The hunt for illegals is on.

[fskimospy]

My parents paid taxes for me to receive my education, and in turn so did theirs, and so on. A person that crosses the border to give birth in an American hospital, brings their children to American emergency rooms, has their children attend American schools, etc uses far more resources than they pay back. Our system is built such that when we do bring in new citizens, they're largely educated, skilled, and/or wealthy, so that they're a net gain for our nation. Not nearly as likely when we're talking about unabated flow of cheap labor and its progeny, particularly not for those that first give birth, and then find work.

First, there is no requirement for any parent to have any income or pay any taxes for a US citizen to receive services and this is a bedrock principle of our country's success. What your parents did means nothing as to what you deserve.

Second and what I would have thought was more obvious, what you're saying is nonsensical. It is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion what the parents produce, the person getting the services is the child. The precise reason why educating them is important is so they contribute more.

In the end, the children still benefit massively by being born here. Whether we're talking someone born in America then raised in Mexico, born here and then leaving with their parents halfway through childhood, they all still gain the right to live here as adults. Their lives are made worse only in the sense that the life of a person exploiting a mistakenly-cheap Amazon/Newegg deal is made worse when the correct value is entered.

Yes, all US citizens benefit massively from being born here. At this point I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue outside of intergenerational entitlement for yourself.

Then again aren't you someone who supports eugenics?

 

[Svnla]

A lot of them have been helping their parents in the fields since they were kids. They are trained as apprentices. As opposed to your average Trump supporter who has been smoking pot and playing with amphetamines through child hood, expecting the American dream to just happen to them.

Do you have any link to support your statement about ILLEGALS and DT supporters? Helping out in the field =! trained professionals as you claimed.

I do believe that a lot of Democrats are smoking weeds, look at the states/cities that are ok with weeds recently. Look at the map from this link - http://www.thecannabist.co/2016/10/14/legal-marijuana-laws-by-state-map-united-states/62772/

A lot of blue states in that map.

 

[agent00f]

Do you have any link to support your statement about ILLEGALS and DT supporters? I do believe that a lot of Democrats are smoking weeds, look at the states/cities that are ok with weeds recently.

It's simply an objective fact that people who will work hard for their children's future make for better citizens than Trump lackeys who only know to blame everything on lower status minorities.

 

[theeedude]

Do you have any link to support your statement about ILLEGALS and DT supporters? I do believe that a lot of Democrats are smoking weeds, look at the states/cities that are ok with weeds recently.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Seems if we can't educate the children of motivated hard working people properly that says more about us than them.

A high school diploma will not earn one a job taxable enough to pay for one's government benefits. If you mean college education, that's still questionable, particularly given that 1) the best-paying degrees/careers are over-represented in Asians and Indians and under-represented in Hispanics and 2) the average child generally falls into the same social class that their parents belonged to.

First, there is no requirement for any parent to have any income or pay any taxes for a US citizen to receive services and this is a bedrock principle of our country's success. What your parents did means nothing as to what you deserve.

Second and what I would have thought was more obvious, what you're saying is nonsensical. It is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion what the parents produce, the person getting the services is the child. The precise reason why educating them is important is so they contribute more.

Didn't say there was such a requirement, but it's implicitly something our social system (e.g. social security and medicare both being paid for by taxes during working years) as well as our immigration system (due to the stringent requirements of coming here legally) strives for. Birthright citizenship is legally-enforced charity as is currently practiced.

Yes, all US citizens benefit massively from being born here. At this point I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue outside of intergenerational entitlement for yourself.

Then again aren't you someone who supports eugenics?

I'm arguing that the benefit they receive from US citizenship still by far outweighs the potential downside of leaving with one's parents during childhood.

I do believe that we should strive to take in only the best and create as strong of an American gene pool as possible. While I understand and to an extent even respect the bleeding-heart position of wanting to perform charity for the rest of the world, no one seems to be willing to admit that the only reason the entire developing world doesn't exploit our generosity is because of geography.

 

[Zaap]

It's not a perfect analogy of course, no doubt our relationship with Latin America allows us to have one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world, but the key factor is that immigrants are often brought in to fill lower-level jobs that ethnic natives won't. And that's just Germany; Poles got to enter the UK with ease thanks to the EU (though that obviously may change soon), and filled in those same jobs.

"Brought in to fill jobs ethnic natives won't..." for shit wages and crap work conditions isn't a legit argument to me, and that's often the case.

It not being the case doesn't even make an ounce of sense, if you actually think about it. What it says is, people actually think Americans are superior and foreginers are naturally inferior. Hence, they will just naturally do things that native citizens won't.

That's a complete crock of shit, and you have to know it. Fly over the damn country some time, and look out the fucking window. MOST of the country is farmland. All you'll see mostly- anywhere- is endless farms and feilds. There are PLENTY of Americans doing whatever needs to be done to manage that land and grow things on it. No, it's not *all* flooded full of exploited Mexican workers.

Farming is not something rural Americans ever really had an aversion to- it's something spoiled, idiot, city-born nitwits who never venture out of their bubble think everyone else in the country is unable to do. The problem is, the family farm that used to exist doesn't work as well any more with the increasing expectation of corporate farms full of illegal labor.

And another thing- working class Brits out of work don't think its a wonderful thing Poles are being exploited doing the work their parents used to make good livings doing. Most think it's an outright crock of SHIT- and it is.

I didn't say anything about agriculture specifically, and agree that there are many types of employment where employers are happy to save on wage payments.

This is amazing- so an employer BREAKING THE FUCKING LAW to 'save on wage payments' is perfectly acceptable because... because the fuck why again?

When did people become such suck-ups for whatever business wants? What's next? If it's cool and socially acceptable to dump a company's waste in the nearest river- that'll certain save on some payments' should we allow that too?

There's all kinds of way businesses can cheat and 'save on costs' but if they break the law, why the fuck would anyone cheerlead for that? Why do we even have labor and immigration laws then?

I'd imagine that the jobs you mentioned have a lower delta between illegal wages and minimum wage if anything (I could trust a guy to pick berries for $3/hr maybe but probably not to put in new plumbing), and on top of that, you can probably find plenty of illegals freelancing outside of your local Home Depot or tree orphanage.

There's no reason to hire someone illegally vs. legal labor unless you're paying them below what the legal labor should expect to make, and/or working them in conditions that legal labor wouldn't put up with. I don't care what the amounts are. Do business in this country, and benefit from the advanced infastructure, without outsourcing so some shithole? Then operate within the LAWS. Hiring illegal workforces should be punishable with stiff fines and jail time in this country, as it is in many others that haven't fallen for the stupid ruse of all this.

Based on your $15 wages comment I assume you're not a fan of raising the minimum wage?

It's not about what I'm a fan of- I'm just saying you can't even reasonably HAVE that conversation if you're willing to turn a blind eye to business skirting the current labor laws!

It's like me saying, forgive people who drink and drive- they just want to get home.... allow them sanctuary zones... and in the next breath being outraged that people get killed by drunk drivers and trying to argue why the hell don't we crack down on this?? One position shoots the other right in the ass.

One of the big problems is that there's no incentive to do menial labor for low pay when you can just collect welfare as an American citizen.

Whole seperate issue, but why the hell would I argue for businesses to be able to exploit illegal labor and be happy someone's exploited and working for 'shit'... and then think that EXPECTATION of that work being a 'pays shit' occupation somehow helps the problem of Americans collecting welfare rather than work jobs that pay shit?

So if a citizen once made their living as say, a nanny... suddenly that job is turned to shit because people only want to hire a constant stream of illegals for fucking peanuts, work them half to death, and if they quit, no problem, another will be along. (by the way I know a bunch of people who were in exactly that situation).

Then the citizen finds it better to collect welfare than compete for shit in what used to be a job they could make a living at...

... my solution is to cheerlead for more of the same, and more occupations to be made similar? THAT's how I'd combat that problem?

I guess only if putting 2+2 together and figuring out that supporting that would just be shooting in the ass any of my arguments about people finding welfare better than shit jobs, was too hard for me.

Also, it's not always that welfare is the solution for people displaced from occupations by illegal labor- they just are forced to compete in other industries, adding competition for jobs in those industries, which also drives down wages.

Who likes to show up at an interview for a job vs. 100 other desparate candidates... vs. do 10 interviews for jobs where each is desperate to hire you and willing to outbid the other? Stupid people in this country think the first option is better. Gotta suck up to what employers want afterall, because situation #1 is AWESOME for them, and situation #2 means whining to their government puppets that they need to bring in someone for those "jobs that they can't find Americans to do, boo hoo!" (ie: no one is flocking to the peanuts they want to pay, and the third-worlder 'outsourced-yet-in-country' crap work conditions they want to have).

 

[Svnla]

LOL @ IL, MI, IN as red states/DT supporting states. IL is bluest of all blue states. But of course, by any mean necessary, right? See my link above about states that are ok with weeds, mostly blue states.

 

[agent00f]

A high school diploma will not earn one a job taxable enough to pay for one's government benefits. If you mean college education, that's still questionable, particularly given that 1) the best-paying degrees/careers are over-represented in Asians and Indians and under-represented in Hispanics and 2) the average child generally falls into the same social class that their parents belonged to.

Seems exactly the kind of failure mentioned. I mean, the lowest inter-generational mobility in the first world is nothing to brag about, and we have these white nationalist types above to thank for it.

Of course asians/descendants do relatively well against the mean because we only take the best and brightest, but they still underperform for their for educational attainment for some reason, and I think you know why.

 

[JockoJohnson]

It's not actually a real word. It's my adaptation of the word Lügenpresse which is, basically, lying press. I've linked several articles to give you a bit of background on the word and it's history and it's resurgence in use and why.

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...ous-word-americas-alt-right-learns-speak-nazi

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...npresse-a-nazi-slur-shouted-at-a-trump-rally/

http://time.com/4544562/donald-trump-supporters-lugenpresse/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lying_press

Thank you for the reply and information.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

"Brought in to fill jobs ethnic natives won't..." for shit wages and crap work conditions isn't a legit argument to me, and that's often the case.

It not being the case doesn't even make an ounce of sense, if you actually think about it. What it says is, people actually think Americans are superior and foreginers are naturally inferior. Hence, they will just naturally do things that native citizens won't.

That's a complete crock of shit, and you have to know it. Fly over the damn country some time, and look out the fucking window. MOST of the country is farmland. All you'll see mostly- anywhere- is endless farms and feilds. There are PLENTY of Americans doing whatever needs to be done to manage that land and grow things on it. No, it's not *all* flooded full of exploited Mexican workers.

Farming is not something rural Americans ever really had an aversion to- it's something spoiled, idiot, city-born nitwits who never venture out of their bubble think everyone else in the country is unable to do. The problem is, the family farm that used to exist doesn't work as well any more with the increasing expectation of corporate farms full of illegal labor.

I'd argue that many Americans do feel superior. People like the feeling of being waited on, of being the boss of people, of exerting minimal physical effort. Maybe you're not aware, but rural America has been gradually draining into the cities. My great-grandparents were farmers. Their descendants (well, the good ones) were mostly engineers and scientists. Ask most white Americans and you'll find that their families did farming just a few generations ago. Stuff can change quickly.

This is amazing- so an employer BREAKING THE FUCKING LAW to 'save on wage payments' is perfectly acceptable because... because the fuck why again?

When did people become such suck-ups for whatever business wants? What's next? If it's cool and socially acceptable to dump a company's waste in the nearest river- that'll certain save on some payments' should we allow that too?

There's all kinds of way businesses can cheat and 'save on costs' but if they break the law, why the fuck would anyone cheerlead for that? Why do we even have labor and immigration laws then?

Oh it's definitely a problem, but the bigger one is that we have a system that makes not working too easy.

There's no reason to hire someone illegally vs. legal labor unless you're paying them below what the legal labor should expect to make, and/or working them in conditions that legal labor wouldn't put up with. I don't care what the amounts are. Do business in this country, and benefit from the advanced infastructure, without outsourcing so some shithole? Then operate within the LAWS. Hiring illegal workforces should be punishable with stiff fines and jail time in this country, as it is in many others that haven't fallen for the stupid ruse of all this.

That's not necessarily true, wages are just one part of costs. There are also working hour considerations, assorted paperwork, and other things. If Jose can band together some gardening supplies, a pick-up truck, and two of his buddies, then go around looking for prospective homeowners to employ them, all the employer has to do is write out a check at the end of the month, which could potentially exceed minimum wage.

It's not about what I'm a fan of- I'm just saying you can't even reasonably HAVE that conversation if you're willing to turn a blind eye to business skirting the current labor laws!

It's like me saying, forgive people who drink and drive- they just want to get home.... allow them sanctuary zones... and in the next breath being outraged that people get killed by drunk drivers and trying to argue why the hell don't we crack down on this?? One position shoots the other right in the ass.

Agreed.

Whole seperate issue, but why the hell would I argue for businesses to be able to exploit illegal labor and be happy someone's exploited and working for 'shit'... and then think that EXPECTATION of that work being a 'pays shit' occupation somehow helps the problem of Americans collecting welfare rather than work jobs that pay shit?

So if a citizen once made their living as say, a nanny... suddenly that job is turned to shit because people only want to hire a constant illegals for fucking peanuts, work them half to death, and if they quit, no problem, another will be along.. (by the way I know a bunch of people who were in exactly that situation) then the citizen finds it better to collect welfare than compete for shit in what used to be a job they could make a living at...

... my solution is to cheerlead for more of the same, and more occupations to be made similar? THAT's how I'd combat that problem?

I guess only if putting 2+2 together and figuring out that supporting that would just be shooting any of my arguments about people finding welfare better than shit jobs in the ass was too hard for me to figure out.

The kind of jobs many illegals perform are also the kind that are at risk of replacement by automation, and ones that aren't still aren't necessarily valuable at a "livable" (by American standards) wage. E.g., if John Doe is a middle-upper class American that wants to have his big McMansion dusted by a maid, he can maybe afford that at $5/hr but not at what an American maid would demand. The job isn't filled by an American, it simply disappears (or maybe he gets his good-for-nothing kids to help around the house instead).

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Seems exactly the kind of failure mentioned. I mean, the lowest inter-generational mobility in the first world is nothing to brag about, and we have these white nationalist types above to thank for it.

Of course asians/descendants do relatively well against the mean because we only take the best and brightest, but they still underperform for their for educational attainment for some reason, and I think you know why.

Where are you getting that from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity_and_race

Asians dominate other ethnic groups. In fact, Asians are the largest victims of affirmative action, something purportedly in place to help minorities, because of how successful and educated they are.

EDIT: Thanks for getting that wrong btw, you made me discover something I wasn't aware of that proves my point further:

The percentage of the foreign born [Hispanics] with a high school diploma (67 percent) was dramatically lower than that of the native population (88 percent), but paradoxically, the percentage with a bachelor's degree was the same (27 percent)... At the bachelor's level, foreign born Blacks and non-Hispanic Whites fared better than their native counterparts. Foreign-born Hispanics, in contrast, had a smaller proportion with a bachelor's degree than the native population... The low educational attainment of foreign-born Hispanics, who compose more than 50 percent of the Hispanic population, contributes to the low attainment levels of the entire Hispanic population.
— US Census Bureau, 2003

 

[imported_tajmahal]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ricans-overwhelmingly-oppose-sanctuary-cities

Poll showing that 80% of Americans oppose sanctuary cities and support President Trump's illegal immigration efforts.

 

[agent00f]

Where are you getting that from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity_and_race

Asians dominate other ethnic groups. In fact, Asians are the largest victims of affirmative action, something purportedly in place to help minorities, because of how successful and educated they are.

EDIT: Thanks for getting that wrong btw, you made me discover something I wasn't aware of that proves my point further:

Look at the relatively similar incomes of Asians vs whites despite the massive edu gap. No wonder they're the model minorities.

 

[fskimospy]

Didn't say there was such a requirement, but it's implicitly something our social system (e.g. social security and medicare both being paid for by taxes during working years) as well as our immigration system (due to the stringent requirements of coming here legally) strives for. Birthright citizenship is legally-enforced charity as is currently practiced.

Medicare and social security are at best tangentially related to taxes during working years and the vast majority of our welfare state has no such requirement so no, that's not correct. It's not charity, it's the idea that our country is the place where people who are capable can utilize their talents.

I'm arguing that the benefit they receive from US citizenship still by far outweighs the potential downside of leaving with one's parents during childhood.

I do believe that we should strive to take in only the best and create as strong of an American gene pool as possible.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every attempt to 'improve the gene pool' has ended in horror. We should throw eugenics in the trash can of history where it and other failed ideas belong.

While I understand and to an extent even respect the bleeding-heart position of wanting to perform charity for the rest of the world, no one seems to be willing to admit that the only reason the entire developing world doesn't exploit our generosity is because of geography.

Well that's because what you're saying is obviously wrong. Shockingly enough, lots and lots of people aren't willing to abandon everything they know in order to move to a new country based on a vague promise. You don't even need to look outside of the US to see something that obvious. People frequently stay in economically destitute areas of the US despite the ability to move, a shared language and culture, and no threat of legal sanction.

We should really dispense with these sorts of silly ideas that sound good and tough but are really based on nothing. It's not 'bleeding heart', it's 'engaged brain'.

 

[fskimospy]

Seems exactly the kind of failure mentioned. I mean, the lowest inter-generational mobility in the first world is nothing to brag about, and we have these white nationalist types above to thank for it.

Of course asians/descendants do relatively well against the mean because we only take the best and brightest, but they still underperform for their for educational attainment for some reason, and I think you know why.

It is kind of interesting that people use our country's failure at generating intergenerational economic mobility as a reason to exclude poor people as opposed to a reason to improve that mobility. That sort of logical failure is simply baffling.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Look at the relatively similar incomes of Asians vs whites despite the massive edu gap. No wonder they're the model minorities.

Medicare and social security are at best tangentially related to taxes during working years and the vast majority of our welfare state has no such requirement so no, that's not correct. It's not charity, it's the idea that our country is the place where people who are capable can utilize their talents.

Services directly paid for via payroll taxes are "at best tangentially related to taxes during working years"?

The talent of performing menial labor? Yeah OK.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every attempt to 'improve the gene pool' has ended in horror. We should throw eugenics in the trash can of history where it and other failed ideas belong.

It's already working, look at Margaret Sanger's legacy, think of all the poor people's babies we'd be supporting right now if not for available abortion.

Well that's because what you're saying is obviously wrong. Shockingly enough, lots and lots of people aren't willing to abandon everything they know in order to move to a new country based on a vague promise. You don't even need to look outside of the US to see something that obvious. People frequently stay in economically destitute areas of the US despite the ability to move, a shared language and culture, and no threat of legal sanction.

We should really dispense with these sorts of silly ideas that sound good and tough but are really based on nothing. It's not 'bleeding heart', it's 'engaged brain'.

They don't have to abandon anything. Both the parents and the American-born child retain their Mexican citizenship. Pop one out in an American hospital, get your proof of birth, and voila, free citizenship. They could get it done and be back in their homeland within days, and just sit on that citizenship until their child is of age. If the parents illegally choose to stick around so that their child may legally go to American schools, that's on them, they obviously weighed the pros and cons and decided staying in America was better. Should they be caught by ICE, sucks to be them, but they've still come out ahead.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Thank you for the reply and information.

You're welcome.

The word/concept has an interesting, if depressing, history.

 

[agent00f]

Yes, notice they're only 10k apart for households, even though asians have something like double the college degree ratio, like 50+% vs 28 or something.

But for individuals, which is what matters here:
"In 2009, the median income for Asian males was $37,330, compared to the median income for non-Hispanic white males of $36,785."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States

this would suggest that more asian households are dual income.

 

[Darwin333]

Yeh, fuck those American kids. Nasty little brown bastids shoulda picked better parents.

I'm curious, what other laws do you feel we should not enforce if the violators of said laws have kids and enforcing said laws would remove their parents? Hell most of us would pick being sent to another country over jail so an argument can be made that it's worse when kids parents are sent to jail.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yes, notice they're only 10k apart for households, even though asians have something like double the college degree ratio, like 50+% vs 28 or something.

But for individuals, which is what matters here:
"In 2009, the median income for Asian males was $37,330, compared to the median income for non-Hispanic white males of $36,785."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States

this would suggest that more asian households are dual income.

Hmm, fair enough, looks like you're right. Not sure what this means to your broader argument; do you think the primary driver between that education/income gap is racism? There are still a lot of decent paying jobs (plumbing, electrical work, oil work, etc) that 1) don't require a a college degree and 2) are dominated by blue-collar workers, two things that Asian culture/tradition may work against. I'm sure there's probably some degree of discrimination against Asians, we already know there is against women (significantly lower than the usual 78 cents statistic though) and blacks, but it's hard to know how much of a white vs Asian gap in income is due to that.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm curious, what other laws do you feel we should not enforce if the violators of said laws have kids and enforcing said laws would remove their parents? Hell most of us would pick being sent to another country over jail so an argument can be made that it's worse when kids parents are sent to jail.

We're talking about millions of American Citizen children of otherwise law abiding people who just don't have the right paperwork. That's it. That's all that's "wrong" with them.

The children matter more than self righteous bullshit about who should & shouldn't be in this country. Well, unless you're somebody more impressed by xenophobic propaganda than the welfare of American children. Only then can you depersonalize them.

All the ravers need to get over themselves. If Mom, Dad, both or their brothers & sisters get lucky enough to have an American citizen child or sibling just declare them to be winners, give 'em a green card & STFU. I'm confident that it won't be enough trouble for this great country to matter in the slightest.

 

[gplracer]

Follow the law. If you do not like the law then try to change it. They are called illegals for a reason. When they decided to break the law to come into the country they took the risk that they might be caught and deported. They take jobs of Americans who are here as citizens. People use illegal labor because they can pay them less. Without illegal labor they would be forced to use American labor. I do not see why this is an issue? If you break the law you suffer the consequence. Anything else is just making excuses for breaking the law. They knew they were breaking the law when entering the country.

 

[agent00f]

Hmm, fair enough, looks like you're right. Not sure what this means to your broader argument; do you think the primary driver between that education/income gap is racism? There are still a lot of decent paying jobs (plumbing, electrical work, oil work, etc) that 1) don't require a a college degree and 2) are dominated by blue-collar workers, two things that Asian culture/tradition may work against. I'm sure there's probably some degree of discrimination against Asians, we already know there is against women (significantly lower than the usual 78 cents statistic though) and blacks, but it's hard to know how much of a white vs Asian gap in income is due to that.

I'm just point out there's something going on here in spite of the typical asian/white parity often brandied about. There's just no way a group with such a difference in edu should be paid the same, esp when asians are somewhat known to go for practical degrees. I suspect part of it is the lower status asians (often from SE asia, etc) are basically treated like brown counterparts and shut out from the "good" jobs, and part of it is due to the "model minority" (read: obedient) stereotype that asians won't complain too much if disadvantaged in some way, like if passed over for a promotion they'll continued to keep their head down and work hard.

 

[gplracer]

We're talking about millions of American Citizen children of otherwise law abiding people who just don't have the right paperwork. That's it. That's all that's "wrong" with them.

The children matter more than self righteous bullshit about who should & shouldn't be in this country. Well, unless you're somebody more impressed by xenophobic propaganda than the welfare of American children. Only then can you depersonalize them.

All the ravers need to get over themselves. If Mom, Dad, both or their brothers & sisters get lucky enough to have an American citizen child or sibling just declare them to be winners, give 'em a green card & STFU. I'm confident that it won't be enough trouble for this great country to matter in the slightest.

So if a parent commits a crime we do not arrest that person because it is hard on the children? We are talking about people who decided to break the law and sneak into the country. They are not just people without paperwork. THEY BROKE THE LAW! It is an unfortunate situation for the other members of the family but still a law was broken.

 

[Jhhnn]

So if a parent commits a crime we do not arrest that person because it is hard on the children? We are talking about people who decided to break the law and sneak into the country. They are not just people without paperwork. THEY BROKE THE LAW! It is an unfortunate situation for the other members of the family but still a law was broken.

Laws are selectively enforced all the time. I'm sure we could basically eliminate speeding if we just gave it enough attention, didn't worry about things that are a helluva lot worse. It's the same with immigration, other than the innocent child victims left in the wake of enforcement.

It's an issue designed to inflame the rubes who can't get over themselves.