I'm just sick and tired of all you second-guessing, armchair quarterback, asswipes who can only sit back and critique his every move. I'll bet every single one of you who has something negative to say on his decision on this matter has never once in your life had to deal with a critical decision besides deciding what to do after you realize you've just taken a big dump and have no toilet paper. You're all a joke. I've said my piece. Flame if you want, I don't give a damn.
Actually you're all being a bunch of drama queens about this. That segment in the movie wasn't all that important, and no "bleeding heart liberals" are really upset at the Dub because of those 7 short minutes. Its the other millions of minutes he's been in office that we have a problem with...
Aha...the same shinerburke who claims to respect the opinions of others...really makes us ALL sick now.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Problem is most of his moves NEED to be critiqued if not stopped outright.
I do not know if I was in his situation what would have happened but I do know how I and my roomates at the time reacted.
And we sure as hell werent sitting there.
If it had not been a mideast issue that we provoked in the first place I would have joined up that dark week.
But then that is a non-issue.
I do not know if I was in his situation what would have happened but I do know how I and my roomates at the time reacted.
And we sure as hell werent sitting there.
If it had not been a mideast issue that we provoked in the first place I would have joined up that dark week.
But then that is a non-issue.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
talk about apologist. it makes it sound like we have no modern mass communication systems. much can be done by a leader in a few minutes. perhaps just catch up on whats happening, make sure you get that info as quick as possible. in this case it might have not made a difference,but that doesn't mean that would always be the case. the fact that he didn't try is just horrible. a total failure of leadership when it was needed most.
and really, so whats the point, that he's totally out of touch and powerless when he steps into a classroom? perhaps thats what he was like when he was on vacation ignoring the threat of terrorism.
he makes himself out ot be a strong leader, but this is what he did after his long vacation sprees, he waffled under pressure.
you just have incredibly low standards for leadership.
and really, so whats the point, that he's totally out of touch and powerless when he steps into a classroom? perhaps thats what he was like when he was on vacation ignoring the threat of terrorism.
he makes himself out ot be a strong leader, but this is what he did after his long vacation sprees, he waffled under pressure.
you just have incredibly low standards for leadership.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
- 0
Uh huh. So you and your roommates know more than the President, his staff, the CIA, FBA, DIA, and the countless other agencies that were reacting at the time. Hmmm.... So anyway back to my question. What in those 7 minutes could have been done to stop the situation?
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Stopping the situation is moot short of a really fast long range missle or a anti-implosion device to save the peoples lives but these things do not exsist.
In those 7 minutes he had a chance to be a leader instead of the mindless fool he has shown himself to be over the years.
Even a tear shed for the innocents or a stare of anger or even deep thought.
But no the video speaks for itself.
In those 7 minutes he had a chance to be a leader instead of the mindless fool he has shown himself to be over the years.
Even a tear shed for the innocents or a stare of anger or even deep thought.
But no the video speaks for itself.
The issue was never framed that way, and you're wrong to spin it so. Moore's intention was to point out at the crucial moment after 2 of our buildings had been hit and a terrorist attack was obvious, the President and his staff just sat there for 7 minutes. Its really that plain and simple.
Wake and Bake!
"dude - you think this stuff is dusted?"
"no - dude - I think that really was a plane"
"Huh. That sucks........... Dude! Stop bogarting!"
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
I think your extreme anger is misplaced here, and I'm not sure why you are so upset.
I don't think I was at all disrespectful in my critique of the President's behavior, though, as I said, I'm confident I would have handled things differently. I have in fact made a LOT of important decisions under stress (that is, in my view, the essential business of criminal litigation - you are constantly making tactical decisions while listening carefully to everything that happens, and trying to anticipate everything that WILL happen), and let's face it, this is something we entrust our President to do. It's inherent to the job, as it is for judges and battlefield generals. These people don't have the luxury of taking their time to make choices, because lives are often in the balance.
To expand on my point above, I think what resonates with people about this "infamous 7 minutes" is that they feel the President lacked decisiveness, and a sense of urgency when he needed these characteristics. You know how frustrating it is when a bartender, or a waiter, or retail employee appears to be working at their own slothlike pace, regardless of the situation? It's like that. I think most people would have been uncertain how to proceed, but most people aren't the President of the United States, and we all want to feel that our leader is confident, strong, and able to tackle every challenge. Many people seem to feel his reaction did not inspire that kind of confidence.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Look man I see things people say on here that make me saddened and even sick.
I even say things that make some of the "libs" cringe, but I try to respect others opinion.
Even some of the worst on here. -to me I know they want the best for America they just have a diffrent idea of how to go about it.
Try to respect that and you may just learn something instead of calling people out.
I even say things that make some of the "libs" cringe, but I try to respect others opinion.
Even some of the worst on here. -to me I know they want the best for America they just have a diffrent idea of how to go about it.
Try to respect that and you may just learn something instead of calling people out.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
I think that's a very dangerous way of approaching the situation. This kind of "no harm, no foul" approach effectively minimizes the importance of the President's role as Commander in Chief, and denies us the chance to view this as a lesson learned for future reference.
As I said before, I don't envy the President having to be in that situation, and I don't think his delay made any practical difference (though I am relying on the evidence provided by the 9/11 commission and the media to draw that conclusion). That said, it certainly could have, and so I think it's important for all of us, including President Bush, to learn from what happened.
Picture the situation: He was told the US was under direct attack, apparently by terrorists involved in a massive scheme involving airliners, for the first time in nearly 60 years. At the moment he got word of the second plane, the situation was completely nebulous, and he had no way of knowing how many other planes might be out there, or what other forms the attack might take (I remember "confirmed" stories that day about a truck bomb attack in DC, I believe against the Capitol).
Certain defense decisions are vested solely in the President, and surely it would have been to his benefit (and hence to the benefit of the country) to get up to speed on the situation as quickly as possible. 7 minutes might, under just slightly different circumstances, have been enough time to intercept another plane headed toward the White House, the Sears Tower, or God knows what else.
I am NOT attacking the President for his actions, but I know what I would like to have seen him do, and I hope that if another US President is ever placed in a similar situation, he reacts differently. Hence, although his inaction probably made no difference on 9/11, I think it's important to recognize that it wasn't the optimal reaction to what was happening.
It is hindsight that suggests that he could have done nothing useful in those 7 minutes. He had no way of knowing at the time what might be done. He should have proceeded to AF1 with all haste. From there he could gather the neccessary information and issue any appropriate orders. His failure to go to what amounted to his command center showed that he either had no clue about what to do, or that he did not understand his duties as President. Will he do the same if he receives word that N. Korea may have launched a nuke missile? It makes me wonder.
Man some of you people are really cruel. Both the Blog*Spot people, Michael Moore and the rest of you need to get a life. I think Bush stayed because he genuinely wanted to learn how to read. He is big on education, you know.
Maybe he just wanted to find out what happened to the goat?"The - Pet - Goat. A - girl - got - a - pet - goat. But - the - goat - did - some - things - that - made - the - girl's - dad - mad."
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 19,928
- 7,037
- 136
While this ofcourse cannot be documented, I seriously doubt that all these security procedures with time calculations was rambling through his head.
All of us was ofcourse totally shocked when it all happened, but the totally freezing of Bush doesn't show him as a man who can cope with extreme situations, which is pretty bad if you're the president of United States.
That's how I see it. I don't think it's the entire truth, and I have no idea how I (or any other) would have reacted in this situation, but Bush doesn't come out as the person well fit for decission making, no matter what kind of lame explanations are presented. I don't think he could have done anything that would have changed the history, but just some sign of resolution would have made him look much better.
AFAIK you choose your president on two reasons: his person and his politics. These 7 minutes 'attack' his person, not his politics. The clip is shown to make Bush, as a person, look weak. Therefore it's pretty stupid to explain what happened based on the 'security measure scheme', since it doesn't make Bush look any less weak. MM has clearly admitted that the movie is heavily biased and he would like to get rid of Bush, so he attacks with what he has. This will maybe change the some of the voters who voted for Bush because of his person. It's totally irrationel, but so was voting for him 'because of his person' also in the first place. So suck it up, and admit that Bush wasn't caught in his best moment
All of us was ofcourse totally shocked when it all happened, but the totally freezing of Bush doesn't show him as a man who can cope with extreme situations, which is pretty bad if you're the president of United States.
That's how I see it. I don't think it's the entire truth, and I have no idea how I (or any other) would have reacted in this situation, but Bush doesn't come out as the person well fit for decission making, no matter what kind of lame explanations are presented. I don't think he could have done anything that would have changed the history, but just some sign of resolution would have made him look much better.
AFAIK you choose your president on two reasons: his person and his politics. These 7 minutes 'attack' his person, not his politics. The clip is shown to make Bush, as a person, look weak. Therefore it's pretty stupid to explain what happened based on the 'security measure scheme', since it doesn't make Bush look any less weak. MM has clearly admitted that the movie is heavily biased and he would like to get rid of Bush, so he attacks with what he has. This will maybe change the some of the voters who voted for Bush because of his person. It's totally irrationel, but so was voting for him 'because of his person' also in the first place. So suck it up, and admit that Bush wasn't caught in his best moment
Right, I seriously boubt Dubya was thinking about security protocols - he probably didn't know much about them.
And the passage of minutes wasn't as big a deal for me as watching the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look on his face. That was not the face of a confident leader that I want making life-or-death decisions in a time of crisis.
And the passage of minutes wasn't as big a deal for me as watching the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look on his face. That was not the face of a confident leader that I want making life-or-death decisions in a time of crisis.
I hope you guys realize that Bush was told what happend between 8:46 and 8:55 right?
This was way before he ever reached the school, let alone was sitting in the classroom.
He was then told again between 8:55 and 9:00.
From what I read he missunderstood or was missinformed and thought that only one plane has crashed at this point and still thought it was an accident.
I find this not impossible to belieave, considering the person we are talking about, but he claimed again and again that he saw the first hit live.
Which is impossible to accomplish through news channels since none of them had that footage until the following day and he couldn't have meant that he saw the second plane hit since he was told of that event later in the classroom after it happend.
There are only three other options.
1. He is outright lying. I cannot come up with a reasonable cause for this and even though I think he is an idiot it makes no sense for him to claim this by lying. He seemed to ask several educated questions from those whom told him what happend (bad weather? accident?) that is not unsual for someone with flight experience to ask. This suggets he had no prior knowledge of the event that some sources claim. That's assuming he wasn't acting but lets leave the unknown out of this.
2. He saw it because there was some sort of security camera of some sorts that part of his escort/staff was watching as the event happend and he happend to see it. This is highly unlikely since security cameras do not point straight at other buildings, never have before or since. Especially not "up" at a building. This pretty much rules this option out. Even if this was somehow true why were they watching it in the first place? It would have to have been planned. It makes no sense.
3. They had purposefully setup a camera to watch the event unfold and Bush saw it as he was passing by.
Also don't forget the plane hit before Bush ever even reached the school.
Unless someone else has a possible explaination you are welcome to fire away. I cannot think of others.
When you eliminate all other possibilities the one you are left with, however improbable, must be the truth.
source
This research site does not contain everything but contains a lot of information. Some of the more unnerving peices of information is outright missing and not mentioned. Not sure why. Possibly because there is no collaborative evidence.
This was way before he ever reached the school, let alone was sitting in the classroom.
He was then told again between 8:55 and 9:00.
From what I read he missunderstood or was missinformed and thought that only one plane has crashed at this point and still thought it was an accident.
I find this not impossible to belieave, considering the person we are talking about, but he claimed again and again that he saw the first hit live.
Which is impossible to accomplish through news channels since none of them had that footage until the following day and he couldn't have meant that he saw the second plane hit since he was told of that event later in the classroom after it happend.
There are only three other options.
1. He is outright lying. I cannot come up with a reasonable cause for this and even though I think he is an idiot it makes no sense for him to claim this by lying. He seemed to ask several educated questions from those whom told him what happend (bad weather? accident?) that is not unsual for someone with flight experience to ask. This suggets he had no prior knowledge of the event that some sources claim. That's assuming he wasn't acting but lets leave the unknown out of this.
2. He saw it because there was some sort of security camera of some sorts that part of his escort/staff was watching as the event happend and he happend to see it. This is highly unlikely since security cameras do not point straight at other buildings, never have before or since. Especially not "up" at a building. This pretty much rules this option out. Even if this was somehow true why were they watching it in the first place? It would have to have been planned. It makes no sense.
3. They had purposefully setup a camera to watch the event unfold and Bush saw it as he was passing by.
Also don't forget the plane hit before Bush ever even reached the school.
Unless someone else has a possible explaination you are welcome to fire away. I cannot think of others.
When you eliminate all other possibilities the one you are left with, however improbable, must be the truth.
source
This research site does not contain everything but contains a lot of information. Some of the more unnerving peices of information is outright missing and not mentioned. Not sure why. Possibly because there is no collaborative evidence.
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