldn't be practical for all Products, so you could make the requirement more specific to certain types of Products, Autos or Electronics for eg. This might simply lead to some Token Industry, like Packaging or even some minor Assembly, but it would be better than nothing and would create many Jobs.

The US really needs a new PC or Internet. Something that's Unique, high Valued, and has mass appeal. Unfortunately it seems less and less likely that even if such a Product were Created in the US, that it would actually be Manufactured there. No matter what, it seems that the era of Hands-Off Government are coming to an end if the current trend continues. The Nation simply can not compete against Economies where Industry and Government work according to a Strategic Plan. While on the US side it is a complete Free For All and the Industry's first response to everything is to ship most of the Work Overseas.

The only possible way to avoid more Government intervention into Economic matters would be for Corporations to develop a new found and genuine Patriotism. Seems they are only willing to throw a few beads at the issue though.
 
shira said:
Where are all the right-wingers in this thread? How come they're not telling us how GREAT the free market is?

According to some on these forums (don't want to name any names), if 150 million American workers just got the "right attitude," every single one of them could be wealthy, even though their Chinese and Indian counterparts are willing to do everything Americans can do for pennies on the dollar. Really, the free market is magic. Ya just gotta believe.
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We don't have a free market in the US.

If you only had a brain...

strawman.jpg
 
BoberFett said:
We don't have a free market in the US.

If you only had a brain...

strawman.jpg
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This is true. From patents to what a little juice in govt will get you in contracts can not be overlooked in protecting the elite. I could go either way totally real free market or you have to balance out top protection for bottom..
 
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BoberFett said:
We don't have a free market in the US.

If you only had a brain...

strawman.jpg
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So, your claim is that if the U.S. market were truly "free," there'd be no problems in the U.S. associated with competition from Chinese and Indian workers?

Please - oh wise one - explain specifically what missing aspect of "free" in U.S. markets is the key to full employment and prosperity for the American middle class.
 
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Excellent statistics. The thing is how badly some people can identify the remedy.

The progressives have long been the only political force with the answers to these issues.

They're the ones discussing things like Thom Hartmann's "Screwed: The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class -- And What We Can Do About It":

Beginning with the Reagan administration, the U.S. government has steadily instituted policies and legislation that favor corporations over citizens, argues Air America host Hartmann (The Ultimate Sacrifice). Analyzing the rhetoric and policies of the current administration's "compassionate conservatism," Hartmann goes on to detail the ways in which safety nets for working people (from progressive taxation to antitrust legislation to Social Security) have been steadily weakened, and argues that an empowered, educated middle class is crucial to a functioning democracy. Chapters detail the ways in which what gets called "the free market" is not really free (for good reason, he notes), how "We the People create the middle class," how the policies of the Founding Fathers and figures like FDR still have a lot to teach us, and ways for "Leveling the Playing Field."
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And dozens of similar books.

In the meantime, the right has offered things like Tom Friedman's worshipful books praising globalism - which have some truth, but as I've long said, support raw globalism that screws the American middle class, rather than a planned globalism which combines benefits of globalism with protections for the middle class.

We have a lot of America duped into supporting the wrong side. It's one thing to point out there are problems, but that becomes obvious. Then the issue is the side to take.

Everyone claims to want a strong middle class, but the sides have contradictory policies, some of which help and some of which damage.

But there's a clue - the side that is *fixated* on the poor getting anything, which is such a tiny bit of the economy, should notice how it is so fixated on a small part.
 
blanghorst said:
Excuse me while I vomit.
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Progressives have created much of this, massive dependency on govt generating unemployable individuals, free trade was Clintons huckleberry old right paleos knew it was a bad idea only to be labeled xenophobic or some shit, they are the ones who make every regulation so it's almost impossible to let a man work and do business.
 
Zebo said:
Progressives have created much of this, massive dependency on govt generating unemployable individuals, free trade was Clintons huckleberry old right paleos knew it was a bad idea only to be labeled xenophobic or some shit, they are the ones who make every regulation so it's almost impossible to let a man work and do business.
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Exactly, but don't rain on Craig's parade.
 
• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
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The equity market is a mere fraction of the bond market, isn't it? What are the ownership statistics of bonds - anyone know?

• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
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While a bad thing, this isn't as nefarious as it sounds. Banks generally aren't in the business of owning property - this is stuff they're eager to sell.

I think the trade issue might be somewhat alleviated by insisting on fair trade as opposed to free trade. The public radio show This American Life has this fantastic episode called David And Goliath where the second act is about Cambodia's efforts to compete as a nation that allowed unionization and higher labour standards for the garment industry, in return for trade access to the U.S. While insightful, it's also rather depressing.
 
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