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The Jussie Smollett Affair

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But still, there are some people in this thread believing J.Smollett's "story" from the get go and vehemently defending him without waiting for an investigation to commence and find out the truth.
I smelled BS from the moment he and his manager didn't cooperate by surrendering their cellphones to the Chicago investigators/police. The press/media/celebs played on his scheme to gain some "sympathy" because of his race/sex orientation, glad it backfired.
Hope he spends some time in jail soon and not just given a slap in the hand.
 
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UglyCasanova said:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/02/25/jackson-hate-crime-arson-joly/2978003002/

Related.

When Nikki Joly's Jackson home burned down in 2017, some believed the fire was a hate crime against the transgendered, gay-rights activist who had fought for a local anti-discrimination ordinance.

But now, instead of a victim, the 54-year-old is accused of being the perpetrator.
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Because, 24/7 real-time instant news and social media and everyone on their phones “listening”.
“Real hate crimes are on the rise,” Graham Cassano, associate professor of sociology at Oakland University, said Monday. “But as these crimes increase and become publicized, it’s not surprising to me that people would take the opportunity to use this to their advantage and fabricate hate crimes.”
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CZroe said:
That incorrect assumption is very likely what led people to all the other demonstrably wrong assumptions about the case. Zimmerman had done absolutely nothing wrong at the point when he was assaulted by Trayvon. There is no reason to pretend it’s more complicated than it was... except to excuse our knee-jerk reactions that turned out to be wrong.

Trayvon’s behavior warranted the call to the police and demonstrated Zimmerman’s need for protection.

Zimmerman was not only lawful in every action, he also complied with the police even where he didn’t have to.

Also, HomerJS’ was the one claiming that he wants equal justice whether the perpetrators are people he agrees with or not, so clearly he’s talking about legal/illegal too. He basically contradicted himself with one previous post.
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Except he DID do something VERY wrong, he exited his vehicle to follow someone HE considered a "perp", if he had just gone home or at least observed from the vehicle no one gets shot. You're claiming Martin might have "stalked him" to his front door is laughable, what was he worried about, he was packing heat. Meanwhile Martins GF relayed her conversation with him, 'some crazy white cracker is following me" but wait, since you're one of the "oh, see, he was walking too slow" bullcrap it's was an excuse for dick-wad to get out and follow him on foot. Rather than feel remorse over a young person's death, dick-wad auctioned off the gun for a huge payday, what an asshole.
 
BUTCH1 said:
Except he DID do something VERY wrong, he exited his vehicle to follow someone HE considered a "perp", if he had just gone home or at least observed from the vehicle no one gets shot. You're claiming Martin might have "stalked him" to his front door is laughable, what was he worried about, he was packing heat. Meanwhile Martins GF relayed her conversation with him, 'some crazy white cracker is following me" but wait, since you're one of the "oh, see, he was walking too slow" bullcrap it's was an excuse for dick-wad to get out and follow him on foot. Rather than feel remorse over a young person's death, dick-wad auctioned off the gun for a huge payday, what an asshole.
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You are blinded with bias.

BUTCH1 said:
Except he DID do something VERY wrong, he exited his vehicle to follow someone HE considered a "perp", ...
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Listen to yourself: It's "very wrong" for the Neighborhood Watch coordinator to follow a suspicious person while trying to direct police to the correct location? In a Neighborhood Watch community, that's what I would EXEPECT of my neighbors and I would do the same for them!

Do you realize that "Neighborhood Watch" is basically all the members of the community, regardless of whether-or-not they are in a vehicle and whether-or-not they even own a vehicle?

BUTCH1 said:
... if he had just gone home or at least observed from the vehicle no one gets shot. ...
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Trayvon was trespassing on multiple properties as he walked behind between houses. He could not be followed from the vehicle. The neighborhood had suffered many recent break-ins. Zimmerman was perfectly capable of following. If I was part of that community, I would have been very disappointed in Zimmerman for not following or doing what he could to observe where the suspicious individual went. I would have done the same for my neighbors and I expect them to do it for me. That's how Neighborhood Watch works.

BUTCH1 said:
... You're claiming Martin might have "stalked him" to his front door is laughable,
...
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Why is Zimmerman's concern "laughable" when it was PROVEN VALID by Trayvon returning and physically assaulting him?

BUTCH1 said:
... what was he worried about, he was packing heat. ...
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Perhaps worried that he would be physically assaulted and end up in a horrible situation where he needed to use his firearm? Perhaps worried that the stranger he was following might also have a gun? You're deluding yourself. That's why you failed to see that your supposedly-rhetorical question has such an obvious answer.

BUTCH1 said:
... Meanwhile Martins GF relayed her conversation with him, 'some crazy white cracker is following me" but wait, since you're one of the "oh, see, he was walking too slow" bullcrap it's was an excuse for dick-wad to get out and follow him on foot. ...
Click to expand...
Trayvon was walking through an access-controlled neighborhood that he was not a member of and trespassing through other people's yards. The neighborhood was on alert for strangers walking through because there had been recent break-ins.

How innocent of him to trespass, then refer to the concerned community member as a "crazy cracker."
 
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CZroe said:
You don’t have to trust his account. Again, ALL the other evidence supports it.

This can also be circular reasoning. We already know that the lie perpetrated against him has turned his life upside-down. I’d almost expect a mental breakdown. People have tried to murder him while he was innocently driving down the road, based on a lie, and then morons on this forum celebrated it. Point is, cause and effect could easily be completely backwards from what you imply.

He’s no angel... even before the encounter. He’s just a flawed man who was thrust into the spotlight based on a lie who now has all his other faults being on public display. Your typical domestic dispute doesn’t get distorted into evidence of being a hot-headed racist murderer like his does. Believe me: the same media lens that distorted the original event is intent on distorting these too. You are expressing the same over-eagerness to believe the worst with this post, which is exactly how we got here in the first place.
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He followed him and called the police because he "looked" threatening"

If you could be honest with yourself, if someone who looked like Kate Upton walked through the neighborhood would he have called the police? He may have stalked her but for different reasons.
 
HomerJS said:
He followed him and called the police because he "looked" threatening"

If you could be honest with yourself, if someone who looked like Kate Upton walked through the neighborhood would he have called the police? He may have stalked her but for different reasons.
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How many women that look like Kate Upton commit burglary every year?
I still think the entire affair was the story of two assholes, one of the assholes was better armed.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
jackstar7 said:
Ferris Bueller was tresspassing through many properties and couldn't be followed by car.

Suspicious?
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Ferris Bueller doesn’t exist.
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Not so easy to follow either.

Also, running like a maniac doesn't make you look like a prowling thief.

jackstar7 said:
Starbuck1975 said:
jackstar7 said:
Ferris Bueller was tresspassing through many properties and couldn't be followed by car.

Suspicious?
Click to expand...
Ferris Bueller doesn’t exist.
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Good use of your time here.
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You wasted time posting your obviously inappropriate hypothetical rhetoric. I suppose that was a good use of your time.
 
I gotta say at least my head isn't so far up my own ass that I can't see a joke.

My head is plenty up my ass, but I've still got some oxygen getting in.
 
HomerJS said:
He followed him and called the police because he "looked" threatening"

If you could be honest with yourself, if someone who looked like Kate Upton walked through the neighborhood would he have called the police? He may have stalked her but for different reasons.
Click to expand...

Looked threatening, or, suspicious?
 
YouTube recommended a video to me that includes several clips I hadn't seen. I think so-called "body language analysis" is dubious, but those clips were interesting.


1 minute 28 seconds
"I'm disgusted by people who wear hats that say MAGA."

1 minute 38 seconds
"I don't believe Jussie is making this up."
"I don't like that it's being put out there in the media that this is a 'possible' hate crime. That even sows a seed [cohost: 'of doubt'] that makes people feel like 'well is he making this up?' Don't put that in people's minds! This man was hurt, he was injured, and he needs justice. Point blank."

24 minutes 28 seconds
Interview with shop keeper. Shop keeper said the brothers specifically asked to buy MAGA hats!
 
jackstar7 said:
Selective skepticism is amazing, right? I watched the full video of the kids and don't need the lawyer's editing to frame it for me. Thanks for spreading their message again though. It's gotta feel good, right?

To rehash my last point about Z, the element you ignore is the gun. You don't know if it was seen, how it was seen, or what. But the gun in the situation is an automatic escalation. Was he lawful to have it, yep. Was he right to have it? It's subjective. Someone ending up dead certainly suggests it wasn't right, even though it was ruled lawful.

Life is complicated like that.
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I hope you aren't saying that having a gun on you is the same thing as escalating a violent situation? Just because you are equipped to defend yourself doesn't mean you are responsible if someone else attacks you. Making the choice to legally carry a gun doesn't make you morally, ethically or legally responsible if attacked. You are making it sound like Zimmerman was the bad guy and deserved the attack because he was carrying. Regardless of if it was seen or not. Fucking BS.

In what crazy world of yours is a person morally required to take a beating just because they have the ability to defend themselves with a gun? Self defense rights >>> right to assault someone.
 
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Paladin3 said:
I hope you aren't saying that having a gun on you is the same thing as escalating a violent situation? Just because you are equipped to defend yourself doesn't mean you are responsible if someone else attacks you. Making the choice to legally carry a gun doesn't make you morally, ethically or legally responsible if attacked. You are making it sound like Zimmerman was the bad guy and deserved the attack because he was carrying. Regardless of if it was seen or not. Fucking BS.

In what crazy world of yours is a person morally required to take a beating just because they have the ability to defend themselves with a gun? Self defense rights >>> right to assault someone.
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Except I didn't say that.

I said that we'll never know if Martin was aware of the gun and that could have escalated things. If the weapon was brandished, then that's a threat to Martin, who already was acting under heightened circumstances.

To be clear though, I'm ardently anti-gun. I accept that it is lawful to have them right now, but I'd prefer if no one did (including most/all police).
 
BUTCH1 said:
Except he DID do something VERY wrong, he exited his vehicle to follow someone HE considered a "perp", if he had just gone home or at least observed from the vehicle no one gets shot. You're claiming Martin might have "stalked him" to his front door is laughable, what was he worried about, he was packing heat. Meanwhile Martins GF relayed her conversation with him, 'some crazy white cracker is following me" but wait, since you're one of the "oh, see, he was walking too slow" bullcrap it's was an excuse for dick-wad to get out and follow him on foot. Rather than feel remorse over a young person's death, dick-wad auctioned off the gun for a huge payday, what an asshole.
Click to expand...
There are very few non-violent actions that can justify a violent reaction. VERY few. Almost none, you could say. And following someone is not one of them. So, if you choose to respond to non-violence with life-threatening violence you have to accept that you might get shot and killed for it because self-defense is a basic human right.
 
Paladin3 said:
There are very few non-violent actions that can justify a violent reaction. VERY few. Almost none, you could say. And following someone is not one of them. So, if you choose to respond to non-violence with life-threatening violence you have to accept that you might get shot and killed for it because self-defense is a basic human right.
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Cool. Now look at it the other way.
 
soundforbjt said:
Zimmerman wasn't out for a nightly stroll, he was "hunting".
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jackstar7 said:
Except I didn't say that.

I said that we'll never know if Martin was aware of the gun and that could have escalated things. If the weapon was brandished, then that's a threat to Martin, who already was acting under heightened circumstances.

To be clear though, I'm ardently anti-gun. I accept that it is lawful to have them right now, but I'd prefer if no one did (including most/all police).
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You'll never know many things that there exist no proof or evidence of. But don't let that sway your notion that Martin was acting in self-defense. Which the actual evidence clearly shows he was not when he attacked Zimmerman.

You don't like guns so anyone who legally carries one will always be at fault in any fight. Got it.
 
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