The menace of personal drones - part 2

[Paratus]

Could this happen with regular airplanes too?

For professional delivery services over crowds I think an octocopter with 1-2 engine out capability and one of theses integrated parachutes would reduce the risk of injury sufficiently.

FAA should have different rules for 2KG and under drones than drones over 2KG.

Finally they just need to publicly bust a couple of these dumbasses and that will take care of most of the problem.

 

[Darwin333]

Yeah that would suck for a lot of drone enthusiast an probably kill off the hobby for the most part, but if people can't learn to be responsible and self-regulate then you'll find my sympathy somewhere between shit and syphilis. The last thing I want is to be on short final with my wife and/or kids on board just to have a drone strike turn my Cessna into a falling coffin.

And I don't want to get hit by a drunk driver while bringing my kids to softball practice but we don't mandate that all vehicles must come with breathalyzers installed to start the vehicle. How many people have drunk drivers killed versus drones?

 

[JimKiler]

Could this happen with regular airplanes too?

Yes the barriers of entry are a lot higher for airplane pilots compared to drone operators. I also understand drones are harder to fly because once in the air it is easy to confuse the orientation to know which way is forward and reverse, as well as left and right. Or are the new drones equipped with better controls?

 

[Paratus]

Yes the barriers of entry are a lot higher for airplane pilots compared to drone operators. I also understand drones are harder to fly because once in the air it is easy to confuse the orientation to know which way is forward and reverse, as well as left and right. Or are the new drones equipped with better controls?

With FPV that takes care of the reversed control problem when the drone is facing you. However FPV flying is against FAA regs without a spotter.

That being said, they are super easy to fly until you screw up or do something stupid.

I've screwed up landings before but my only crash was the first time I flew and got the controls reversed.

 

[DrPizza]

I really doubt the "near misses" are due to idiots trying to crash other aircraft. In the case of airports, I would bet the problem comes from idiots, for whom the airport is a convenient location, who think it would be really cool to have a video from the air of a jet flying by or landing. Simply make it illegal to fly within, say, .5 km of air traffic, and fine these idiots.

But, as far as "omg! So many close calls!" how many similarly close calls have there been with geese and other large birds that pose an even greater threat? (Significantly more mass)

 

[DrPizza]

Incidentally, how can a jet pilot, flying several hundred miles per hour, determine the direction of travel of a drone? E.g., can you really determine if a mosquito was hovering, flying toward you, or flying away from you when you're driving 65 mph in a car? You can only visually see it for a brief amount of time, and relative to you, it would always look like it was coming toward you. Quad copters have no discernible forward or rear orientation, at least not at those relative speeds. And, you're that high up in the sky - there isn't much else to use as a frame of reference.

 

[cabri]

The problem with drones; how to you find out who is responsible.

Aircraft have FAA assigned tail registration numbers; nothing like that exists for a drone.

All is needed for one drone to cause an incident involving loss of life and/or property, and they may end up having transmission power restricted.

 

[shira]

And I don't want to get hit by a drunk driver while bringing my kids to softball practice but we don't mandate that all vehicles must come with breathalyzers installed to start the vehicle. How many people have drunk drivers killed versus drones?

Yes, drunk drivers kill a hell of a lot more people than drones ever will. But the benefits of automobiles (including all of the lives SAVED) far outweigh the losses to drunk drivers.

Civilian drones have benefits, too, and those benefits will grow. But it's hard to argue that - right now, in what are essentially the wild, woolly, uncontrolled beginning days of civilian drones - their current benefits would remotely compensate for the loss of life of even one airliner brought down.

 

[JimKiler]

With FPV that takes care of the reversed control problem when the drone is facing you. However FPV flying is against FAA regs without a spotter.

That being said, they are super easy to fly until you screw up or do something stupid.

I've screwed up landings before but my only crash was the first time I flew and got the controls reversed.

Interesting, i can see why you would want a second set of eyes if you use FPV at least in heavy traffic.

I really doubt the "near misses" are due to idiots trying to crash other aircraft. In the case of airports, I would bet the problem comes from idiots, for whom the airport is a convenient location, who think it would be really cool to have a video from the air of a jet flying by or landing. Simply make it illegal to fly within, say, .5 km of air traffic, and fine these idiots.

But, as far as "omg! So many close calls!" how many similarly close calls have there been with geese and other large birds that pose an even greater threat? (Significantly more mass)

FAA already mandates no drones within 5 miles of an airport. But i am not sure if that is a rule, law etc and who can enforce it, police or only the FAA?

 

[shira]

Interesting, i can see why you would want a second set of eyes if you use FPV at least in heavy traffic.



FCC already mandates no drones within 5 miles of an airport. But i am not sure if that is a rule, law etc and who can enforce it, police or only the FAA?

The Federal Communications Commission?? Why would they control civilian drones, except for mandating certain limits on their control systems.

The only law I was able to find concerning recreational drones was the following:

SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law
relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into
Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this
subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration
may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model
aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational
use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a communitybased
set of safety guidelines and within the programming
of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds
unless otherwise certified through a design, construction,
inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered
by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not
interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator
of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport
air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located
at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft
operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of
an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating
procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic
control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the
airport)).

Notice that this is a limit on the FAA regulating recreational drones, not on individuals. Yes, there's an implicit "rule" about flying within five miles of an airport, but that isn't a restriction. It's merely an implied requirement that the airport be notified before you fly. Unbelievably weak.

 

[cabri]

Notice that this is a limit on the FAA regulating recreational drones, not on individuals. Yes, there's an implicit "rule" about flying within five miles of an airport, but that isn't a restriction. It's merely an implied requirement that the airport be notified before you fly. Unbelievably weak.

The FAA can not generate a regulation if such is followed.

I doubt any of the current drone operator crop that flies near an airport has informed the tower that they are doing such.

And I suspect that very few have even read the instruction manual on safety.

So, if the rules are not followed, the FAA will be able to generate additional restrictions.

 

[shira]

The FAA can not generate a regulation if such is followed.

I doubt any of the current drone operator crop that flies near an airport has informed the tower that they are doing such.

And I suspect that very few have even read the instruction manual on safety.

So, if the rules are not followed, the FAA will be able to generate additional restrictions.

So the FAA makes a rule that says "If you don't notify an airport in advance that you're going to be flying your drone within five miles of the airport, you can be charged with a felony."

In response, drone flyers call the airport and tell them, "I'm launching my drone in the next 10 minutes. Bye."

 

[cabri]

So the FAA makes a rule that says "If you don't notify an airport in advance that you're going to be flying your drone within five miles of the airport, you can be charged with a felony."

In response, drone flyers call the airport and tell them, "I'm launching my drone in the next 10 minutes. Bye."

You are acting like the drones freedom of operation should have no bearing on public safety and/or personal responsibility.

The FAA needs to state that you can not fly within 5 miles unless cleared by the tower for a given area, altitude and time. Failure is a felony, subjected to mandatory fine first time, second forfeiture of the drone, third jail.

If involved in an accident while in violation; automatic assessment of all three.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

You are acting like the drones freedom of operation should have no bearing on public safety and/or personal responsibility.

The FAA needs to state that you can not fly within 5 miles unless cleared by the tower for a given area, altitude and time. Failure is a felony, subjected to mandatory fine first time, second forfeiture of the drone, third jail.

If involved in an accident while in violation; automatic assessment of all three.

I completely agree, there needs to be some sort of coordination with ATC for operations near any airport, and the 5 mile rule needs to apply without exception around un-towered fields.

Additionally strict adherance to a maximum operating height of 500 AGL. for drone operators would solve most other problems since pilots are generally required to maintain a minimum safe altitude of 500ft or greater depending on circumstances. (details spelled out in 14 CFR 91.119)

Exceptions to the 500 AGL rule could be made for commercial drone operators with transponder equipped drones operating in controlled airspace according to a flight plan. In all cases, manned aircraft should have the right of way.

And for the ones who want to argue stupid points about bird strikes, etc., yes, bird strikes happen, we can't control the birds... We CAN and DO control the drones. It's apples vs. baseballs. Pick a better argument.

 

[Bock]

You are acting like the drones freedom of operation should have no bearing on public safety and/or personal responsibility.

The FAA needs to state that you can not fly within 5 miles unless cleared by the tower for a given area, altitude and time. Failure is a felony, subjected to mandatory fine first time, second forfeiture of the drone, third jail.

If involved in an accident while in violation; automatic assessment of all three.

I'm assuming your aren't aware of the federal correctional system. Felony = prison for at least 85% of the sentence, no parole or probation at all. If anything, first time would be Fine of $10k,{things that fly get much bigger fines} http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/23/faa-drone-pirker-case/
second violation = FPMITAP D:

 

[cabri]

I'm assuming your aren't aware of the federal correctional system. Felony = prison for at least 85% of the sentence, no parole or probation at all. If anything, first time would be Fine of $10k,{things that fly get much bigger fines} http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/23/faa-drone-pirker-case/
second violation = FPMITAP D:

Not getting inyo symantics, but what you linked is exactly the sequence thst i am expecting.

First time will be a slap on the wrist

 

[Bart*Simpson]

No kidding. Ban all the stuff that terrorists "might" use possibly for a future attack that may or may not occur. Guns, vans, fertilizer, knives, rope, hoses, martial arts, pools, dogs, flowers, clothing, helicopters, rocks, toilet paper, eggs, bats, and that white guy in Hayabusa's image. Ban them all. Then, and only then can we truly be safe.

Here's a thought: Why don't we stop letting terrorists immigrate into the USA? I'm sure we have an ample supply of domestic terrorists like the ones Obama keeps hoping for every time some foreign-born Muslim goes on a killing spree.

 

[Jaskalas]

Drones make perfect guided missiles, or IEDs.
It's just a matter of time til high value targets (people) are never seen in public again. We just cannot protect them.

FAA: Drone over Obama in South Florida had Secret Service on alert
Just a matter of time.