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The Intel Atom Thread

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III-V

Senior member
Oct 12, 2014
678
1
41
I am less optimistic than you on intel's prospects in mobile (phones). Dont get me wrong, i would love to see someone put ARM in its place. Problem is, intel was late to the party, and 14nm needed to be on time, and a game changing product. Unfortunately, it was neither. I can see a market for Intel in tablets, and of course laptops and convertibles, because there is a place for x86 in those markets. Phones is quite another story. Even myself, who really hates android in a tablet or larger device, am satisfied with it in a phone. I know intel can run android, but in a phone native ARM/ android just seems like the obvious choice. I once thought intel could leverage their process advantage to make a far superior performance per watt chip that everyone would want to use it. However, the 14nm delays and mediocre improvements have me seriously doubting this.
It's not just about phones, though. Well, it is, but not their SoCs. Their modems are doing really, really well. They're only going to do better next year. Modems are also filed under their mobile group.

As far as SoCs go, Intel's chance to have a slam dunk has long passed. However, they can just settle for being competitive, perhaps at lower margins than they'd like, but at least they'll be putting a band-aid on the billion dollar/quarter losses.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,618
2,726
136
What does Apple charge for iOS8.3 for my iphone and ipad?

What does Google charge for Android XYZ?

The fact that Microsoft's business is broken relative to the 21st century world of commerce (where you charge for app ecosystem access and not for OS access) is Microsoft's problem, not the consumer's and not Intel's.

Intel may be subsidizing BoM for hardware, but at least their business model is 21st century (sell hardware, get revenue), but Microsoft's model is very much unlike their competitors in all the wrong ways.
Seems you didnt understand what i wanted to communicate,

1: Android = Free
2: ARM APUs = Extremely cheap
3: 7" Tablet BOM = Extremely cheap

1+2+3 = 7" ARM Android tablets can be sold at under $50 due to the reasons above.

1: MS Windows for 9" or smaller devices = Free
2: Intel BayTrail-T = Extremely cheap due to Contra-Revenue
3: 7" Tablet BOM = Extremely cheap

1+2+3 = 7" Intel Windows tablets can be sold at under $50 due to the reasons above.

Those are the reasons why we have sub $50 7" Windows Tablets on the market today.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,404
1,004
136
Yeah the sub-$70 tablet sector that is now using Z3735G its probably to be reemplaced by Atom X3 on android platform.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,922
1,541
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man there are $50 arm android tablets with dual A7 out there...
The A7 core is like what 0.9mm2 per core on an old depreciated 40nm process. And bt is more than twice as fast - and 40 times more expensive to make. But hey shows what Intel is up against. 2015 is octo A53 on cheap 28nm. Still 0.7mm2 per core. Still dirt cheap. Android will help Intel tremendously but still. This is red ocean and they will lose tons of money - nothing have changed. And they will do everything to hide it in the results.
They need to dump atom. Cut core and squeeze it and use it instead. This lowend market is not for Intel highcost structure. And its bad for their brand long term.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,404
1,004
136
The A7 core is like what 0.9mm2 per core on an old depreciated 40nm process. And bt is more than twice as fast - and 40 times more expensive to make. But hey shows what Intel is up against. 2015 is octo A53 on cheap 28nm. Still 0.7mm2 per core. Still dirt cheap. Android will help Intel tremendously but still. This is red ocean and they will lose tons of money - nothing have changed. And they will do everything to hide it in the results.
They need to dump atom. Cut core and squeeze it and use it instead. This lowend market is not for Intel highcost structure. And its bad for their brand long term.
You dont need to get profits on every sector, if Intel targets $50 is mostly to get their name on it, their socs performs way too fast for the contenders in that category...

BUT the new crappy Atom X3 may fix that.
 

kpkp

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
468
0
76
Seriously you call that analysis?
Let me just point out the most obvious flaw:
Take note that the 50,401 AnTuTu score was achieved by a ZenFone 2 model that only has 2GB of RAM. The Intel-equipped ZenFone 2 managed to outscore all those high-end Qualcomm-powered Android phones from Samsung, Xiaomi, and HTC. I look forward to an even higher score once a 4GB RAM-equipped ZenFone 2 gets tested.
While he fails to mention that the score was achieved on a 720p display (z3560) as is evident form the screenshot.
The 4GB Z3580 model scores 47434 and demolishes his baseless assumptions.

Not to talk about the title...
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,061
167
106
Seeking Alpha is both a horrible site and a great site for they allow people to work for them by submitting articles on a freelance basis and you get paid due to page views. Thus as long as you click you get paid even if its rubbish past the link.

Yet in theory if its really good analysis you will be retweeted and it will spread across the marketplace.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,139
131
A new Surface is on the horizon, but not with Windows RT



WinBeta has learned that Microsoft is planning to launch a successor to the Surface 2 soon, however it won’t be a Windows RT based device. The device will be fanless and sport a low spec'd CPU, being either an Intel ATOM or Intel Core M based processor (we’re not too sure which one they’ve opted for just yet), meaning it will run a full-version of Windows. This is a first for the non-pro Surface line-up, and further solidifies reports regarding the death of Windows RT.

We expect Microsoft to announce this device sometime before/at BUILD, and will launch soon after, meaning the device will come pre-loaded with Windows 8.1. Of course, the device will be upgradable to Windows 10 when it officially launches, so early buyers need not be worried. We understand that Microsoft will market this new Surface as a non-pro device.
www.winbeta.org/news/exclusive-microsoft-building-successor-surface-2-rt-here-are-first-details

x86 Surface 3 tablet coming soon, most likely based on Cherry Trail.

Notebookcheck's Lenovo Yoga Tablet 2 8 Tablet Review



Of course, one can simply use the Yoga Tablet 2 8 as a digital picture frame, but it would be a shame to employ the tablet in this manner, as it has a lot to offer. Its practical cylindrical grip and integrated kickstand are nice, ergonomical features. The tablet has good workmanship and decent sturdiness. However, if pressure is applied to the case, distortions are visible on the screen. We find it especially annoying that despite such a great design, the tablet has some serious flaws, like high power consumption, and the odd colors of the panel.

In terms of practical use, the Yoga Tablet 2 8 is definitely good, but it is not the slimmest tablet available - the grip requires a lot of room.

Windows 8.1 may or may not be a good choice for a small tablet, especially as an Android tablet can be recognized on a laptop/PC as an external storage device whereas a Windows tablet is simply not recognized. Furthermore, the small icons in desktop mode make the interface awkward. Perhaps the Android version is a better option, especially if you do not absolutely need a Windows 8.1 tablet.
www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Yoga-Tablet-2-8-Tablet-Review.138485.0.html

White-box tablet players turn to Windows 2-in-1s using Intel Bay Trail in 2Q15 (Digitimes)

Shipments for white-box tablets using Intel solutions enjoyed significant growth on quarter in the fourth quarter of 2014 and are expected to see flat performance or drop slightly in the first quarter of 2015 despite the quarter being the traditional slow season. Compared to shipments for MediaTek, Rockchip and Allwinners, which are all seeing dramatic declines from a quarter ago, Intel's application processor (AP) shipments are performing rather well.

Digitimes Research believes Intel stands a chance of becoming the largest AP supplier of the white-box tablet industry in the first half of 2015; however, the momentum will not be contributed by its newly released SoFIA or Core M processors, but instead by its Bay Trail-T CR processors. [...]
www.digitimes.com/news/a20150323VL200.html?chid=8

Intel to partner with notebook players for Chromebook 2-in-1s (Digitimes)

Intel is planning to partner with Google and notebook players including Asustek Computer, Acer, Hewlett-Packard (HP), Lenovo, Quanta Computer and Pegatron Technology to launch 2-in-1 Chromebooks in the second quarter, according to sources from the upstream supply chain.

The sources pointed out that the brand vendors will initially focus on releasing 11- to 13-inch 2-in-1 Chromebooks and will promote them with their low pricing. The vendors will first target the US education market and then expand into emerging markets such as Eastern Europe, Latin America and Southeast Asia.

The devices' prices are expected to be 10% cheaper than same-spec Windows-based 2-in-1s.

Intel plans to release Braswell-based Pentium and Celeron processors in the third quarter and new 14nm Skylake-based processors in the fourth, and vendors are expected to be adopted these new CPUs into their next-generation Chromebooks to push shipments.
www.digitimes.com/news/a20150325PD213.html
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,955
59
91
Awesome - been waiting for an Atom-based Surface.

Core M would be better, Core M is actually amazing when you consider the amount of performance you can get in 5W, but I imagine Atom might help Microsoft keep the pricing similar to the RT series.
 

Thala

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2014
1,271
581
136
Seriously you call that analysis?
Let me just point out the most obvious flaw:
I would consider using AnTuTu as the most obvious flaw. Thats the very same benchmark where Intel cheated it's way to the top thanks to ICC.
Just shows that the AnTuTu author has not the slightest clue of how to write a benchmarkt, which cannot be tricked by the compiler. Also shows how Intel marketing, certainly knowing the issue, was flooding the Internet with AnTuTu benchmarks with each press release.
 
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Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
2,182
434
126
I would consider using AnTuTu as the most obvious flaw. Thats the very same benchmark where Intel cheated it's way to the top thanks to ICC.
Just shows that the AnTuTu author has not the slightest clue of how to write a benchmarkt, which cannot be tricked by the compiler. Also shows how Intel marketing, certainly knowing the issue, was flooding the Internet with AnTuTu benchmarks with each press release.
AnTuTu has now been replaced by Principled technologies *XPRT benchmarks, that have been codeveloped with Intel. Another dubious benchmarks. Also EEMBC AndEBench Pro seems to use dedicated libraries for various Intel chips. If you can't win by designing a great CPU, you start playing with benchmarks...
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
52,246
7,061
126
AnTuTu has now been replaced by Principled technologies *XPRT benchmarks, that have been codeveloped with Intel. Another dubious benchmarks. Also EEMBC AndEBench Pro seems to use dedicated libraries for various Intel chips. If you can't win by designing a great CPU, you start playing with benchmarks...
Par for the course with Intel. Started with iComp and then SysMark. If you can't out-engineer the CPUs, then re-engineer the benchmarks, so you don't have to.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,955
59
91
Bummer to see the artificial segmentation through max supported memory, but these look nice.


Do we have any benchmarks for these yet? Have I just missed them?
 

kimmel

Senior member
Mar 28, 2013
248
0
41
Bummer to see the artificial segmentation through max supported memory, but these look nice.
Number of memory channels supported on lower end boards is a good knob for system cost reduction. The information on the packages of these is pretty much devoid of any real information but they may not pin out the other channel. Certainly in really cost sensitive areas the OEMs buying these wouldn't want to spend the money to connect up the other channel of memory either and are fine with potentially using a fewer layer board.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,139
131
Atom X7-Z8700, 4GB RAM, 1080p/1440p IPS screen, 64GB storage (base model) + MicroSD, reasonable battery capacity, great build quality, full x86 64-bit Windows 8.1 (upgradeable to Windows 10), $399 starting price. Come on Microsoft, you can do it (Surface 4). :)
 
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bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
398
7
81
@sweepr - these are surface 2 specs. we need more than this. plus 399 should be with keyboard
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,955
59
91
Number of memory channels supported on lower end boards is a good knob for system cost reduction. The information on the packages of these is pretty much devoid of any real information but they may not pin out the other channel. Certainly in really cost sensitive areas the OEMs buying these wouldn't want to spend the money to connect up the other channel of memory either and are fine with potentially using a fewer layer board.
True, but that shouldn't have a bearing on the maximum ram period. More than 2gb of ram per channel has been the norm for a long time.
 

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