The Intel Atom Thread

[witeken]

It's pretty clear that Intel's mobile execution is just not good.

Maybe because of 14nm problems?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Maybe because of 14nm problems?

That's probably part of it, but I think that the problems run deeper than that.

 

[witeken]

That's probably part of it, but I think that the problems run deeper than that.

I honestly can't understand. Certainly because of all the money it's costing them.

 

[therealnickdanger]

I honestly can't understand. Certainly because of all the money it's costing them.

But imagine the losses if they didn't have Atom to sell. You have to view Atom in the proper context - it's sloughing off wafers with poor yields. It's like da Vinci selling bits of marble from his sculptures or swatches from his paintings. Whether or not Intel makes a profit on Atom isn't important - all that's important is financially supporting the process as a whole. At least, that's how I look at it.

Honestly, I can't justify spending more than $200 on anything with Atom. $380 will get you an i5-5200. And it's actually really good, especially compared to Atom.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/451147/Aspire_E5-573-516D_156_Laptop_Computer_-_Charcoal_Gray

Many games are actually playable:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmCC8789U9__fobYFTYsPgOZ4qPkmcfwU

 

[dark zero]

It's extremely sad. I don't know what happened, but if you view Intel as a black box that puts out processors, then Intel's execution since the dawn of Atom like 8 years ago has been the pinnacle of lackluster.

I have listened to the AnandTech podcasts 10 to 13 now, which are around the end of 2812, and somewhere they talked about... 22nn Valley view (Atom for phone) being delayed to 2014. In 2013 it became apparent it would be H2 of that year. In 2014, when Moorefield didn't really show up although it wasn't too bad, but who knows why OEMs preferred the octacores, Broxton got delayed to 2016 together with Sofia 14nn, and in early 2015 Sofia 3G, Sofia quadcore didn't really show up and now we know Sofia 4G is early 2016. We also know that Sofia 14nm and possibly Broxton is pushed to the end of 2016.

And never mind the Trails for tablets. They got their 46M in 2014 and they are in some nice cheap laptops or convertibles, but no major Samsung or so design wins and only at the very end of 2013. Willow Trail, if real, got cancelled, Cherry from Q4 to I dunno, but CT is simply beyond boring. I haven't even seen reviews of it, although rumor has it that it and Braswell are on the market.

I thought Brian Krzanich was like really pushing for mobile and he wanted to succeed there, and all the talk and apologies at Investor Meeting, but so far he's doing worse than Otellini, which many would have thought was impossible. Maybe good that Eul is gone.

So to go full circle, Anand was saying that for Intel it's always a story of waiting for the next thing on the horizon. Almost 3 years later, we're still in the same position.

But now things will be different. Now there will be other big cores like A72 and Kryo. So Broxton can go straight to low and mid end, and hopefully someone at Intel noticed how sluggish things were going with Atom and decided to do the same for Cannonlake like they did with Broadwell, but from 4W to 2W and with integrated modem.

What are those guys at Infineon and Atom doing?!

At least they are in the profitable datacenter with Xeon and Altera... Might have been a better purchase than Qualcomm.

SoFia seems to be the dissaster in every aspect. Really bad specs (DDR2? 28nm? 1.0Ghz DUAL core? U mad Intel?) and features makes them the ET of Intel Mobile. Plus is pricier than a stronger quad Allwinner or even a Mediatek.

And to make it worse.. OEMs are so retarded that they can ask Intel to use the Atom x3... On a AIO!

 

[Shivansps]

Sofia 3G was meant for very very cheap smartphones market, where they are still using dual A7s, it does not seems too bad compared to that.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I honestly can't understand. Certainly because of all the money it's costing them.

You can throw all the money you'd like at a problem, but if that money isn't being used effectively, you're not going to get good results.

 

[dark zero]

Sofia 3G was meant for very very cheap smartphones market, where they are still using dual A7s, it does not seems too bad compared to that.

Even Dual A7's are stronger and perform better due instructions usage. Also... Dual's A7 are near extinct since Quads A7 are the new lowest.

 

[Shivansps]

No way, A7 are just slow, there is just no way that a dual core BT based core to be slower than that, even at 1ghz.

Still, i think they are meant for very low smartphones, <$50 low

 

[jhu]

No way, A7 are just slow, there is just no way that a dual core BT based core to be slower than that, even at 1ghz.

Still, i think they are meant for very low smartphones, <$50 low

That's what they intend for it. Wonder if they replaced the ARM-based modem with an x86-based one?

 

[dark zero]

No way, A7 are just slow, there is just no way that a dual core BT based core to be slower than that, even at 1ghz.

Still, i think they are meant for very low smartphones, <$50 low

People won't buy a <$50 smartphone. They buy a feature phone due the battery and also it won't be the main phone after all.

 

[Face2Face]

You can grab a entry level soFIA SOC tablet now at Banggood for cheap - http://www.banggood.com/Teclast-X70...4-Tablet-p-976904.html?p=QZ14021624945201505Y

The problem is... they're slow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBohGKWLbX8

 

[Nothingness]

No way, A7 are just slow, there is just no way that a dual core BT based core to be slower than that, even at 1ghz.

Are you sure? http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/3230125?baseline=3186034
The difference is not that big especially since a lot of Cortex-A7 are running at much higher frequency than that and that the faster Cortex-A53 is starting to replace A7 at the lower end.

 

[dark zero]

Also... Android has not all their Apps made for x86 platform and if can compile, the performance is somewhat lower at all.
And to add insult to the injury the GPU is really awful.

Also SoFia seems to be a heavily nerfed Bay Trail and I won't be surprised if the AMD C-50 can match and even defeat it. Or even worse... The VIA C3 becames competent (any Nano X2 vaporizes that chip)

 

[Roland00Address]

Guys dual A7 are about the same speed as the cpus used in the iPad 2 from 2011. A 1.8ghz baytrail atom is over twice the speed of the iPad 4 in single thread and 4 times in multithread. The ipad 5 aka the iPad air is a little faster than baytrail 1.8ghz but baytrail catches up in multithread and trades blows.

Sofia 3g is in 1.0 and 1.2 ghz varieties so we are talking 55 to 66% the performance of the midrange baytrail which means it is still faster than the iPad 4 but not as much and it is night and day faster than the iPad 2.

Yes it is cheap, yes it should not be used in tablets over $100 or cellphones over $150. Spend more and you get the better baytrail like the $80 Hp stream or about $120 starting for 2gb model, or go 22nm moorefield and get the Asus zenfone 2.

 

[Pinecallado]

But imagine the losses if they didn't have Atom to sell. You have to view Atom in the proper context - it's sloughing off wafers with poor yields. It's like da Vinci selling bits of marble from his sculptures or swatches from his paintings. Whether or not Intel makes a profit on Atom isn't important - all that's important is financially supporting the process as a whole. At least, that's how I look at it.

Honestly, I can't justify spending more than $200 on anything with Atom. $380 will get you an i5-5200. And it's actually really good, especially compared to Atom.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/451147/Aspire_E5-573-516D_156_Laptop_Computer_-_Charcoal_Gray

Many games are actually playable:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmCC8789U9__fobYFTYsPgOZ4qPkmcfwU

I have an 2014 Acer Aspire with an i5-4210U. Despite the fact that my laptop has an i5, it runs very slow and Acer has made it a headache to replace the HDD. Many Atom computers seem to come with an SSD now. An atom laptop with an SSD will feel faster than an haswell/broadwell laptop with an HDD.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Many Atom computers seem to come with an SSD now. An atom laptop with an SSD will feel faster than an haswell/broadwell laptop with an HDD.

Actually, that's not exactly the case. Atom with SSD(or correctly "eMMC" since regular SSDs are far more capable) might be responsive, but pretty slow when it needs to do calculations.

Haswell/Broadwell with HDD "feels" slow, but actual programs will run at fast speeds. And its not like CPU is a zero contributor to responsiveness. It can be, but it is severely hampered with slow storage.

I honestly can't understand. Certainly because of all the money it's costing them.

Atom has indirect benefits to Intel, which arguably more than makes up for the losses.

Why?

Because it allows for super cheap "regular" laptops. It effectively counters not only most of AMD sales, but ARM's penetration to the low end as well. You can see from their earnings results that really cheap desktops and laptops contributed significantly to their revenue. Intel actually suffered when they went away from selling and advancing Netbooks to promoting $1000+ "Ultrabooks".

You have everyone who wants the cheapest computers to those that wants every feature with money being no objection. Prohibiting the market actually hurts the entire market.

 

[trivik12]

Is there no mention of broxton. I thought we will get more details.

 

[therealnickdanger]

I have an 2014 Acer Aspire with an i5-4210U. Despite the fact that my laptop has an i5, it runs very slow and Acer has made it a headache to replace the HDD. Many Atom computers seem to come with an SSD now. An atom laptop with an SSD will feel faster than an haswell/broadwell laptop with an HDD.

Feeling more responsive due to disk IO, but actually being horrendously slower for literally everything else is not a fair trade. I'm not questioning your skills to disassemble/reassemble notebooks, but I haven't yet met a notebook that can't be upgraded with some tiny screwdrivers and guitar picks.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, my Bay Trail Z3735F-based MeegoPad T02 Ubuntu edition Compute Stick is basically a bust.

Conceptually, I like it. But execution-wise, it's crap.

At first, I couldn't find drivers for Win10 32-bit (64-bit won't install, due to 32-bit UEFI).

I finally found them at x86pad.com, a thread in their forums had a download link.

So, with the video driver finally installed, I had HDMI audio, and video was fairly snappy.

Well, until I actually tried to USE the Compute Stick.

It does OK for "bursty" tasks, like web browsing.

But continuous loads, like a Skype video conversation, cause it to throttle down to 0.24Ghz. Ruining the call.

I'm not 100% sure that's due to thermals, or due to CPU versus GPU power-throttling to stay under TDP, or something else.

Running RealTemp, distance to TJmax is 3 on several cores. So thermal throttling is a real possibility.

 

[ninaholic37]

Well, my Bay Trail Z3735F-based MeegoPad T02 Ubuntu edition Compute Stick is basically a bust.

Conceptually, I like it. But execution-wise, it's crap.

At first, I couldn't find drivers for Win10 32-bit (64-bit won't install, due to 32-bit UEFI).

I finally found them at x86pad.com, a thread in their forums had a download link.

So, with the video driver finally installed, I had HDMI audio, and video was fairly snappy.

Well, until I actually tried to USE the Compute Stick.

It does OK for "bursty" tasks, like web browsing.

But continuous loads, like a Skype video conversation, cause it to throttle down to 0.24Ghz. Ruining the call.

I'm not 100% sure that's due to thermals, or due to CPU versus GPU power-throttling to stay under TDP, or something else.

Running RealTemp, distance to TJmax is 3 on several cores. So thermal throttling is a real possibility.

Sounds like all your problems are because of Microsoft software, which I think is the complete opposite of the point of buying something with Linux. Your stick is telling you that you're a jackass. :awe:

 

[Face2Face]

Well, my Bay Trail Z3735F-based MeegoPad T02 Ubuntu edition Compute Stick is basically a bust.

Conceptually, I like it. But execution-wise, it's crap.

At first, I couldn't find drivers for Win10 32-bit (64-bit won't install, due to 32-bit UEFI).

I finally found them at x86pad.com, a thread in their forums had a download link.

So, with the video driver finally installed, I had HDMI audio, and video was fairly snappy.

Well, until I actually tried to USE the Compute Stick.

It does OK for "bursty" tasks, like web browsing.

But continuous loads, like a Skype video conversation, cause it to throttle down to 0.24Ghz. Ruining the call.

I'm not 100% sure that's due to thermals, or due to CPU versus GPU power-throttling to stay under TDP, or something else.

Running RealTemp, distance to TJmax is 3 on several cores. So thermal throttling is a real possibility.

I have been messing with my Intel Compute Stick demo, and as of right now; I'm largely unimpressed. WiFi is terrible... I mean terrible. I've been monitoring temperatures, and they're not that bad (using gaming as the test) CPU cores stay below 75c and the GPU is in the 67-75c range. Gaming performance is much slower against my Zotac PI320, which has the same SOC. Anyway, I have more testing to do.

 

[Sweepr]

Intel Tango phone hands-on: Android RealSense

Intel's RealSense 3D camera technology always seemed like a natural bedfellow with Google's Project Tango, and sure enough they've met up at IDF 2015. The Android phablet isn't expected to ship for developers until the end of the year, but Intel brought along a handful of prototypes - along with some apps to make use of them - to its annual event, which is where I caught up with the smartphones to see what's new.

The Tango magic, of course, happens on the back. Intel's own fish-eye camera is present, just as it is on the Tango tablet, but rather than NVIDIA's choice of depth sensor, you get a RealSense camera array instead.

As for the other hardware, it's much as you'd expect from a recent Android device. Up front is a 6-inch touchscreen, while inside there's Intel's X5 Cherry Trail processor...

www.slashgear.com/intel-tango-phone-hands-on-android-realsense-18398109

RealSense 3D and Cherry Trail inside a phone. Let's not forget Broxton will cover both phones and tablets next year.

 

[dark zero]

Android and Intel are not compatible. Waiting for Intel Blackberries like phones (with keyboard and trackpad) with Windows 10 NOT mobile.
They could destroy the competition since it could be having a miniPC on a Phone size.

 

[dahorns]

Android and Intel are not compatible. Waiting for Intel Blackberries like phones (with keyboard and trackpad) with Windows 10 NOT mobile.
They could destroy the competition since it could be having a miniPC on a Phone size.

There are plenty of Intel devices running Android. The two are perfectly compatible from that perspective.