The law vs the greater good

[Texashiker]

Landmark case going before the India supreme court about low cost generic drugs.

http://world.time.com/2012/08/21/how-an-indian-patent-case-could-shape-the-future-of-generic-drugs/

On one side we have drug companies that want to stop the production of low cost drugs, such as treatments for HIV.

On the other side we have sick people who need access to low cost medicines.

In the middle is the government that provides medicine to people who meet income guidelines.

The needs of the few (the drug companies) vs the needs of the many.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Landmark case going before the India supreme court about low cost generic drugs.

http://world.time.com/2012/08/21/how-an-indian-patent-case-could-shape-the-future-of-generic-drugs/

On one side we have drug companies that want to stop the production of low cost drugs, such as treatments for HIV.

On the other side we have sick people who need access to low cost medicines.

In the middle is the government that provides medicine to people who meet income guidelines.

The needs of the few (the drug companies) vs the needs of the many.

Do you believe that individuals or companies should be allowed to patent their ideas? Do you understand why patents are important? How many drugs do you think would be developed in a world without patents? IMO the US should not honor patents from countries that do not respect US drug patents.

 

[PokerGuy]

Not that simple of course. It's easy to say "the needs of the many are more important!"... but you have to keep in mind how these drugs came to exist to begin with. They were researched and developed by the drug companies. Depriving them of intellectual property rights associated with that development would mean less such development and ultimately fewer useful medicines for all.

How would you like it if you spend years and lots of money to develop something and sold it for $5, but then someone in India decided it to copy it and sell it for $1 "for the greater good" and you got nothing for your efforts?

 

[diesbudt]

Business, government, and technology. Man's 3 greatest foes.

 

[PokerGuy]

Do you believe that individuals or companies should be allowed to patent their ideas? Do you understand why patents are important? IMO the US should not honor patents from countries that do not respect US drug patents.

I agree, but the US (and other countries that develop new ideas and products) have to go beyond that, because many of the countries that steal IP don't actually have much in the way of useful patents anyway -- they just steal from others who come up with things.

 

[Texashiker]

Do you believe that individuals or companies should be allowed to patent their ideas? Do you understand why patents are important? How many drugs do you think would be developed in a world without patents? IMO the US should not honor patents from countries that do not respect US drug patents.

Yes, yes, and yes.

But, when you need something to stay alive, should a company be allowed to charge whatever they want?

What right does a company have to control your life?

And its not just your life, its public health in general. Tuberculosis is still out there, killing people everyday.

 

[Farang]

I see the drug company's perspective but it's hard to argue that if we discovered orange peels cured cancer, that because someone patented it nobody would be allowed to use an orange peel to cure cancer unless they paid that person more money than they had.

I'd call it a broken system we have for developing new drugs if those new drugs can't then be used to help the majority of people.

 

[diesbudt]

I agree, but the US (and other countries that develop new ideas and products) have to go beyond that, because many of the countries that steal IP don't actually have much in the way of useful patents anyway -- they just steal from others who come up with things.

This is more based on how bad patent law really is.

There is both international patent law and intranational patent law.

They both have different rulesets, have different requirements, and cost different fees. With International patents costing much more than intranational patents.

So it isn't that they steal IP ideas, but the fact that unless one takes many precautions and has the financing behind them, their patents mean nothing to other countries which gives them the ability to steal IP.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

I see the drug company's perspective but it's hard to argue that if we discovered orange peels cured cancer, that because someone patented it nobody would be allowed to use an orange peel to cure cancer unless they paid that person more money than they had.

I'd call it a broken system we have for developing new drugs if those new drugs can't then be used to help the majority of people.

Obviously, this is where we stand. Where have you gone, Jonas Salk?

 

[dank69]

Not that simple of course. It's easy to say "the needs of the many are more important!"... but you have to keep in mind how these drugs came to exist to begin with. They were researched and developed by the drug companies. Depriving them of intellectual property rights associated with that development would mean less such development and ultimately fewer useful medicines for all.

How would you like it if you spend years and lots of money to develop something and sold it for $5, but then someone in India decided it to copy it and sell it for $1 "for the greater good" and you got nothing for your efforts?

Let's pretend you are a God-fearing Christian and let's pretend that your God really does exist. Then let's pretend that someone who made millions of dollars in the pharmaceutical industry has died and is now at the Pearly Gates. How do you think God is going to judge this man? What I'm asking is, do you think motives have more or less weight than outcomes? Does a man get a free pass for refusing to provide his drug for cost just because it saves millions of lives?

 

[soulcougher73]

Healthcare for profit for the loss.

 

[Atreus21]

Let's pretend you are a God-fearing Christian and let's pretend that your God really does exist. Then let's pretend that someone who made millions of dollars in the pharmaceutical industry has died and is now at the Pearly Gates. How do you think God is going to judge this man? What I'm asking is, do you think motives have more or less weight than outcomes? Does a man get a free pass for refusing to provide his drug for cost just because it saves millions of lives?

I would imagine he'd be under the same microscope as any of us. If throughout the man's life he was a greedy selfish prick utterly consumed with self-adoration, I doubt God would give him a pass. However, as I'm not God, I can't presume to know this.

 

[Atreus21]

Healthcare for profit for the loss.

Yeah. Doctors should work for free. If they work for money they're just being greedy.

Would you continue to work at your job in the name of selfless service if suddenly your employer appealed to your virtue and asked you to work for free?

 

[Texashiker]

Yeah. Doctors should work for free. If they work for money they're just being greedy.

Its not a matter of working for free, its a matter of being affordable.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Its not a matter of working for free, its a matter of being affordable.

And not setting prices to artificially inflated rates to gouge consumers in great need, which is really the case.

 

[nehalem256]

Healthcare for profit for the loss.

If India developed their own HIV treatments they would not have this problem would they?

 

[soulcougher73]

Yeah. Doctors should work for free. If they work for money they're just being greedy.

Would you continue to work at your job in the name of selfless service if suddenly your employer appealed to your virtue and asked you to work for free?

No i wouldnt in my field. But in the field of caring and saving lives. Id work for a lot less than Dr. make currently. In that line of work curing/healing people should be the rewards. That is the problem with healthcare currently. Its too expensive because most people invovled in it are chasing the money and not doing it for what should be the right reasons.

Now the Dr.'s that go into Africa and other poorer countries and do work for free or very little, get mad props from me for doing what Dr.'s should do. Care.

You sound like such a caring compassionate religious conservative.

 

[diesbudt]

And not setting prices to artificially inflated rates to gouge consumers in great need, which is really the case.

The doctor prices is also a reflection of how expensive and inflated schooling costs have become. Along with all the lawsuits that happen in this country, when half if not more are ridiculous. This casues an increase of practice of medicine insurance which means and increase on their prices to offset.

 

[diesbudt]

No i wouldnt in my field. But in the field of caring and saving lives. Id work for a lot less than Dr. make currently. In that line of work curing/healing people should be the rewards. That is the problem with healthcare currently. Its too expensive because most people invovled in it are chasing the money and not doing it for what should be the right reasons.

Now the Dr.'s that go into Africa and other poorer countries and do work for free or very little, get mad props from me for doing what Dr.'s should do. Care.

You sound like such a caring compassionate religious conservative.

But people cant survive spending 10+ hours a day without making enough $$ for a living. Add on the debt most of them come out of school with and the high cost of practicing medicine insurance...

Add in all the great lawsuits many seem to get, its no wonder the doctor count in this country is small, and shrinking.

 

[Texashiker]

The doctor prices is also a reflection of how expensive and inflated schooling costs have become. Along with all the lawsuits that happen in this country, when half if not more are ridiculous. This casues an increase of practice of medicine insurance which means and increase on their prices to offset.

The doctor my wife worked for was paying about $5,000 a month for his liability insurance.

 

[nehalem256]

No i wouldnt in my field. But in the field of caring and saving lives. Id work for a lot less than Dr. make currently. In that line of work curing/healing people should be the rewards. That is the problem with healthcare currently. Its too expensive because most people invovled in it are chasing the money and not doing it for what should be the right reasons.

Now the Dr.'s that go into Africa and other poorer countries and do work for free or very little, get mad props from me for doing what Dr.'s should do. Care.

You sound like such a caring compassionate religious conservative.

So you are one of those crazy liberals that think people work for "fun"

 

[Mursilis]

No i wouldnt in my field. But in the field of caring and saving lives. Id work for a lot less than Dr. make currently. In that line of work curing/healing people should be the rewards. That is the problem with healthcare currently. Its too expensive because most people invovled in it are chasing the money and not doing it for what should be the right reasons.

Now the Dr.'s that go into Africa and other poorer countries and do work for free or very little, get mad props from me for doing what Dr.'s should do. Care.

You sound like such a caring compassionate religious conservative.

He's no worse than you. Are you in Africa, saving lives?

 

[CycloWizard]

Yes, yes, and yes.

But, when you need something to stay alive, should a company be allowed to charge whatever they want?

What right does a company have to control your life?

And its not just your life, its public health in general. Tuberculosis is still out there, killing people everyday.

The drug company invested huge amounts of money, time, and energy to develop the drug that now exists and can save your life. If you want government to step up and pay for the drug that's one thing, but this is plainly theft. If this comes to pass, next time you get sick there won't be a drug that can save your life because no one will have any reason to invest in its development.

 

[CycloWizard]

No i wouldnt in my field. But in the field of caring and saving lives. Id work for a lot less than Dr. make currently. In that line of work curing/healing people should be the rewards. That is the problem with healthcare currently. Its too expensive because most people invovled in it are chasing the money and not doing it for what should be the right reasons.

Now the Dr.'s that go into Africa and other poorer countries and do work for free or very little, get mad props from me for doing what Dr.'s should do. Care.

You sound like such a caring compassionate religious conservative.

Physicians, who have over a decade of training before they can even practice on their own, should work for purely benevolent reasons while you, having almost certainly far less training, have a right to make money for your troubles? :hmm:

 

[Texashiker]

The drug company invested huge amounts of money, time, and energy to develop the drug that now exists and can save your life. If you want government to step up and pay for the drug that's one thing, but this is plainly theft. If this comes to pass, next time you get sick there won't be a drug that can save your life because no one will have any reason to invest in its development.

We all know this. Company makes money, there is no problem there.

But if a company in India can make life saving drugs at a fraction of the price as the big companies, you do not see price gouging there?

How can company A sale a pill for 50 cents, but company B wants to charge $100 for the same exact pill?