The Intel Atom Thread

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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Intel did in fact have a Wide-I/O 2 version of Broxton in the works, but it was likely axed.
Too bad it doesn't show memory configuration on GFXBench.

The game test results and the ALU results are excellent but the texturing results are not.

The results for the ALU seems to scale with EUs, but unless Broxton has 48EUs running 33% faster than Airmont GPU or so it doesn't make sense. The texturing result doesn't make sense if there's 48 EUs because then it should be comparable with Iris parts that have eDRAM, not be a fraction of it and be lower than Iris ones without eDRAM.

The T-Rex results seem a strength for Gen 9 versus Gen 8 when also compared with Manhattan.
 
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mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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Intel Atom 'Broxton' - Geekbench & GFXBench: First Results

Some early Broxton results, after such a long wait. The chip is being recognized as a 2.3GHz Pentium II/III by Geekbench. Assuming 2.3 GHz clockspeed I find the results rather promissing. Not on the same level as high-end ARM SoCs, but already >30% faster than an average Atom x7-Z8700 (not bad for an ES):

- Geekbench 3
Single-core: 1301
Multi-core: 4385

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/6034406

This Broxton belongs to A0 stepping I think. Stepping 8 is referred to A0 and Bios version is the same like in this one:
Hardware Platform: Broxton P A0 Platform CPU Name : Intel(R) @ 1.2 GHz (family: 6, model: 92, stepping: 8) 4 cores
SoC : BROXTON-P A0 CRB : Apollo Lake LPDDR3 RVP1A
Software Ubuntu 15.10 64 bits BIOS (IFWI Version): 129.10 - APLKRVPA.X64.0129.B10.1603140006
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94123


There is a B Stepping of Broxton.

http://www.eenyhelp.com/patch-mfd-lpss-add-pci-ids-intel-broxton-b-step-platform-help-215923630.html


Third variant of Broxton it seems.
Add support for third Intel Broxton variant
http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-spi/msg06955.html


Another possibility is that Broxton comes with A-Stepping into the market initially and later a B-Stepping. Intel does a similar thing with Kabylake (no integrated HDCP 2.2 in the first ULV SKUs)
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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No infos if they are other changes beside that.
By the way, there should be. In the world of CPU, 10% is pretty good. In the world of GPUs though, even 25% sucks. Nevermind zero.

I think with 14nm discrete GPUs coming Kabylake GT4e should be minimum 2x over Skylake GT4e. But Intel has been disappointing in quite a lot of places so perhaps it'll be the first time we see zero graphics gains.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Well unfortunately for some of us, budget Windows tablet/convertible fans, Intel cancelled Broxton. Looking at the cost-savings promised for Apollo Lake, I don't get why they would cancel it so close to launch while keeping the (possibly more) expensive Cherry Trail on the market.

Anyway, I would like to know your opinion on another subject. Could Apollo Lake be a viable alternative to Broxton for larger >9'' Windows convertibles and maybe tablets?

Here's some Braswell-based systems:

- Acer Convertible Chromebook R11, 11.6-inch HD Touchscreen Notebook, White (CB5-132T-C32M)
www.amazon.com/Acer-Convertible-Chromebook-Touchscreen-CB5-132T-C32M/dp/B0161DGXIC/ref=zg_bs_13896609011_6
- Acer Aspire R 11 R3-131T-P7HA 11.6" Signature Edition Laptop, Windows 10 - Sky Blue
www.amazon.com/Acer-R3-131T-P7HA-Signature-Edition-Windows/dp/B014LGK1P2/ref=zg_bs_13896609011_16
- ASUS Transformer Book Flip TP200SA 11.6-inch 2-in-1 Touchscreen Laptop (Intel Braswell Dual Core N3050 1.6GHz, 4GB RAM, 64GB SSD , Windows 10 Pre-installed)
http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-11-6-inch-Touchscreen-Braswell-Pre-installed/dp/B014854RBK/ref=zg_bs_13896609011_17
- Dell Inspiron i3000-10099SLV 11.6 Inch Touchscreen 2-in-1 Laptop (Intel Pentium, 4 GB RAM, 500 GB HDD, Moonlight Silver)
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-i3000-10099SLV-Touchscreen-Moonlight/dp/B019TTJ418/ref=zg_bs_13896609011_30
- 2016 Newest Lenovo Flex 3 2-in-1 11.6 inch HD Touch-Screen Convertible Laptop ( Intel Celeron processor N3050, 4GB, 500GB HDD, No DVD, Bluetooth, Webcam, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 ) - Black
http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Flex-Touch-Screen-Convertible-processor/dp/B01AYHQT76/ref=zg_bs_13896609011_56
- HP Pavilion 11-k161nr Convertible Laptop Intel Pentium N3700 (1.6 GHz) 500 GB HDD Intel HD Graphics Shared memory 11.6" Touchscreen Windows 10 Home
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834264255

As a side note:

Western European tablet sales "dramatically declined" in Q4 2015, as consumers looked to alternative devices such as two-in-one detachables and convertible notebooks, according to analyst Context.
*A little over $400 already buys a Core M tablet. Not Cherry Trail 'cheap' and definitely larger devices, but generally higher-quality as well.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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Well unfortunately for some of us, budget Windows tablet/convertible fans, Intel cancelled Broxton. Looking at the cost-savings promised for Apollo Lake, I don't get why they would cancel it so close to launch while keeping the (possibly more) expensive Cherry Trail on the market.

Anyway, I would like to know your opinion on another subject. Could Apollo Lake be a viable alternative to Broxton for larger >9'' Windows and convertibles and maybe tablets?
Sure, Apollo Lake is targeted at cheap PCs, and low cost 11.6" convertibles fit the bill.

It's iPad-like pure tablets that Broxton was probably aimed at.
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
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Lol, crazy, Aicha Adams apparently has now said 2 years (2 MWCs) in a row that she her job at Intel is on the line if she doesn't deliver.

Secondly, at Mobile World Congress 2016 in February, Aicha Evans said that she wanted a big contract in 2016, otherwise we might not see her in 2017.
Hope at the next MWC she says she has to deliver 14nm modems or get fired. FFS, Infineon was acquired in 2011 IIRC.

Do your internal sources have any comments about that, Arachnotronic?
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
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Ooh. Ouch. According to this, the future of Apollo Lake is questionable. But this is reassuring:
"In terms of Cherry Trail, form factor boundaries are increasingly blurring in the mobile computing market, and we no longer look at tablets as a stand-alone segment," an Intel spokeswoman said in an email Friday afternoon. "Our product roadmap reflects that. We will continue to support our tablet customers with Sofia 3G/3GR, Bay Trail and Cherry Trail now, and later with Apollo Lake and some SKUs from our Core processor family."
Source.
That means the HP Stream will get an upgrade. Good.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Nice find ehume, this means phones are the main victims of the Broxton cancellation. Bay Trail/Cherry Trail remains the option for cheap chinese tablets, while Apollo Lake finds its way to larger yet still affordable tablets/convertibles and premium (>$400) devices get Core M.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Intel: Apollo Lake will be offered to tablet consumers

Ryan Smith (AnandTech Editor in Chief) said:
A quick update from @intel PR today: confirmed that Apollo Lake will be offered to tablet customers. So we will see Goldmont tablets
Ryan Smith (AnandTech Editor in Chief) said:
However we're still not entirely clear on the impact of Apollo Lake vs. Willow Trail. Whether features/perf/power are different, etc
https://twitter.com/RyanSmithAT/status/727296885459816448
 

Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
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The second tweet is odd: Apollo Lake will obviously have more CPU performance thanks to the new core.
 

TeknoBug

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2013
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Nice find ehume, this means phones are the main victims of the Broxton cancellation. Bay Trail/Cherry Trail remains the option for cheap chinese tablets, while Apollo Lake finds its way to larger yet still affordable tablets/convertibles and premium (>$400) devices get Core M.
Saw 2 Intel compute sticks with M3 and M5 Core M's for $499 CAD and $699 CAD, holy christ!
 

bhtooefr

Member
Jan 2, 2004
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The second tweet is odd: Apollo Lake will obviously have more CPU performance thanks to the new core.
Willow Trail (the tablet Broxton part) would have had the same new core.

And, the new core doesn't always have more performance. Williamette, early Prescott, and Bulldozer, anyone?
 

Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
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Willow Trail (the tablet Broxton part) would have had the same new core.
Ah, I miserably fail at knowing exactly what is what... I'll put the blame on Intel silly names :D

And, the new core doesn't always have more performance. Williamette, early Prescott, and Bulldozer, anyone?
Geekbench of Broxton ES has shown some speedup over Airmont based chips. Disappointing against ARM cores, but still better than previous Atom.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Apollo Lake will consist in several dual cores, we all know how that will turn out, thats the thing with the old tablet Atom, they where all quads.

So a Z8300/Z8350 will probably be reemplaced by a dual core Apollo Lake, at both higher cost and less battery.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Apollo Lake is a quad-core. I expect both 2C and 4C SKUs inside the new tablets.

 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Apollo Lake is a quad-core. I expect both 2C and 4C SKUs inside the new tablets.

What do you prefer? Z8300 or N3000/N3050?

The thing with the tablet variant was to cut unussed pins, reduce power by disabling things that tablet does not need, and they where all quads... now we must assume that most Cherry Trails will be reeplaced by dual core skus.
 
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ksec

Senior member
Mar 5, 2010
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I have always thought Goldmont / Broxton was going to offer Office PC a good run for money. However I just did a Geekbench on our old Office PC, which has a 45nm Penyrn installed. The results were similar to Broxton in single core benchmarks. But Broxton had 4 core, so I took a Core 2 Quad Q8300, running with 200Mhz advantage.

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/6555658?baseline=6034406

Assuming the % of Mhz were involved, both would have had similar performance. But Broxton had the advantage of much more recent instruction set to achieve this!

We dont have a Core 2 Quad to test in office, but when we installed a new Plextor M7V SSD on the Office PC ( Core 2 Duo ), running handicapped SATA 3Gbps, it was obvious the bottleneck moved from I/O to CPU. We see "some" CPU spike during the work load. Comparing to a newer Office PC with SandyBridge with the same Plextor M7V SSD, it was very rare we see peak spikes. Obviously the SandyBridge had 2C4T while Core 2 Duo only had 2C2T.

I was hoping Broxton would be closer to Sandy Bridge or Nehalem.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Ooh. Ouch. According to this, the future of Apollo Lake is questionable. But this is reassuring:
Source.
That means the HP Stream will get an upgrade. Good.
But seems that the era of the cheap laptop and convertible is about to end... Maybe is good since we will see Core Pentium and Celeron again and why not? The return of AMD on that segment.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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First Apollo Lake design win. :)

Latest ECS LIVA mini-PCs include Apollo Lake, Intel vPro models



The new LIVA Z seems to be one of the first desktops powered by an Intel Apollo Lake processor. ECS says the small form-factor computer will be available with Celeron or Pentium chips based on Intel’s next-gen low-power processor architecture.

Apollo Lake is basically a replacement for the Braswell chips that are found in many of today’s low-cost laptops, including the Celeron N3060 and N3160, Pentium N3710.
http://liliputing.com/2016/06/latest-ecs-liva-mini-pcs-include-apollo-lake-intel-vpro-models.html
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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These are the new Apollo Lake based models, according to CPU-World:

Celeron J3355 - FH8066802986000 SR2YC
Celeron J3455 - FH8066802986102 SR2YD
Celeron N3450 - FH8066802979803 SR2YA
Celeron N3350 - FH8066802980002 SR2YB
Pentium J4205 - FH8066802986200 SR2YE
Pentium N4200 - FH8066802979703 SR2Y9
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Microsoft Confirms Surface 3 Production To End In December



File this under “I’m not shocked” but Microsoft has confirmed today that the Surface 3 tablet will cease production by the end of December. The Surface 3 first launched way back in the spring of 2015, and after its review it quickly jumped to the top of the stack in the Windows tablet space. The design, excellent display, and 3:2 aspect ratio still makes it one of the best sub-$500 Windows tablets today.

So the news that it’s going to cease production in six months is not especially exciting – after all it will be going on two years old by that point. The real question is what is going to come next. The Surface 3 is a Cherry Trail Atom design, with a quad-core x7-8700 processor. The successor to Cherry Trail has been axed by Intel though, leaving a big gap in Intel’s lineup. They have confirmed that Apollo Lake will be available for tablet makers, but it’s certainly not a drop-in replacement for Cherry Trail.
www.anandtech.com/show/10442/microsoft-confirms-surface-3-production-to-end-in-december

The Surface 3 may be the cheapest tablet Microsoft makes, but priced at $499 and up it’s actually pretty expensive for a Windows tablet with an Intel Atom processor.

The point might be moot though: Intel is discontinuing its Atom chip lineup. If Microsoft is planning to launch a Surface 4 tablet it’ll most likely feature a different processor such as an Intel Core M chip or maybe an Intel Celeron or Pentium processor that’s part of the Apollo Lake family of low-power processors (which are sort of cousins to the soon-to-be-late Atom processors).
http://liliputing.com/2016/06/microsofts-low-power-surface-3-tablet-way.html

This puts the future of the Surface line in doubt.

- Will they discontinue their cheaper tablet line?
- Will they replace it with a faster Cherry Trail SoC (Atom x7-Z8750 or another)?
- Is an Apollo Lake Surface on the cards? Can they design a sleek, fanless tablet based on a 6W Pentium N4200?
- Would 3rd Gen Celeron/Pentium Core M (Kaby Lake-Y) be an option, starting at $499?
 

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