The Inq Calls the 7900 a 7800GTX 512 Repeate

[5150Joker]

Robert, it should be clear by now that Ronin is full of it. He can never back up what he says and 90% of the time he talks out of his butt and gets caught lying. My XPS 2 is 1.5 yrs old now and I game on it regularly using my 6800 Go Ultra which hits 90C+ consistently. So far not a single artifact or vid card component faliure and on notebookforums.com you'll find that most people there have had no issues with the high temps either. Ronin, since when are you an electrical engineer qualified to make statements on what electronic components can or cannot handle? Last I checked you were just a QA test grunt for Sony and someone that couldn't cut it in law school.

 

[Ackmed]

Comparing the X1900's to the 5800U is just silly.

It is sad that the 7900's are already out of stock in most places. Hopefully they will come back into supply, and prices will drop. But since I just ordered my 2nd X1900XT... doesnt really matter to me. Crossfire, here I come.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Robert, it should be clear by now that Ronin is full of it. He can never back up what he says and 90% of the time he talks out of his butt and gets caught lying. My XPS 2 is 1.5 yrs old now and I game on it regularly using my 6800 Go Ultra which hits 90C+ consistently. So far not a single artifact or vid card component faliure and on notebookforums.com you'll find that most people there have had no issues with the high temps either. Ronin, since when are you an electrical engineer qualified to make statements on what electronic components can or cannot handle? Last I checked you were just a QA test grunt for Sony and someone that couldn't cut it in law school.

Can both of you guys just give it a nap?

 

[Snakexor]

wow, pwned

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Comparing the X1900's to the 5800U is just silly.

It is sad that the 7900's are already out of stock in most places. Hopefully they will come back into supply, and prices will drop. But since I just ordered my 2nd X1900XT... doesnt really matter to me. Crossfire, here I come.

I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear of your Crossfire expereinces, that's a pretty rare rig.

 

[BFG10K]

Can you name me one game worth playing that came out within six months of the FX5800 that had shader performance issues?

Call of Duty

While the 5800U isn't on the charts you can see how badly the 9800XT torches the 5950U, a card that is vastly more powerful than the 5800U. Also this is an OpenGL title which is generally nVidia's performance turf.

The 5800 took a ~35% hit when running 8x application

A 35% hit compared to 1x application. Of course what you're conveniently missing is the fact that 1x aggressive has a higher starting point.

The performance hit from 1x aggressive (102.5) to 8x application (55.3) is about 46% which is back to NV25 levels.

while the R9700Pro took about a 43% hit when running quality mode

You can't make such a comparison when not only is it not the same demo, it's not even the same game or the same API. The B3D demo was Citadel from SS:TSE (OpenGL) while Anand's benchmark was from UT2003 (Direct3D).

Two totally different games, two totally different APIs and two totally different demos. Also Anand's tests don't include application AF mode so your comparison is even more meaningless.

Additionally this was during the days when nVidia had known filtering cheats in UT2003 (or "bugs" if you prefer).

It was about 18% slower then straight 4x- compared to ATi's 6x which was about 15% slower then 4x(ATi numbers, nVidia).

Again you are looking at two totally different demos across the vendors, not to mention two different renderers from the game running under two different APIs. You can't make a sweeping generalization from such an apples vs oranges comparison.

That's true, but nVidia is also capable of handling HDR+AA depending on the application so I figured that was a comparable point.

It's not comparable given the fact that 6xAA operated on just about any game in existance. Furthermore nVidia's ordered grid modes were generally hopeless for edge AA even when SSAA was used, unlike ATi's sparse rotated grid patterns.

As for performance, on something like a 7800GT when using 8xS you can expect to drop to between 1/2 to 1/3 of your original performance compared to 4xAA in GPU limited situations, thus there exists a massive rift between 4xAA and 8xS, a rift that 6xAA fills nicely and makes it viable in the vast majority of games where 4xAA is viable.

The SSAA modes can be nice but even today 8xAA/16xAA are just not viable unless you stick to very old games, very low resolutions or you go with high-end SLI. Of course with SLI nVidia's advantage disappears due to Crossfire offering SSAA modes as well.

I thought we were talking about IQ here?

Sure but performance is also a factor too. It's not like the X1900 is unplayably slow when running shaders, 6xAA and/or quality AF. That's the whole point and why you can't make a comparison to the 5800U except perhaps with regard to the cooling solution.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Last I checked you were just a QA test grunt for Sony and someone that couldn't cut it in law school.

Sucks that you checked wrong, bud. Keep attacking me. I'll take all the ammo I can get.

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Last I checked you were just a QA test grunt for Sony and someone that couldn't cut it in law school.

Sucks that you checked wrong, bud. Keep attacking me. I'll take all the ammo I can get.

Getting ready for an e-war or snitching???

 

[Ronin]

Robert, the word is spelled forget, not foret. If you're going to make an idiot of yourself, there's no better way than to misspell something in your sig for everyone to see, every time they see one of your posts.

 

[BenSkywalker]

While the 5800U isn't on the charts you can see how badly the 9800XT torches the 5950U

Compare 128MB cards.

A 35% hit compared to 1x application. Of course what you're conveniently missing is the fact that 1x aggressive has a higher starting point.

You didn't read the link did you?

Under 'Application', the highest quality setting, there's a fair performance spread, with the worst case performance of 33% lower than no Anisotropic filtering.

Again you are looking at two totally different demos across the vendors, not to mention two different renderers from the game running under two different APIs. You can't make a sweeping generalization from such an apples vs oranges comparison.

Looked for straight across numbers and couldn't find any. None of the numbers I saw came anywhere near showing NV2x levels of performance- not remotely close.

It's not comparable given the fact that 6xAA operated on just about any game in existance. Furthermore nVidia's ordered grid modes were generally hopeless for edge AA even when SSAA was used, unlike ATi's sparse rotated grid patterns.

HDR+AA works on almost no games for ATi- a major title launch today with HDR and ATi boards can't run it with AA.

As for performance, on something like a 7800GT when using 8xS you can expect to drop to between 1/2 to 1/3 of your original performance compared to 4xAA in GPU limited situations, thus there exists a massive rift between 4xAA and 8xS, a rift that 6xAA fills nicely and makes it viable in the vast majority of games where 4xAA is viable.

4xS isn't OGSS.

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Robert, the word is spelled forget, not foret. If you're going to make an idiot of yourself, there's no better way than to misspell something in your sig for everyone to see, every time they see one of your posts.

Shows how much I care about the forums, eh!? e-respect isn't that important to everyone

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Robert, the word is spelled forget, not foret. If you're going to make an idiot of yourself, there's no better way than to misspell something in your sig for everyone to see, every time they see one of your posts.

What about putting "80GB Raptor"? There is no 80gig Raptor, its a 74gig.

 

[Matt2]

I thought some OEM Raptors were 80GB?

 

[BFG10K]

Compare 128MB cards.

Done (see the bottom graph).

A 9700 Pro (57.7 FPS) torches even a 5950 (48.7 FPS) when AA and AF is cranked, much less beating a regular 5800U (45.2 FPS) to a pulp.

I might also point out that the 5950 has vastly superior clocks and memory bandwidth (30.4 GB/sec) to a 9700 Pro (19.8 GB/sec), has 256 MB VRAM, and is also the third version of the NV3x architecture to compete with the first generation R3xx 9700 Pro.

You didn't read the link did you?

If AF is truly disabled then there can't possibly be any performance gap between 1x application and 1x aggressive. Either that or aggressive is affecting regular bilinear/trilinear as well as AF which makes it even worse than I initially suspected.

Looked for straight across numbers and couldn't find any. None of the numbers I saw came anywhere near showing NV2x levels of performance- not remotely close.

Look at the middle graph in the link above (8xAF) and this one (0xAF). And yes, the two charts are from the same review.

Both the 5800U (119 FPS vs 55.8 FPS) and the Ti4600 (101.5 FPS vs 47.2 FPS) lose more than half of their performance when enabling 8xAF and the 5800U is simply faster by virtue of higher core and memory clocks. Basically if you're running application AF on the NV3x you're looking at the same sort of performance hit as the NV25, you just have higher clocks to play with.

Now before you jump up and down about the 9700 Pro having 256 bit memory, keep in mind that it has far less bandwidth and a far slower clock than a 5950 and it still torches it when 8xAF is enabled.

Furthermore the performance difference between a 5950 and 5800U when 8xAF is enabled is miniscule indicating memory bandwidth isn't really a factor but rather the bottleneck is elsewhere, such as shader performance.

This is backed by the fact the core clocks of the two cards are virtually identical and shader performance is typically dependent on this.

HDR+AA works on almost no games for ATi- a major title launch today with HDR and ATi boards can't run it with AA.

Let me make it clear that you brought up HDR and you're the only one discussing it. I was discussing 6xAA.

Comparing 6xAA (which works in just about any game) to NV30 xS modes (which work only in Direct3D titles) is quite ridiculous.

4xS isn't OGSS.

True but it was still inferior for edges than 6xAA and usually slower too.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Ronin
Robert, the word is spelled forget, not foret. If you're going to make an idiot of yourself, there's no better way than to misspell something in your sig for everyone to see, every time they see one of your posts.

What about putting "80GB Raptor"? There is no 80gig Raptor, its a 74gig.

http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/80raptor.jpg

Damn, now don't you feel stupid?

And just to add insult to injury:
1
2
3

Oh, and if you want to see a pair striped:

http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/80raptorraid.jpg

Can I offer up anything else to make your response seem any more stupid?

 

[ribbon13]

Wow. All I have to say is wow.

*Slowly steps out of the thread and the video section.*

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Wow. All I have to say is wow.

*Slowly steps out of the thread and the video section.*

Yeah, amazing how the mods allow this kind of stuff happen on a daily basis. Sad.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Here comes Ronin whipping his e-pee again....Hilarious!

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Here comes Ronin whipping his e-pee again....Hilarious!

Nah.

It's not bragging to correct someone who has made a mistake about your hardware. I was pretty surprised to see Ackmed post that as a. I'm sure Ronin can figure out the capacity of his hard drive b. I googled it and hit several references to them.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Ronin
Robert, the word is spelled forget, not foret. If you're going to make an idiot of yourself, there's no better way than to misspell something in your sig for everyone to see, every time they see one of your posts.

What about putting "80GB Raptor"? There is no 80gig Raptor, its a 74gig.

http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/80raptor.jpg

Damn, now don't you feel stupid?

And just to add insult to injury:
1
2
3

Oh, and if you want to see a pair striped:

http://server.counter-strike.net/images/misc/80raptorraid.jpg

Can I offer up anything else to make your response seem any more stupid?

I am wrong. I did not know there was a 80gig OEM drive. Still small compared to my 150gig Raptor....

In any case, someone having a typo in their sig, is pretty petty to be harping on with Robert. So is name calling. Lowering yourself to name calling is pretty sad. If you're going to try and take the high road, you need to stay on it all the time. Which means dont name call, that makes you a hypocrite.

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Here comes Ronin whipping his e-pee again....Hilarious!

I was pretty surprised to see Ackmed post that as a. I'm sure Ronin can figure out the capacity of his hard drive b. I googled it and hit several references to them.

You wouldnt be suprised, if you didnt "know" me. You're a re-reg, and are now ignored. Please dont bother replying to me anymore.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Compare 128MB cards.

Done (see the bottom graph).

A 9700 Pro (57.7 FPS) torches even a 5950 (48.7 FPS) when AA and AF is cranked, much less beating a regular 5800U (45.2 FPS) to a pulp.

Oddly though * perhaps not for Toms * when you revisit the test in october '04 there is little to choose between a 9800XT and 5800U with 4x/8x Text Did ATI have game specific opts in early Cats that caused the performance difference, or do you suppose it is more bad testing methodolgy from Toms?

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You wouldnt be suprised, if you didnt "know" me. You're a re-reg, and are now ignored. Please dont bother replying to me anymore.

Huh?!

LOL

How is "knowing" you a condition of being surprised you'd question that a guy knows the capacity of his own hard drive??? Not like it's hard information to come by?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Done (see the bottom graph).

A 9700 Pro (57.7 FPS) torches even a 5950 (48.7 FPS) when AA and AF is cranked, much less beating a regular 5800U (45.2 FPS) to a pulp.

We were talking about shader performance- if we look at the non AA+AF numbers the performance gap between a R9700Pro and a 5800U is a mind blowing 3.5FPS. To quote myself-

Can you name me one game worth playing that came out within six months of the FX5800 that had shader performance issues?

And you answered CoD.

Either that or aggressive is affecting regular bilinear/trilinear as well as AF which makes it even worse than I initially suspected.

It did, it was almost, not quite but close, to as bad as ATi's performance filtering when looking at agressive. It didn't suffer from nearly the amount of aliasing, but it certainly was very ugly.

Look at the middle graph in the link above (8xAF) and this one (0xAF). And yes, the two charts are from the same review.

You do realize that you are comparing charts from two completely different systems right? One is a P4 3.2GHZ and the other an AXP 2700- it says so right on the charts

The R9700Pro moved from 121.2 to 70.9, a 41% hit.

Ti4600 taking a 65% performance hit. The 5800U was much better then that. Now if you are saying that an extra 10% doesn't make a difference then why did you post the numbers you did showing the R9700Pro taking as big of a hit?

Let me make it clear that you brought up HDR and you're the only one discussing it. I was discussing 6xAA.

You jumped in to an ongoing conversation- that is why HDR has been being discussed- I didn't bring it up first.

True but it was still inferior for edges than 6xAA and usually slower too.

Agreed- but it was an awful lot better in games where alpha textures were used.

This conversation started out with Joker's continuing to harp on ATi's slightly improved AF for this generation and how it is a huge improvement over what nVidia has. I was trying to point out to him that if that was as big of an issue as he is making it out to be then he would have had to have given the nod to the NV30 over the R300 as there was a much larger quality difference there. I am not arguing which is better by any means, you know I spent my money on a R300 for that round, but if he is going to be honest the he needs to come out and claim that the NV30 was the superior part for the same reason he is claiming the x1900xt is superior to the 7900GTX. I find it highly amusing that he never made any comments or had any part of our very lengthy arguments about AF previously but now that ATi has taken an edge over nV it is suddenly a major issue.

You and I have gone back and forth on this one so many times we are both well versed on our respective positions- if you all of a sudden started going off about how people should buy the 1900xt because of the edge it had in AF I would certainly go off on you too(as I would expect you to hammer on me if I claimed you should buy a part because of fan noise ). Mind you- I think that is a perfectly valid reason to make that choice, without a doubt, but for those that have been here a while we know what their interests are and what factors are most important to them. Your focus is heat/noise and drivers with AA being a secondary, mine is AF/filtering drivers(compatability) with AA being secondary- the other guy involved is only concerned with which team it is and you and I both know that

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You wouldnt be suprised, if you didnt "know" me. You're a re-reg, and are now ignored. Please dont bother replying to me anymore.

Huh?!

LOL

How is "knowing" you a condition of being surprised you'd question that a guy knows the capacity of his own hard drive??? Not like it's hard information to come by?

Rollo, go crawl back under your banned AEG rock.

 

[letdown427]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
I am wrong. I did not know there was a 80gig OEM drive. Still small compared to my 150gig Raptor....

Quick Ronin, he's saying his e-penis is bigger than yours!!

fight, fight, fight, fight


Sure you pwned him good and proper, but alas, he has 70GB more than you on one of his hard drives. You need to take him down, he defaces your e-penis with his tomfoolery.