The liberals $43 billion train to no where...

[OverVolt]

Quoting another California doomsday prediction for posterity

Its not doomsday, its that over the next 4-5 decades the area would be in decline. You'd barely notice it but before you know it you'd be living in a shithole and everyone smarter than you already left.

Its no different than when the steel mill closes in a steel mill town or the port closes in a port town. Things change. Californians really have their head in the sand on this one. I'd personally have a plan to get a career outside of cali long-term. It would probably take time to execute but it would be important enough to me that I'd definitely have a plan for it.

California exports so much food... there is no way they can export the stuff they are currently exporting during drought conditions.

 

[theeedude]

Its not doomsday, its that over the next 4-5 decades the area would be in decline. You'd barely notice it but before you know it you'd be living in a shithole and everyone smarter than you already left.

Its no different than when the steel mill closes in a steel mill town or the port closes in a port town. Things change. Californians really have their head in the sand on this one. I'd personally have a plan to get a career outside of cali long-term. It would probably take time to execute but it would be important enough to me that I'd definitely have a plan for it.

You keep dreaming.

 

[OverVolt]

You keep dreaming.

Okay whatever. There are still people who never saw the light on what was happening to Detroit when the auto industry moved out. Statistically dumb tards like you are inevitable, as someone always gets left behind. Good luck!

The smart people are absolutely going to flee if the drought continues to get worse.

 

[theeedude]

Before you celebrate agriculture MAYBE leaving California, it's a $50B/year industry here, in a $2000 Billion/year economy.

 

[K1052]

I'm honestly glad I don't live in Cali as it can't support the population over the next couple decades if it is indeed a cyclical drought and they accidentally overbuilt the carrying capacity of the area.

If they go with desal it will price people out of the area. Population is going to go down. When population goes down the tax base also goes down. You're probably in cali and just trying not to think about it

Urban areas represent 10-15% of water use in California. Wastewater/stormwater recycling probably holds the most promise for a cost effective solution.

Your predictions are not realistic.

 

[OverVolt]

Before you celebrate agriculture MAYBE leaving California, it's a $50B/year industry here, in a $2000 Billion/year economy.

There is a knock-on effect as they spend the money. That $50B is probably spent a couple times over in a year on supporting businesses.

 

[theeedude]

There is a knock-on effect as they spend the money. That $50B is probably spent a couple times over in a year on supporting businesses.

I guess we better shut Silicon Valley down, I mean we won't be able to sell chips to farmers

 

[K1052]

Before you celebrate agriculture MAYBE leaving California, it's a $50B/year industry here, in a $2000 Billion/year economy.

Plus not nearly all of that economic activity is being lost. Farmers are switching to crops that use less water and changing their water use patterns.

 

[OverVolt]

I guess we better shut Silicon Valley down, I mean we won't be able to sell chips to farmers

Since California is such a large area its going to depend where you live locally. Some areas will get hit hard, others not so bad. I don't live there, so I don't know for any given area if I think it'll become a hellhole or not. Thats up to whomever is living there to decide. It will probably hit the state budget overall pretty hard in my opinion over the long term. LA and SF will probably be fine. From some quick googling I'd get out of the Central Valley stat.

Edit: Ah yes JeepinEd reminded me to get back on topic. All things considered with the drought and all, SF and LA can't afford this shit. They REALLY do have more pressing uses for the money. Which is the whole point.

 

[JeepinEd]

So they are starting to build a train that is now expected to cost over $68 Billion ($23B more than what tax payers were told it would cost when the prop was voted on). Not all the $10B in bonds have been sold, and the Gov. is putting in $3.5B. Even if they sell all the bonds, CA will have $13B to build this train. Jerry Brown hopes some magical company will put up the remaining $55+ Billion that will be needed? (With no interested parties so far). This, by the way, has been ruled to be in violation of the proposition itself : http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_23880055/judge-calif-high-speed-rail-violates-initiative

In addition, the proposition mandates a travel time of no more than 2 hours 40 minutes, which by all accounts is not going to happen with their planned "Blended Rail" system. Even the former head of the High Speed Rail Authority has said this is no longer a high speed rail system.

While I'm all for building infrastructure, this is just a boondoggle that the majority of CA residents no longer support.

I think it would be wiser to focus on water related projects, than is pie in the sky dream of a HSR.

 

[theeedude]

Why is it a pie in the sky dream though? China has HSR, Japan has it, Europe has it? It's only pie in the sky to people who never travel outside the US.

 

[Drako]

I think it would be wiser to focus on water related projects, than is pie in the sky dream of a HSR.

Preach it brother. :thumbsup:

 

[K1052]

So they are starting to build a train that is now expected to cost over $68 Billion ($23B more than what tax payers were told it would cost when the prop was voted on). Not all the $10B in bonds have been sold, and the Gov. is putting in $3.5B. Even if they sell all the bonds, CA will have $13B to build this train. Jerry Brown hopes some magical company will put up the remaining $55+ Billion that will be needed? (With no interested parties so far). This, by the way, has been ruled to be in violation of the proposition itself : http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_23880055/judge-calif-high-speed-rail-violates-initiative

In addition, the proposition mandates a travel time of no more than 2 hours 40 minutes, which by all accounts is not going to happen with their planned "Blended Rail" system. Even the former head of the High Speed Rail Authority has said this is no longer a high speed rail system.

While I'm all for building infrastructure, this is just a boondoggle that the majority of CA residents no longer support.

I think it would be wiser to focus on water related projects, than is pie in the sky dream of a HSR.

The HSR program is going to get cap and trade program revenue, CA should have little problem bonding out the rest of their end (there will be more Fed money) over the long term.

The blended system with Caltrain from San Jose to SF represents about 50 miles of shared trackage that HSR will most likely operate at 110mph utilizing additional main line tracks in some places and passing tracks in others to overtake Caltrain services. While time is going to be longer in this segment than originally envisioned the penalty isn't all that great due to it's length relative to the system and the need to decelerate for intermediate stations.

 

[JeepinEd]

Why is it a pie in the sky dream though? China has HSR, Japan has it, Europe has it? It's only pie in the sky to people who never travel outside the US.

It's pie in the sky because the reality of the planned system is nothing like China's or Japan's. The cost is much higher than promised, the funding for it is not there, and the speed is not there.

While it would be nice to have a true HSR, California has more important infrastructure projects that it should be working on.

 

[theeedude]

It's pie in the sky because the reality of the planned system is nothing like China's or Japan's. The cost is much higher than promised, the funding for it is not there, and the speed is not there.

While it would be nice to have a true HSR, California has more important infrastructure projects that it should be working on.

Have you ridden HSR in China? It's not high speed on all segments of track either. Life goes on.

 

[BoberFett]

Why is it a pie in the sky dream though? China has HSR, Japan has it, Europe has it? It's only pie in the sky to people who never travel outside the US.

https://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2014/01/06/high-speed-rail-in-california-versus-china/

California: $131 million per mile, 520 miles by 2029
China: $19 million per mile, 16,000 miles by 2020

That might have something to do with it. I guess our HSR system could look like China's after about 100 years and a few trillion dollars.

 

[theeedude]

https://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2014/01/06/high-speed-rail-in-california-versus-china/

California: $131 million per mile, 520 miles by 2029
China: $19 million per mile, 16,000 miles by 2020

That might have something to do with it. I guess our HSR system could look like China's after about 100 years and a few trillion dollars.

So what? Everything is more expensive in the US than China, let's not do anything then. China can build a fighter jet for $20M, ours cost $200M, let's just not have an Air Force then.

 

[JeepinEd]

Have you ridden HSR in China? It's not high speed on all segments of track either. Life goes on.

My point is that this is not the High Speed Rail project that California citizens (including myself) voted for. The billions of additional tax dollars that this project will require could be better spent on other, more urgent, infrastructure projects.

 

[theeedude]

My point is that this is not the High Speed Rail project that California citizens (including myself) voted for. The billions of additional tax dollars that this project will require could be better spent on other, more urgent, infrastructure projects.

We should spend on those in addition to HSR, what are they?

 

[OverVolt]

..and that is why California is going to go bankrupt with voters like that... :awe:

 

[theeedude]

..and that is why California is going to go bankrupt with voters like that... :awe:

Any time now

 

[BoberFett]

So what? Everything is more expensive in the US than China, let's not do anything then. China can build a fighter jet for $20M, ours cost $200M, let's just not have an Air Force then.

So then why do people bitch about our healthcare? Everything is more expensive here.

Make up your damn minds.

 

[K1052]

https://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2014/01/06/high-speed-rail-in-california-versus-china/

California: $131 million per mile, 520 miles by 2029
China: $19 million per mile, 16,000 miles by 2020

That might have something to do with it. I guess our HSR system could look like China's after about 100 years and a few trillion dollars.

Naturally the valid comparison is to pick the developing nation who's economy/laws lacks any resemblance to our own.

I'm convinced.

 

[theeedude]

So then why do people bitch about our healthcare? Everything is more expensive here.

Make up your damn minds.

Because it's expensive even relative to how expensive everything else is. We spend twice the percentage of GDP on health care relative to other developed countries.

Use your damn minds.

 

[BoberFett]

And to that end I'm trying to find the cost per mile of track in Europe, but I'm not find readily available sources. I'll try to do more searching. I'm willing to bet it's a lot cheaper than the projected CA cost though. If there's one thing American politicians are good at, it's pissing away money at a faster rate than anyone on the planet.