The infamous "7 minutes"

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Rogue
I'm just sick and tired of all you second-guessing, armchair quarterback, asswipes who can only sit back and critique his every move. I'll bet every single one of you who has something negative to say on his decision on this matter has never once in your life had to deal with a critical decision besides deciding what to do after you realize you've just taken a big dump and have no toilet paper. You're all a joke. I've said my piece. Flame if you want, I don't give a damn.

Interesting... of course, many have said the same thing about Clinton, about Bush Sr., about Reagan, Carter, Ford, etc. Meh.

 

[glugglug]

Maybe the reason he didn't get shocked by the news and get up out of the classroom is because it was expected. The secret service just confirmed for him that everything was going according to plan.

 

[Ozoned]

'Since the 1950s there has been a strict protocol on what the president and his staff is supposed to do if the country comes under attack."

Security overides everything, until we know what exactly White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card whispered into the presidents ear, then it is simply pointless to ponder the implications of the seven minute period of time.

This AFDB is for Michael Moore

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
Interesting how you call me a bigot after attacking me personally.
mindless hatred?
I have yet to personally attack someone over their beliefs on AT, freedom of speech is good.
Take your pissing matches to OT if this is your thing or stick to the subject.
Why is this not the typical mindless spin for dittoheads looking for a way distract the masses from the spiderwebs of corruption
we deal with day-to-day?

holy troll, stay in P&N please where i hardly visit so i dont get any dumber from reading your posts.

-Right Wing Bigot

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: steeplerot
Problem is most of his moves NEED to be critiqued if not stopped outright.
I do not know if I was in his situation what would have happened but I do know how I and my roomates at the time reacted.
And we sure as hell werent sitting there.
If it had not been a mideast issue that we provoked in the first place I would have joined up that dark week.
But then that is a non-issue.

Yeah clinton reacted swiftly in Rawanda, and he was definately working tword stopping terrorism in the US. (extreme sarcasm)

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Yeah clinton reacted swiftly in Rawanda, and he was definately working tword stopping terrorism in the US. (extreme sarcasm)

Okay, I fail to see the relevance of either point, but let's run with this . . .

Did the Hutus or the Tutsis ever attack the US?

Is the world, specifically the US, safer from terrorism than it was when President Bush was elected? Before you answer, keep in mind that 2003 provided the highest number of terrorists acts of any year in history.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Yeah clinton reacted swiftly in Rawanda, and he was definately working tword stopping terrorism in the US. (extreme sarcasm)

Okay, I fail to see the relevance of either point, but let's run with this . . .

Did the Hutus or the Tutsis ever attack the US?

Is the world, specifically the US, safer from terrorism than it was when President Bush was elected? Before you answer, keep in mind that 2003 provided the highest number of terrorists acts of any year in history.

1. clinton let 500,000 - 1,000,000 people die in rawanda, lives that could have EASILY been saved.

2. clinton allowed Iraq to be in violation of the UN and never acted upon it.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Aelius
I hope you guys realize that Bush was told what happend between 8:46 and 8:55 right?

This was way before he ever reached the school, let alone was sitting in the classroom.

He was then told again between 8:55 and 9:00.

From what I read he missunderstood or was missinformed and thought that only one plane has crashed at this point and still thought it was an accident.

I find this not impossible to belieave, considering the person we are talking about, but he claimed again and again that he saw the first hit live.

Which is impossible to accomplish through news channels since none of them had that footage until the following day and he couldn't have meant that he saw the second plane hit since he was told of that event later in the classroom after it happend.

There are only three other options.

1. He is outright lying. I cannot come up with a reasonable cause for this and even though I think he is an idiot it makes no sense for him to claim this by lying. He seemed to ask several educated questions from those whom told him what happend (bad weather? accident?) that is not unsual for someone with flight experience to ask. This suggets he had no prior knowledge of the event that some sources claim. That's assuming he wasn't acting but lets leave the unknown out of this.

2. He saw it because there was some sort of security camera of some sorts that part of his escort/staff was watching as the event happend and he happend to see it. This is highly unlikely since security cameras do not point straight at other buildings, never have before or since. Especially not "up" at a building. This pretty much rules this option out. Even if this was somehow true why were they watching it in the first place? It would have to have been planned. It makes no sense.

3. They had purposefully setup a camera to watch the event unfold and Bush saw it as he was passing by.

Also don't forget the plane hit before Bush ever even reached the school.

Unless someone else has a possible explaination you are welcome to fire away. I cannot think of others.

When you eliminate all other possibilities the one you are left with, however improbable, must be the truth.

"(9:01 a.m.)

Bush later makes the following statement: ?And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower?the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, ?There's one terrible pilot.? And I said, ?It must have been a horrible accident.? But I was whisked off there?I didn't have much time to think about it.? [CNN, 12/4/01] He has repeated the story on other occasions. [White House, 1/5/02, CBS, 9/11/02] However, it has been noted that Bush doesn't have access to a television until 15 or so minutes later. [Washington Times, 10/7/02] A Boston Herald article later says, ?Think about that. Bush's remark implies he saw the first plane hit the tower. But we all know that video of the first plane hitting did not surface until the next day. Could Bush have meant he saw the second plane hit?which many Americans witnessed? No, because he said that he was in the classroom when Card whispered in his ear that a second plane hit.? The article points out that Bush had told the story more than once, and asks, ? How could the commander-in-chief have seen the plane fly into the first building?as it happened?? [Boston Herald, 10/22/02] "

source

This research site does not contain everything but contains a lot of information. Some of the more unnerving peices of information is outright missing and not mentioned. Not sure why. Possibly because there is no collaborative evidence.

WOW, Aelius, just . . . WOW.

I personally reject the rabid conspiracy "Bush planned this" scenario, which leaves us with, because he thought no one had this video of him sitting there like a chimp denied a banana, that:


GEORGE BUSH OUTRIGHT FVCKING LIED!

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

1. clinton let 500,000 - 1,000,000 people die in rawanda, lives that could have EASILY been saved.

2. clinton allowed Iraq to be in violation of the UN and never acted upon it.

You haven't answered either of my questions. BTW, it's Rwanda.

Interestingly, vis a vis your first point, the elder Bush declined to act to end the ethnic cleansing and rape camps in the former Yugoslavia, which Clinton worked to end (through Operation Allied Force).

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Acanthus

1. clinton let 500,000 - 1,000,000 people die in rawanda, lives that could have EASILY been saved.

2. clinton allowed Iraq to be in violation of the UN and never acted upon it.

You haven't answered either of my questions. BTW, it's Rwanda.

Interestingly, vis a vis your first point, the elder Bush declined to act to end the ethnic cleansing and rape camps in the former Yugoslavia, which Clinton worked to end (through Operation Allied Force).

Im just saying the left is about as innocent as the right.

All this bickering is retarded, you arent going to sway anyones opinion in here, just state your opinion and STFU.

 

[Acanthus]

And of course we arent safer now, we are at war...

Will we be safer in 20 years? you can only speculate.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Im just saying the left is about as innocent as the right.

All this bickering is retarded, you arent going to sway anyones opinion in here, just state your opinion and STFU.

You're the one who took this off-topic. You can scroll up and see a number of posts I have made that actually related to the OP's subject. Interestingly, in terms of your latter point, you didn't state an opinion, you just tried to drag President Clinton into the discussion for no apparent reason.

I don't really see this as a matter of "innocence" anyway. I'm not saying President Bush is guilty of anything - I would just rather see the situation handled a little differently if it ever happens again (which I hope it doesn't).

 

[Gaard]

I posted this link in the other thread. I'll post it here also, just in case anyone wants to read it.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html">An Interesting Day:
President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11</a>

 

[LunarRay]

Looking Glass gets scrambled but, control was still in the Situation Room deep in the White House. Bush didn't need getting on AF1 but, did need accurate information. He was in the most secure place at the time, I think. AF1, his vehicle and egress routes had to be secured and survailed. He couldn't move! His staff had all the required com equipment and the brains to get The President the info. It sorta takes a few minutes to get all of this sorted out. NSA would have to spend time to sort out its intercepts... etc..
Ain't anyone ever read Tom Clancy..

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I posted this link in the other thread. I'll post it here also, just in case anyone wants to read it.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html">An Interesting Day:
President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11</a>

I read about 1/3 of the way through it. When you want to post an unbiased analysis I'll read it.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I posted this link in the other thread. I'll post it here also, just in case anyone wants to read it.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html">An Interesting Day:
President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11</a>

The time line bit would be a good one if the assumptions were left out. It paints a picture that the author wants to project....

What amazes me Gaard, is not the things you fixate on, but rather the manner in which you fixate upon them...

:frown:

 

[Gaard]

elaborate

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Gaard
elaborate

Ozoned I assume? I wouldn't think you would dispute this is biased...

 

[Gaard]

referring to this...
What amazes me Gaard, is not the things you fixate on, but rather the manner in which you fixate upon them...

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Gaard
referring to this...
What amazes me Gaard, is not the things you fixate on, but rather the manner in which you fixate upon them...

OH ok Cause I was ready to give you about 30 examples of bias...

I'm not amazed by the manner of your fixation...I'll leave that to Ozoned

 

[Gaard]

I can't figure out what's wrong with my 'manner'?

 

[imported_Aelius]

You cannot change people's minds that they have decided to "set".

There is always a baseless counterpoint that they can come up with and if they cannot think of one a personal attack always works to discredit everything and everyone who isn't speaking the "line".

Enjoy.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Gaard
elaborate

He must really be writing a long reply. I think I'm in for it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I can't figure out what's wrong with my 'manner'?

Trying to figure out what Ozoned is talking about is an exercise in futility. I am consistenly at a loss to understand him. I gather he is not a native English speaker, which is not his fault, but he is certainly cryptic. It may be, though, that he just deliberately speaks in non sequiturs all the time, though, which would indisputably be his fault.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Gaard
I can't figure out what's wrong with my 'manner'?

Trying to figure out what Ozoned is talking about is an exercise in futility. I am consistenly at a loss to understand him. I gather he is not a native English speaker, which is not his fault, but he is certainly cryptic. It may be, though, that he just deliberately speaks in non sequiturs all the time, though, which would indisputably be his fault.

Hey! I take offense to this line as a non native English speaker.

Now.... please repeat what you said in ENGLISH so I can uderstand it. Too many big words in the above and got lost half way through.


j/k

=)