The joy of religion - part xxxxxxxxx

[soulcougher73]

Are you unaware that verses in the Bible like the one I quoted cause Christians to lose their faith? Are you aware that the number one cited reason for people leaving the Christian faith is reading the Bible? Think about it.

How can you read the verse I quoted without coming to the conclusion that God is neither omniscient not omnipotent? Omniscience is MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE with surprise and repentance, it is impossible by definition. Omnipotence is MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE with an inability to create what you want, it is impossible by definition. I have no idea how you can read that verse and retain your illusions as to God's capabilities.

He's never read the Bible would be my guess hence his ignorance if it.

 

[bshole]

He's never read the Bible would be my guess hence his ignorance if it.

In general atheists know more about the Bible and biblical history than Christian. That is a contributing factor to their loss of faith.

From my experience, there are whole swathes of the Bible ignored. A tremendous amount of picking and choosing. There seems to be an inordinate interest in verses about sex.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

 

[JEDIYoda]

In general atheists know more about the Bible and biblical history than Christian. That is a contributing factor to their loss of faith.

From my experience, there are whole swathes of the Bible ignored. A tremendous amount of picking and choosing. There seems to be an inordinate interest in verses about sex.

In general that is not what that survey says.....why? Because it depends on who they surveyed and how many of each group they surveyed!! In general there are quite a few ignorant atheists on these forums...like I am just saying...

 

[shira]

In general that is not what that survey says.....why? Because it depends on who they surveyed and how many of each group they surveyed!! In general there are quite a few ignorant atheists on these forums...like I am just saying...

Your post is so laughably stupid it's scary.

A survey is by definition "in general." That's what the results of a survey purport to tell us, "general" results. It may be that a survey's methods and/or results are invalid, but a survey of a group or groups means EXACTLY "in general."

The fact that there are SPECIFIC individuals who have characteristics at odds with the GENERAL result of a survey is utterly irrelevant to the question of whether the survey is valid. Do you really not understand this?

(And by the way, the reason that bshole's statement "In general atheists know more about the Bible and biblical history than Christian [sic]" is "not what the survey says" is that the survey's results refer to religious knowledge overall, not to knowledge about Christianity specifically. So it's very possible [and quite likely, in fact], that atheists/agnostics have significantly greater knowledge of religion overall than Christians do, but less knowledge of Christianity specifically than Christians do.)

Edit: I looked at the survey, and it turns out that Pew broke out separate results on knowledge of Christianity specifically:

As you can see, atheists/agnostics still score quite high in their knowledge of Christianity (higher, in fact, than the average Christian and average Catholic, which means that bshole's statement was actually correct). But Mormons and the Christian sub-group white evangelicals scored higher.

 

[buckshot24]

In general atheists know more about the Bible and biblical history than Christian. That is a contributing factor to their loss of faith.

From my experience, there are whole swathes of the Bible ignored. A tremendous amount of picking and choosing. There seems to be an inordinate interest in verses about sex.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

Hacking away. TO the list.

 

[buckshot24]

As you can see, atheists/agnostics still score quite high in their knowledge of Christianity (higher, in fact, than the average Christian and average Catholic, which means that bshole's statement was actually correct). But Mormons and the Christian sub-group white evangelicals scored higher.

That doesn't mean he wasn't misrepresenting the bible.

Do you have those facts about the science of "well understood" abiogenesis yet? Are you going to man up or admit you lied? Or ignore that you ever said such nonsense?

 

[soulcougher73]

That doesn't mean he wasn't misrepresenting the bible.

Do you have those facts about the science of "well understood" abiogenesis yet? Are you going to man up or admit you lied? Or ignore that you ever said such nonsense?

Ah the classic misrepresenting the bible line. Been a while since we heard that one. "You just don't understand, you're interpreting it wrong" when in fact it can me misineterpered is half the problem, and this goes for theists to who think they have interpreted it correctly.

But dont worry buckhole24, we dont hold the brainwashing against you. It's not your fault. Say it with us "ITS NOT YOUR FAULT"

 

[bshole]

Is trolling a bannable offense? I have never seen so much trolling by one person ever on this forum as I have seen by a particular person on this thread. Quite annoying actually.

 

[shira]

That doesn't mean he wasn't misrepresenting the bible.

Do you have those facts about the science of "well understood" abiogenesis yet? Are you going to man up or admit you lied? Or ignore that you ever said such nonsense?

The statement was that the Pew survey found that atheists/agnostics know more about Christianity than Christians do. That was a correct statement.

(And in case you hadn't noticed, I'm ignoring your diversions.)

 

[shira]

Is trolling a bannable offense? I have never seen so much trolling by one person ever on this forum as I have seen by a particular person on this thread. Quite annoying actually.

I'm pretty sure that if the Mods determine that someone is exhibiting a clear pattern of making largely non-constructive posts, that would start a process that could lead to warnings, short-term bans, longer-terms bans, and - in extreme cases - permanent bans.

 

[bshole]

The statement was that the Pew survey found that atheists/agnostics know more about Christianity than Christians do. That was a correct statement.

(And in case you hadn't noticed, I'm ignoring your diversions.)

I know the reason for this. I know a great deal more than most Christians about their religion. I raised a fundamentalist and blindly learned the Bible as a child. When I began to lose faith, I studied the Bible in depth with a CRITICAL eye. I also researched Biblical history. I did this to shore up my faith. The end result was a complete loss of faith. I lost my faith unwillingly. I suspect the same type of process happened for alot of other athiests. To be a Christian requires no actual Bible knowlege, just a willingness to accept whatever the preacher says as truth.

 

[WelshBloke]

Is trolling a bannable offense? I have never seen so much trolling by one person ever on this forum as I have seen by a particular person on this thread. Quite annoying actually.

I don't think that he's trolling at this point.

I think that he's backed himself into a corner and knows that if he starts addressing points or debating properly his arguments are going to fall apart.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't think that he's trolling at this point.

I think that he's backed himself into a corner and knows that if he starts addressing points or debating properly his arguments are going to fall apart.

I think the people arguing with him here are unbelievably stupid. He didn't back himself into a corner, you create a corner and back him into it so that you can satisfy your psychological desperation and terror his faith makes you feel. You atheists have needs, a passion to correct illogical error, an intolerance of the irrationality you see in people of faith. You can't see from his perspective and he can't see from yours, and so together you both churn butter. Around and around you go over the same tired old themes and for what, to satisfy ego. All either side is trying to do is to defend the good, a good that does not exist. There is no god and there is no no-god. The truth is always a third way. You will find God or Truth or one of His multitude of other names when this rubbish is washed away.

 

[WelshBloke]

I think the people arguing with him here are unbelievably stupid. He didn't back himself into a corner, you create a corner and back him into it so that you can satisfy your psychological desperation and terror his faith makes you feel. You atheists have needs, a passion to correct illogical error, an intolerance of the irrationality you see in people of faith. You can't see from his perspective and he can't see from yours, and so together you both churn butter. Around and around you go over the same tired old themes and for what, to satisfy ego. All either side is trying to do is to defend the good, a good that does not exist. There is no god and there is no no-god. The truth is always a third way. You will find God or Truth or one of His multitude of other names when this rubbish is washed away.

This isn't about faith, it's not even about religion.

It's about free will and predestination.

But you know... keep up with the "self hate" thing if it rocks your jollies I guess.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's also about politeness and how to act in a discussion.

 

[sandorski]

Just a little something something.

 

[soulcougher73]

Just a little something something.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[shira]

I think the people arguing with him here are unbelievably stupid. He didn't back himself into a corner, you create a corner and back him into it so that you can satisfy your psychological desperation and terror his faith makes you feel. You atheists have needs, a passion to correct illogical error, an intolerance of the irrationality you see in people of faith. You can't see from his perspective and he can't see from yours, and so together you both churn butter. Around and around you go over the same tired old themes and for what, to satisfy ego. All either side is trying to do is to defend the good, a good that does not exist. There is no god and there is no no-god. The truth is always a third way. You will find God or Truth or one of His multitude of other names when this rubbish is washed away.

Sounds like you're continually trying to "defend the good" in your attempts to induce atheists and believers into accepting this "third way" you're preaching. Could it be that you have some need, some intolerance of the irrationality you see in believers and non-believers who insist on believing or not-believing?

If so, given your highly enlightened state, the stupidity of your own behavior seems even more profound than that which you see in others.

 

[Moonbeam]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Right, those ugly ugly religious believers who are ugly and not beautiful like us because we don't believe in gods and hate without using god's name. There is no escape for those who believe they know the good and it's so good to not hate in the name of god, but to hate those who hate in the name of god. Wow, how different! You bounce from pillar to post not knowing what it is to be empty.

 

[shira]

I don't think that he's trolling at this point.

I think that he's backed himself into a corner and knows that if he starts addressing points or debating properly his arguments are going to fall apart.

Well, I've corrected him at least three times, telling him that his insistence on restricting his point only to omniscience, as opposed to both omniscience and omnipotence, is erroneous. Thus, the fact that he continues to restrict his argument to omniscience is pretty damning.

 

[bshole]

I think the people arguing with him here are unbelievably stupid. He didn't back himself into a corner, you create a corner and back him into it so that you can satisfy your psychological desperation and terror his faith makes you feel. You atheists have needs, a passion to correct illogical error, an intolerance of the irrationality you see in people of faith. You can't see from his perspective and he can't see from yours, and so together you both churn butter. Around and around you go over the same tired old themes and for what, to satisfy ego. All either side is trying to do is to defend the good, a good that does not exist. There is no god and there is no no-god. The truth is always a third way. You will find God or Truth or one of His multitude of other names when this rubbish is washed away.

I just like to "discussing" stuff, it interests me. Dunno why you are on here if it is tiresome and boring to you.

Truth is unknowable IMHO. Why would you assert such a thing? The best we can do is discover natural laws that describe how the universe as we perceive it acts.

Please present some evidence that truth is knowable.

 

[Moonbeam]

Sounds like you're continually trying to "defend the good" in your attempts to induce atheists and believers into accepting this "third way" you're preaching. Could it be that you have some need, some intolerance of the irrationality you see in believers and non-believers who insist on believing or not-believing?

If so, given your highly enlightened state, the stupidity of your own behavior seems even more profound than that which you see in others.

For your sake I am willing to be stupid, since all alternatives lead to the same place. What I defend, however is that the good is that there is no good. I seem to be the only non-believer in the discussion. I do not have a truth to give you, only the intention to take yours away. You want to teach me, I want you to unlearn. Now you will turn this also into a competition because you can't stop your thoughts to listen. Your mind is a knife and what it does is cut, it separates one thing from another. Truth is a synthesis, a resolution of what is divided in a different understanding.

Good and evil are the product of thought which is the product of language which is the cause of conditioning, memory of ideas to which feelings have been attached via ones personal life experiences. Everything you believe is a product of thought and completely without meaning. There is only emptiness, the tabula rasa of the original self, that beautiful smiling baby shira, born a god only to be blown away. You may forget who you are but you are still who you are beneath all the rubbish.

 

[buckshot24]

Well, I've corrected him at least three times, telling him that his insistence on restricting his point only to omniscience, as opposed to both omniscience and omnipotence, is erroneous. Thus, the fact that he continues to restrict his argument to omniscience is pretty damning.

Power is irrelevant, that's why. Having the power to do something isn't sufficient reason to actually do it.

bshole made assertions about a certain text says then when challenged just plowed forward with further misrepresentations. This is dishonest argumentation and I don't need to deal with those kinds of people, so he's on ignore.

You, on the other hand have made assertions that you won't back up as well. Namely, that origin of life is "pretty well understood" which just so happens to be about the most ridiculous lie or sign of incompetence I've read in quite some time. I really would like you to explain yourself so we can determine if you were lying or just had no clue.

 

[Moonbeam]

I just like to "discussing" stuff, it interests me. Dunno why you are on here if it is tiresome and boring to you.

Truth is unknowable IMHO. Why would you assert such a thing? The best we can do is discover natural laws that describe how the universe as we perceive it acts.

Please present some evidence that truth is knowable.

First you tell me what the best we can do is and then you ask me for proof of truth. I will prove the truth exists when you let go of all your assumptions. Nobody with sense pours tea into a full cup.

 

[bshole]

For your sake I am willing to be stupid, since all alternatives lead to the same place. What I defend, however is that the good is that there is no good. I seem to be the only non-believer in the discussion. I do not have a truth to give you, only the intention to take yours away. You want to teach me, I want you to unlearn. Now you will turn this also into a competition because you can't stop your thoughts to listen. Your mind is a knife and what it does is cut, it separates one thing from another. Truth is a synthesis, a resolution of what is divided in a different understanding.

Good and evil are the product of thought which is the product of language which is the cause of conditioning, memory of ideas to which feelings have been attached via ones personal life experiences. Everything you believe is a product of thought and completely without meaning. There is only emptiness, the tabula rasa of the original self, that beautiful smiling baby shira, born a god only to be blown away. You may forget who you are but you are still who you are beneath all the rubbish.

I have not the slightest idea what the hell you are talking about. Is this some new wave, hippie lingo? I have read gnostic literature and you write in much the same way ---- indecipherable riddles. While I understand that mystics love communicating in this way, it is really not effective when dullards like myself are the core reading audience.