The internet is dead in canada... 25gb cap for everybody

[Howard]

let's also bring up the fact rogers and bell already throttle your connection (bittorrent). I had to change ISP's so I could avoid the throttle, now I have to change again to avoid the UBB. recockulous!

I suppose you could build a whole industry around activation fees, in these parts.

 

[Locut0s]

most of what goes on in the internet is superfluous. It's like a ball game.

Let's face it superfluous or not the internet has become a very important part of most peoples daily lives now. From business, communications, networking, relationships, to entertainment the internet informs and suffuses just about every aspect of our lives now. Some countries have gone as far as writing into their constitution that high speed internet access is a right of their citizens! With legit high bandwidth uses like streaming HD video, video conferencing, gaming, and more becoming more and more common this is the WORST time for companies to be enacting this kind of unnecessary cash grab that will only serve to stifle our participation in the global technological and even social scene.

 

[iCyborg]

what I don't understand is why they are saying we're using so much bandwidth, etc. but we have such a low population in comparison to other countries that don't have caps...something doesn't compute there.

The cost of building infrastructure is lower when the area is densely populated. Think South Korea and Japan, crazy speeds because they're packed.

I have unlimited 15 mb/s cable in fucking connecticut of all places for only $29 a month. I run SABNZBD + Sickbeard + couchpotato + Bittorent all the time and chew up 500-800 GB of bandwidth a month and I have never heard of a complaint for the cable company. There is no justification for a 25 GB cap.

See above: Connecticut is the 4th most densely populated state in the US. And USA has >300M population and lots more competition than Canada.

The title is a bit misleading, it's not 25GB for everybody, but 25GB for everybody on the cheapest plan. You can get 60, 80, 125 and in some areas 175GB on Rogers, but it costs more (and the plans come with progressively bigger speeds). Neither Bell nor Rogers has uncapped plans, and now they want to force the smaller ISPs to get rid of their flat rates. I don't mind paying for usage, I saw in a study that the top 1% users are responsible for 20% of traffic - people that use 200+ GB should pay way more than the average user who does like 10-15 GB (IIRC from the same study that was a year or two old, it was 11GB on average). Just gives us reasonably priced packages...

 

[coreyb]

You forgot the part where it only costs bell a penny or less per GB and they are charging like $2 for it? I'm with eyesurf in kitchener now, which doesn't use any of bell's lines. Back to unlimited downloading!

 

[coreyb]

The cost of building infrastructure is lower when the area is densely populated. Think South Korea and Japan, crazy speeds because they're packed.

See above: Connecticut is the 4th most densely populated state in the US. And USA has >300M population and lots more competition than Canada.

The title is a bit misleading, it's not 25GB for everybody, but 25GB for everybody on the cheapest plan. You can get 60, 80, 125 and in some areas 175GB on Rogers, but it costs more (and the plans come with progressively bigger speeds). Neither Bell nor Rogers has uncapped plans, and now they want to force the smaller ISPs to get rid of their flat rates. I don't mind paying for usage, I saw in a study that the top 1% users are responsible for 20% of traffic - people that use 200+ GB should pay way more than the average user who does like 10-15 GB (IIRC from the same study that was a year or two old, it was 11GB on average). Just gives us reasonably priced packages...

the average user? I can think of a lot of people that download games, youtube, netflix and EASILY go over 25gb within the first week of the month. we shouldn't have to pay over $100 a month for internet. bell and rogers have a monopoly and are raping us, simple as that.

 

[iCyborg]

An average user is obtained by looking at the total traffic and then dividing it by the number of all users, not by "thinking of a lot of people who spend this or that much".
Can you find a source that gives the cost per GB? Including the previous investments in laying the wires etc.? Seriously asking as I can't find this in my brief search.

Anyway, I agree that the prices are higher than USA and a good deal of other developed countries. But if you stream HD videos, buy tons of games from Steam and torrent the sh*t out of everything, then you SHOULD pay $100/mth for internet, and not pay the same ~$30 that someone who uses 5-10GB a month pays.
And btw, 75GB plan costs $50 directly from Bell, 125GB is $70 from Rogers, both come with premium speeds as well...

 

[coreyb]

An average user is obtained by looking at the total traffic and then dividing it by the number of all users, not by "thinking of a lot of people who spend this or that much".
Can you find a source that gives the cost per GB? Including the previous investments in laying the wires etc.? Seriously asking as I can't find this in my brief search.

Anyway, I agree that the prices are higher than USA and a good deal of other developed countries. But if you stream HD videos, buy tons of games from Steam and torrent the sh*t out of everything, then you SHOULD pay $100/mth for internet, and not pay the same ~$30 that someone who uses 5-10GB a month pays.
And btw, 75GB plan costs $50 directly from Bell, 125GB is $70 from Rogers, both come with premium speeds as well...

What amazing deals by Bell and Rogers. I could go for that...OR I could go with eyesurf and get unlimited downloading for $50. It's amazing how some companies actually care about the consumer and not just pure profit and rape.

 

[coreyb]

An average user is obtained by looking at the total traffic and then dividing it by the number of all users, not by "thinking of a lot of people who spend this or that much".
Can you find a source that gives the cost per GB? Including the previous investments in laying the wires etc.? Seriously asking as I can't find this in my brief search.

Anyway, I agree that the prices are higher than USA and a good deal of other developed countries. But if you stream HD videos, buy tons of games from Steam and torrent the sh*t out of everything, then you SHOULD pay $100/mth for internet, and not pay the same ~$30 that someone who uses 5-10GB a month pays.
And btw, 75GB plan costs $50 directly from Bell, 125GB is $70 from Rogers, both come with premium speeds as well...

let's not forget both these companies also throttle their connections on top of their small bandwidth caps.

they want to make it as painful as possible for people to have alternatives to rogers and bell television and internet.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Money/1239849460/ID=1506514011

check out the lang & oleary exchange. the discussion starts at 35 mins in. a rep. from teksavvy internet totally owns the bell rep and explains the situation pretty clearly.

 

[duragezic]

Well 25gb cap is terrible but it doesn't mean the internet is dead in Canada, especially when they revealed the higher end plans that have higher caps. Still too low though IMO. A lot of people complained about the 250gb Comcast cap but honestly I think that's pretty fair.

A lot of these idiots download as much shit as they can click and rack up over 1 TB in a month! I'd guess an average enthusiast with Steam, some Netflix, etc might hit 100-200 GB/mo which is fine but how do you really do 10x that?

Finally this motivated me to get a BW monitor (got Netlimiter 2 Mon cause it's freeware) as I've been curious what I use. I watch quite a bit of Youtube and other streaming video, as well as gaming and occasional Steam downloads, but nothing much otherwise.

As far as I know, TWC doesn't have any kind of set cap at this point. I guess they tried it in a few markets but ended it. I doubt I'd mind if it had a reasonable cap, but just because it's "unlimited" doesn't mean I max it out 24 hours per day just because I can.

 

[dennilfloss]

Looks like Mr. Clement has had a word with the boss. With some established history of going against the wishes of our established telecom industry, I'm guessing at the very least that the CRTC will be ordered to either raise the cap from 25 GB or give wholesale customers like Teksavvy better than a 15% discount.

PM orders review of Internet billing

Hope so. This also affect the networks who offer programs (with ads at some intervals, just like on TV) online. I like to watch Radio-Canada's web archive of their programs, tou.tv, but that is bandwidth intensive as just the movie Nouvelle-France, for example, is a 1.4GB .flv. What's the point of Radio-Canada offering this or CTV having their programs being able to be watched online if we have a piddly bandwidth limit.

http://www.tou.tv/nouvelle-france

 

[sdifox]

well if Bell and Rogers are really just trying to be fair, they should not be subsidising their video on demand business by excluding them in their internet usage meter. That is anti-competitive as hell.

 

[sdifox]

An average user is obtained by looking at the total traffic and then dividing it by the number of all users, not by "thinking of a lot of people who spend this or that much".
Can you find a source that gives the cost per GB? Including the previous investments in laying the wires etc.? Seriously asking as I can't find this in my brief search.

Anyway, I agree that the prices are higher than USA and a good deal of other developed countries. But if you stream HD videos, buy tons of games from Steam and torrent the sh*t out of everything, then you SHOULD pay $100/mth for internet, and not pay the same ~$30 that someone who uses 5-10GB a month pays.
And btw, 75GB plan costs $50 directly from Bell, 125GB is $70 from Rogers, both come with premium speeds as well...

you are not getting the point. no one said high usage users should not pay more. Bell and Rogers just want to wipe out the small operators period.

And do you think it is fair for people using 5-10gb a month to pay 30? I don't think so. The ISPs should not have it both ways. BTW, if 5% of internet user accounts for 50% of the traffic, then the other 95% is subsidising these 5%. I have yet to see a quarterly report that says the internet division is losing money.

Internet service has been becoming ever more expensive while their cost keep dropping. Yay, good thing we were a leader in internet adoption due to reasonable internet pricing, ten years ago.

 

[KMFJD]

20gb cap and either 2$/gb after that or slow down to 128kb....not sure which they will decide on...and that was before the crtc ruling...and to top it all off they oversubscribed the node as usual and speeds just get slower and slower, and i have the privilege to pay $56 a month for this....and there is no other isp that services our area....

 

[sdifox]

This shit just got real... got this in the email today.

Dear Acanac Customer,

The CRTC just decided to allow Bell Canada to charge independent ISPs, like Acanac Inc., what's called "usage-based billing"(UBB)on our customers.

This means that Bell will force us to pay usages fees similar to those that Bell charges to its own retail customers, when you exceed certain limits. Bell and other Big Telecom companies are obviously trying to gouge consumers, control the Internet market, and ensure that consumers continue to subscribe to their television services.

If we do not fight this you will have no choice but to pay MORE for LESS Internet. This will crush innovative services, Canada's digital competitiveness, and your wallet.

250,000 people across Canada have already signed the petition to stop these companies from charging you more. Signing the petition automatically sends Industry Minister Tony Clement an email. This is our best chance to stop usage-based billing.

Please Sign the Stop The Meter petition at: http://stopthemeter.ca/ Please also help us spread the word to your friends and neighbors.

Please make your voices heard. If we don't stop UBB, as of March 4th, 2011, Acanac will make the following changes to accommodate the charges that will be FORCED on us and subsequently you, our valued customers:

Ontario Residential 5Mbps DSL Plan:
First 25GB at up-to 5Mbps. Beyond 25GB your speeds will be reduced to 100Kbps with unlimited transfer.

If you wish to remain at up-to 5Mbps, you can buy an additional 100GB of transfer for $9.95 per month. Beyond 125GB, speeds will be reduced to 100Kbps with unlimited transfer.

Quebec Residential 5Mbps DSL Plan:
First 60GB at up-to 5Mbps. Beyond 60GB, your speeds will be reduced to 100Kbps with unlimited transfer.

If you wish to remain at up-to 5Mbps, you can buy an additional 100GB of transfer for $9.95 per month. Beyond 160GB speeds will be reduced to 100Kbps with unlimited transfer.

Ontario & Quebec Residential MLPPP DSL Plans:
Same as above but multiply it by the number of lines you have. If you have 2 lines or Home 10Mbps in Ontario, you would get 50GB included and you can buy an additional 200GB for $19.90. Once you reach your allocated transfer, your speeds will be reduced to 100Kbps per line with unlimited transfer. In this scenario you would have a total of 200Kbps after 250GB of usage.




What if the transfer options above are not enough?

Priority number one is to sign the Stop The Meter petition at:
http://stopthemeter.ca/

In addition to signing the petition you can use an Online PC as a bypass to the imposed usage-based billing on you by Bell and the CRTC. In partnership with http://www.zazeen.com/, you can continue downloading at over 1TB or 1000GB a month for as little as $23.95 per month.

How does this work?
Instead of downloading your data directly to your local computer, it is downloaded onto your Online PC located in our DATA Center. Your Online PC is connected to multiple Fiber optic lines capable of over 30Gbps or 30,000Mbps. This will bypass the Bell copper lines and the imposed usage-based billing.

Once the Data is downloaded onto the online PC how do I get it to my local computer?

Secure overnight DATA Shipment.

Step One:
Copy or move the Data that is to be shipped into an encrypted file container that only you have access to. (Provided within the Online PC)

Step Two:
Ship Zazeen a SATA Hard Drive with enough capacity to hold your encrypted DATA content. If you ship a hard drive that has more space than your Online PC, we can hold on to it until you fill it up completely. With Hard Drives currently passing over 2TB or 2000GB, you can continue to download without any additional UBB fees.

Step Three:
Zazeen will now copy your encrypted data onto the supplied Hard Drive. At this point, we will ship it overnight via FedEx: Acanac subscribers get 1 free data shipment per month.
More info at http://www.zazeen.com/Data-Shipment.html

Click below for an in depth video presentation of Zazeen's Online PC service. http://www.zazeen.com/Zazeen-Intro/Zazeen-Intro.html

Bandwidth Transfer tracking:
On Feb 20th, 2011, Acanac Inc. will have a new Internet usage section in the Management Area of our Web Site located at https://www.acanac.com/Login-Section.html In this location you will be able to pre-purchase additional usage blocks and check your daily bandwidth usage.

Once again please DO NOT FORGET TO SIGN the Stop The Meter petition at: http://stopthemeter.ca/



Best Regards,
Acanac Inc.
www.acanac.com
support@acanac.com
Telephone: +1 (866) 281?3538
Toronto 1-416-849-8520
Montreal 1-514-667-4304
Vancouver 1-778-786-4196
Ottawa 1-613-686-5217
Calgary 1-403-451-6156
Corporate Office
1650 Dundas Street East. Unit 204,
Mississauga, Ontario,
Canada
L4X 2Z3

 

[meltdown75]

more comments on Harper stepping in on the issue? anyone think it will be overturned? delayed? cap raised? comments appreciated

 

[iCyborg]

What amazing deals by Bell and Rogers. I could go for that...OR I could go with eyesurf and get unlimited downloading for $50. It's amazing how some companies actually care about the consumer and not just pure profit and rape.

Yes, you could, until they introduce caps as well, unless CRTC's plan is overturned.
And my brother-in-law switched from Rogers to Acanac and has unlimited for $20 or so. He also complains of frequent blackouts and problems with his phone line which I can attest to: at least once a month I call and get rerouted to voicemail immediatelly, although he didn't do anything. He's been thinking of switching back. I'm sure there are small ISPs with good services and support, but it's a hit-and-miss...

And I'm not saying Bell's and Rogers' deals are great, I'm saying that your claims that everyone using more than 25GB shouldn't pay over $100 a month are greatly exaggerated.

 

[iCyborg]

you are not getting the point. no one said high usage users should not pay more. Bell and Rogers just want to wipe out the small operators period.

Just a couple of posts earlier I said, quote: "Neither Bell nor Rogers has uncapped plans, and now they want to force the smaller ISPs to get rid of their flat rates."
I really don't see how you concluded that I didn't get the point when I made the same point earlier... Nor do I support CRTC's cause anywhere.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

more comments on Harper stepping in on the issue? anyone think it will be overturned? delayed? cap raised? comments appreciated

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2011/02/01/internet-usage-based-billing-clement.html

Apparently the decision is now under review, since the opposition parties, including the Liberals, are opposed to it. The Conservatives are now going to review the ruling.

Industry Minister Tony Clement said the government would decide by March 1 whether to accept the decision, send it back for review, or reject it.

Have hope, fellow Canucks!

 

[Ninjahedge]

sdi, looks like what I have been suggesting.

$20 for 200G is only 10¢ a gig, reasonable. But that 5Mb -> 100Kb is brutal! It is still good enough to play most games, but not good enough to stream just about anything!

Maybe they should offer a third option (or fourth).

Pre-pay monthly for a chunk @10¢/G or just pay-as-you-go over that for 15¢. If you do not see yourself using the entire chunk then the PAYG model would be cheaper.

Fourth option, pay a small fee ($5/mo) for unlimited reduced rate. You still pay on the UBB, but the cost per month is lower... i have no idea what would work for that (and the prices could be different depending on how many options you end up offering).

What people have to realize is that the net is a luxury, as pointed out. What they should be fighting is not the new pricing scheme, but a FAIR PRICE.

Just keep in mind, you are not only paying just for the cost to transmit the data, but care, maintainence, and future expansion of the system. If you are the ones that are taxing out the system because of high BW, you should bear the brunt of the cost of expansion/improvement.

But $2/G is extortion.

 

[sdifox]

sdi, looks like what I have been suggesting.

$20 for 200G is only 10¢ a gig, reasonable. But that 5Mb -> 100Kb is brutal! It is still good enough to play most games, but not good enough to stream just about anything!

Maybe they should offer a third option (or fourth).

Pre-pay monthly for a chunk @10¢/G or just pay-as-you-go over that for 15¢. If you do not see yourself using the entire chunk then the PAYG model would be cheaper.

Fourth option, pay a small fee ($5/mo) for unlimited reduced rate. You still pay on the UBB, but the cost per month is lower... i have no idea what would work for that (and the prices could be different depending on how many options you end up offering).

What people have to realize is that the net is a luxury, as pointed out. What they should be fighting is not the new pricing scheme, but a FAIR PRICE.

Just keep in mind, you are not only paying just for the cost to transmit the data, but care, maintainence, and future expansion of the system. If you are the ones that are taxing out the system because of high BW, you should bear the brunt of the cost of expansion/improvement.

But $2/G is extortion.

We'll see what the government will do. MLPPP is like double the price of DSL.

 

[AMDZen]

I must come in one more time to LOL @ Canadians

 

[ShawnD1]

For the sake of curiosity, I'm running a bandwidth monitor on my work computer. Today I downloaded some updated files from a server in another city, I sent out a few emails with attachments, I posted on anandtech for a while, and I read a few fark articles. Today's bandwidth usage: 700.21mb downloaded and 63.65mb uploaded

Keep in mind this is on a work computer. I do not have access to youtube. I cannot access break.com or any streaming music. All of the local radio station websites are blocked. Imagine how much bandwidth would be used if I had access to youtube.

 

[Chaotic42]

How about the content providers determine their cost per GB served to consumers and charge it plus an acceptable amount of profit? So, and I'm making up numbers here,

Maintenance/R&D/Staffing/etc cost per GB served: $0.25
10% profit: $0.025
Consumer cost per GB served: $0.275

 

[Patranus]

For the sake of curiosity, I'm running a bandwidth monitor on my work computer. Today I downloaded some updated files from a server in another city, I sent out a few emails with attachments, I posted on anandtech for a while, and I read a few fark articles. Today's bandwidth usage: 700.21mb downloaded and 63.65mb uploaded

Keep in mind this is on a work computer. I do not have access to youtube. I cannot access break.com or any streaming music. All of the local radio station websites are blocked. Imagine how much bandwidth would be used if I had access to youtube.

Does that number include intranet overhead as well?

 

[ShawnD1]

Does that number include intranet overhead as well?

The office just moved and we don't yet have a local server. Each workstation has its own internet connection and we need to log into the company network as if we were at home. On your work computer you probably just turn it on and it has all these network locations, but for us we need to go to a certain website and log into the VPN. We're also using the remote Outlook to fetch our email; basically it's just like gmail until the network is back to normal.

So to answer your question, that number DOES NOT include intranet overhead. 700mb is all 100% internet.