The Intel Atom Thread

[ninaholic37]

Does anyone else here go to computer/electronic stores and swipe their finger across the Start Screen of laptops/tablets to see how much each one lags as it scrolls horizontally? It's hilarious how choppy many of them seem to me, with more "dropped frames" than successful draws to the screen as it slides. I don't think most of these are even ready to be sold with Windows 8, at least if they kept Windows 7 Starter on it (and no touchscreen) this lag wouldn't be so obvious to any customer that walks by and does this simple experiment.

 

[bullzz]

@monstorcameron - intel is competing with that mediatek soc with sophia

http://www.cnet.com/news/meet-intel...st-smartphone-processor-created-in-singapore/

"SoFIA could pave the way for smartphones costing as little as $50 in Indonesia and other emerging market"

 

[witeken]

If AllWinner where launching a $4 quad A15 -or even A9- them it whould be a problem, a quad A7 is really slow in comparison.

Where is the ROI when you sell chips for $4? That seems unsustainable.

 

[Qwertilot]

Well not an awful lot of I to offset Extreme perhaps but a very logical consequence of ARM's business model.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Where is the ROI when you sell chips for $4? That seems unsustainable.

If you sell 300 million $4 chips at 50% gross margin, that's not a bad business at all. The key, though, is hitting that 300 million in volume...

 

[witeken]

So a quadcore A15 SoC only costs 2 bucks to make?

 

[TrulyUncouth]

So a quadcore A15 SoC only costs 2 bucks to make?

First, I think its not A15's that they are making- typically quad-core A7s. But more importantly, I know I remember reading that some of those companies are selling at a loss now in hopes they can undercut opponents so much they go out of business then they can raise prices once they hit semi-monopoly status. Apparently taking a page from intel's book Just kidding

 

[dave_the_nerd]

First, I think its not A15's that they are making- typically quad-core A7s. But more importantly, I know I remember reading that some of those companies are selling at a loss now in hopes they can undercut opponents so much they go out of business then they can raise prices once they hit semi-monopoly status. Apparently taking a page from intel's book Just kidding

Dunno about that, but I could easily imagine a company like Samsung saying to Dell or Apple, "yeah, we'll sell you ARM CPUs at fab cost, but you have to buy our LCDs, Flash memory, etc."

 

[TrulyUncouth]

Dunno about that, but I could easily imagine a company like Samsung saying to Dell or Apple, "yeah, we'll sell you ARM CPUs at fab cost, but you have to buy our LCDs, Flash memory, etc."

I think its more along the lines of chinese solar panel suppliers selling at a loss so the US competition went under then they could set their own prices. I remember a WSJ article about it being pretty much proven, but I can't speak to the truth of it... only trying to give a more similar scenario.

 

[Sweepr]

Desktop Braswell is dual or quad 14nm

We didn’t manage to get many details about the notebook and tablet version of Intel's upcoming out-of-order core codenamed Braswell, but we have managed to get a few specifications of the desktop version.

The desktop Braswell comes with Intel Pentium or Celeron branding, in quad-core and dual-core versions. It appears that Intel will no longer use Atom branding for out-of-order desktop parts. Its maximum TDP is 10W which is acceptable for entry level desktop systems, small form factor and All-in-one computers.

The chipset supports dual channel DDR3L 1600 MHz memory and high speed SATA 3.0. It comes with four integrated USB 3.0 ports and a single USB 2.0 port. It has 4-lane PCI Express 2.09 at 5 GT/s. The graphics part has 16 executive units (EUs) and DirectX 11 support, as well as support for three independent displays with resolutions of up to 2560x1600.

Let's not forget the integrated 10/100 and 1000 Mbit LAN card as well as integrated audio SMI, LPC and SM Bus support. The Braswell SoC (System-on-Chip) will ship in BGA 25x27mm package.

www.fudzilla.com/home/item/35424-desktop-braswell-is-dual-or-quad-14nm

Some info about Braswell @ Fudzilla. That's one of the few rumours talking specifically about Braswell. Seems like it will be powered by the same 16 EUs Gen 8 iGPU as some Cherry Trail-T parts, possibly running at higher clocks than the tablet cousin. We're talking about a large jump in performance compared to Bay Trail D's 4 EUs Gen 7 iGPU. Considering Pentium/Celeron Haswell GT1's 10 EUs Gen 7.5 iGPU often matches/beats AM1 Kabini's (25W TDP) gaming performance I'm pretty sure Intel will have an all around very competitive cheap/low power (10W TDP) chip.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Desktop Braswell is dual or quad 14nm



www.fudzilla.com/home/item/35424-desktop-braswell-is-dual-or-quad-14nm

Some info about Braswell @ Fudzilla. That's one of the few rumours talking specifically about Braswell. Seems like it will be powered by the same 16 EUs Gen 8 iGPU as some Cherry Trail-T parts, possibly running at higher clocks than the tablet cousin. We're talking about a large jump in performance compared to Bay Trail D's 4 EUs Gen 7 iGPU. Considering Pentium/Celeron Haswell GT1's 10 EUs Gen 7.5 iGPU often matches/beats AM1 Kabini's (25W TDP) gaming performance I'm pretty sure Intel will have an all around very competitive cheap/low power (10W TDP) chip.

Seriously? Its not bad enough that they shoehorn Atom into desktops, now they are putting in dual core Atoms? And dont think I am biased. I hate AMD for pushing cat cores into desktops as well. Maybe if they (both intel and AMD) made the nomenclature clearer it wouldnt be so bad, but now it is impossible to know what you are getting without really doing some research. If I wanted a tablet chip, I would buy a tablet or craptop.

 

[mikk]

now they are putting in dual core Atoms?

In case you missed it, there are Dualcore Atom based models currently in the market.

The big news is that Braswell seems to ship with 16 EUs and not 8. The iGPU should be finally sufficient for its target market. For gaming the CPU is possibly a bigger bottleneck with Braswell.

 

[Shivansps]

Actually the mayor bottleneck with dgpu was the PCI-E on BT, after that the cpu, remember that even a 5350 kills most dgpus.

 

[Shivansps]

good enough for who is the question.

give me a $99 Z3735G Windows tablet right now... and you can be assured that a lot of people will want it, the Android tablet market is oversaturated.

 

[bullzz]

@Shivansps - "you can be assured that a lot of people will want it"
only problem is not many people know Z3735G. some might know what bay trail is and there are available tablets in walmart for $130

 

[dealcorn]

Seriously? Its not bad enough that they shoehorn Atom into desktops, now they are putting in dual core Atoms?

Last quarter's earning releases from Intel and AMD confirm that dual and quad core Atoms are selling in large volumes for both desktops and in laptops. Atom took significant low end market share from AMD last quarter. In contrast to prior generation Atoms, I see trivial evidence of Bay Trail consumer post purchase remorse. In contrast, multiple site extol Atom as a viable mainstream gaming platform. I write this using an J1800 Atom dual core Celeron. Using Linux (Debian Jesse) with a SSD, I experience a delightful media consumption device considering the price. Consumer acceptance of small form factor desktops enabled by superior Atom efficiency also appears strong.

If Braswell graphics is as strong as it appears and the CPU is enhanced, there is a reasonable argument that Braswell may capture the bottom half of the desktop and laptop market on a unit share basis. Other than some known, high end applications, I struggle to understand credible, mainstream use cases where Braswell is excluded based on performance.

At 14nm, Intel represents that it's cost per transistor drops significantly. Competing foundries report their current generation cost per transistor increases for the good stuff. I am unable to visualize a scenario where the ARM'y overcome this detriment to capture significant low end desktop and laptop market share. Some may cry and kick their heels, but it is clear that Bay Trail signals the start of the Atom ascension

 

[Shivansps]

Where is the ROI when you sell chips for $4? That seems unsustainable.

It seems to work, thats what AllWinner has been doing for years now, the A10, the first tablet cpu of AllWinner was $5.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Last quarter's earning releases from Intel and AMD confirm that dual and quad core Atoms are selling in large volumes for both desktops and in laptops. Atom took significant low end market share from AMD last quarter. In contrast to prior generation Atoms, I see trivial evidence of Bay Trail consumer post purchase remorse. In contrast, multiple site extol Atom as a viable mainstream gaming platform. I write this using an J1800 Atom dual core Celeron. Using Linux (Debian Jesse) with a SSD, I experience a delightful media consumption device considering the price. Consumer acceptance of small form factor desktops enabled by superior Atom efficiency also appears strong.

If Braswell graphics is as strong as it appears and the CPU is enhanced, there is a reasonable argument that Braswell may capture the bottom half of the desktop and laptop market on a unit share basis. Other than some known, high end applications, I struggle to understand credible, mainstream use cases where Braswell is excluded based on performance.

At 14nm, Intel represents that it's cost per transistor drops significantly. Competing foundries report their current generation cost per transistor increases for the good stuff. I am unable to visualize a scenario where the ARM'y overcome this detriment to capture significant low end desktop and laptop market share. Some may cry and kick their heels, but it is clear that Bay Trail signals the start of the Atom ascension

I think Intel is slowly beginning to accept that Atom is its future in the consumer market, while Core will be more for business/high end consumer niches/servers.

Atom is integral to smartphones, tablets, low-cost PCs, micro-servers, low cost storage/networking applications, IoT, and much more.

I personally can't wait to see what Airmont and Goldmont bring.

 

[teejee]

Where is the ROI when you sell chips for $4? That seems unsustainable.

Return of what investment? This SOC is based on mature and standard ARM IP.
Only a very small team is needed for integration and testing, and this team have Chinese salaries.
And production is entirely handled by TMSC.

If we assume the chip is 25mm2, then production cost is less than 2$, and ARM licenses is probably 1$ or less for a budget SOC like this. So it is still one dollar for Allwinner.
And this is a tablet and smartphone SOC, so 50 million per year is not an unlikely volume. So a valid business case is not impossible.

 

[Roland00Address]

It seems to work, thats what AllWinner has been doing for years now, the A10, the first tablet cpu of AllWinner was $5.

It helps when Allwinner is a china based firm and there is less need of a ROI since China is heavily subsidizing the non-public company. They are purposefully releasing something at below cost trying to grab greater market share, and hopefully the greater market share means less need of a subsidy later on. In football this is called a long pass you can do things like long pass when someone else (not you) is subsidizing the day to day operations.

MediaTek on the other hand is a taiwan based firm and it is a public company. You should be looking at their SoC prices, and the price / performance ratio more than Allwinner since they actually have to make money.

Return of what investment? This SOC is based on mature and standard ARM IP.
Only a very small team is needed for integration and testing, and this team have Chinese salaries.
And production is entirely handled by TMSC.

If we assume the chip is 25mm2, then production cost is less than 2$, and ARM licenses is probably 1$ or less for a budget SOC like this. So it is still one dollar for Allwinner.
And this is a tablet and smartphone SOC, so 50 million per year is not an unlikely volume. So a valid business case is not impossible.

It makes sense if we are doing only original ARM based cores, but this type of race to the bottom return on investment will drive away other IP such as custom arm based cores, intel, mips etc.

 

[Sweepr]

After the Half Life 2/Portal Bay Trail-T vs Tegra 4 comparisons I was surprised by how well Bay Trail-T based ASUS T100 stood up against the recently announced iOS version of Bioshock running on iPad Air/iPad mini Retina.
Playing these games on its native platform must have some advantages because both Tegra 4 and especially Apple A7 outperform Bay Trail-T in pure graphics benchmarks. What do you guys think?

Bioshock @ Atom Z3740 - Bay Trail-T (Windows 8.1)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGe8RHMWYZE

Bioshock @ A7 (iOS 7.x)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uKuqGv5sSU

Asus Transformer Book T100TAM Review

A tablet is mostly used for browsing, games and multimedia. But what if you want more? What if you need a small computer that can run the software you’re already familiar with from your main PC, a slate that can handle not just the fun, but some work as well.

In this case, Asus’s Transformer Book T100 line could be what you’re looking for and in this review we’re talking about the youngest member of the family, the Asus Transformer Book T100TAM, a subtle step-up from the popular Transformer Book T100TA.

This is still a 10.1 inch tablet bundled with a matching docking station that includes a keyboard, trackpad, ports and increased storage space. Together the two still make for a neat mini-laptop, or you can use the slate by its own if you want to. On top of these, the T100TAM still sells for $399 and up. However, there are a few things that changed, like the case, the screen and hardware, and you’ll find all about these from the article below.

www.tlbhd.com/asus-transformer-book-t100tam-review-18729

Gigabyte launches the Q21, a lightweight 11.6-inch laptop

Gigabyte has just announced its new Q21 laptop. The Taiwanese PC, components and accessories maker claims the Q21 is a lightweight and affordable 11.6-inch device for those with high mobility needs but less demanding requirements. Is anyone looking for a new netbook / Bingbook?

This diminutive notebook is powered by a 4th generation Intel Celeron Processor from the Bay Trail family. A Gigabyte Q21 buyer has two CPU variants to choose from; the quad core Intel Celeron N2930 processor clocked at 1.83-2.17GHz, or the dual core Intel Celeron N2807 processor clocked at 1.58-2.17GHz. Its single memory slot can be fitted with up to 8GB of RAM.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/laptop/72869-gigabyte-launches-q21-lightweight-116-inch-laptop

Intel Linux Graphics Installer updated, added support for Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, better Baytrail performance

Although Intel graphics have always been the least troublesome for Linux users, things are a lot better now when it comes to the driver support for high-end graphics cards from Nvidia and others. But Intel's native graphics installer for Linux is truly one of a kind.

Intel Graphics Installer for Linux now support Ubuntu 14.04
A brand new version of Intel Graphics Installer with added support for Ubuntu 14.04 LTS has now been released. Highlights of the new 1.0.6 version include broadwell support, baytrail improvements and many improvements and optimizations on power saving features.

www.techdrivein.com/2014/08/intel-linux-graphics-installer-update-ubuntu1404-supported.html

Asus C200MA-KX003 Chromebook Review (Celeron N2830)

www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-C200MA-KX003-Chromebook-Review.121927.0.html

 

[monstercameron]

its funny I can't get bioshock to run

 

[witeken]

I've gone over the facts we have about Silvermont and Cyclone, and I have calculated the performance per watt (benchmark: Geekbench 3):


- A7 consumes 3W (not the whole platform, but the power delta between idle and load). If we take the same scaling as Silvermont, 1 core probably consumes 2.1W, but let's say it's 2W.
- Silvermont consumes 0.85W with 1 core and 2.4W with 4.

- Silvermont is 40% faster multithreaded => 75% higher efficiency for Silvermont
- Airmont is 33% faster single threaded => 77% higher efficiency for Silvermont

These facts and conclusions above are about as scientific as it can get, although I'd really like to have the kind of power measurements as done by Intel with the Z3770 for the A7. But we'll have to do it with that, although the multithreaded numbers should be fairly accurate. Another point that should be noted is the software. Since Apple very closely controls and design the software for the hardware, they might favor Apple.

 

[liahos1]

wow bioshock on iOs looked terrible vs the baytrail clip you showed.. are they trying to have that game run on an ipad 1?

 

[monstercameron]

wow bioshock on iOs looked terrible vs the baytrail clip you showed.. are they trying to have that game run on an ipad 1?

only ipad 4 and ipone 5