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The Hammer is falling as the Insurrectionists are identified.

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fskimospy said:
While I agree they all wanted to stop the certification I don't agree they all wanted to stop it in the same way and some are legal and some are not. If you're able to convince Congress to stop the certification through peaceful protest/political action I think that would be *very bad* for the country, but I would hardly say the person doing that has committed a crime and telling your congressman to do that is first amendment protected political speech.

The people who smashed in doors, attacked police, etc. most certainly did commit crimes, but I don't think there's any plausible argument that everyone else should be viewed as engaging that as well.


To me it seems like this would be more of a 'threats against government officials' thing, but I'm not informed enough about how all that works to know where the first amendment would stop protecting it.
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Could anyone who broke into a closed bank try to claim I wasn't trying to rob it?
 
outriding said:
In this instance you will be charged with some form of attempted robbery
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No, because robbery is the taking of property through force or fear and presumably there's noe on in the bank to take property from as it's closed.

If the bank's closed it's presumably at night so you would be most likely charged with burglary of some sort, not robbery.
 
outriding said:
In this instance you will be charged with some form of attempted robbery
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What if you didn't break in, but someone accidentally left the door unlocked that night so you just walked in?

Just that this tangent reminds me of the Michael Fagan case. Which was _seriously_ bizarre, and led to a change in the law so that for certain places trespass became a criminal offence.
 
4wm1bh.jpg



www.businessinsider.com

A Capitol riot suspect is being 'shunned' by people in her small Indiana town and 'chastised on the street,' lawyer says

Dona Bissey's lawyer pleaded for leniency, saying Bissey had lost many customers at her hair salon since her arrest in February.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
fskimospy said:
So there you would have to prove that chanting those words was both intended and likely to provoke imminent lawless action. If people are already acting lawlessly it seems impossible to prove that your speech is what provoked it, no?

So you need to show that the purpose of that chant was to get people to storm the capitol. This also has to be before they did it, because you can't retroactively incite something.
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That was not i was going for in my response..

more or less... you just want to protest " the stolen election" ... then you see all these other things go on..

Then you should just leave this is no longer safe and you should leave.. in other words stop being an idiot and leave.. too many nut jobs here
 
pmv said:
What if you didn't break in, but someone accidentally left the door unlocked that night so you just walked in?

Just that this tangent reminds me of the Michael Fagan case. Which was _seriously_ bizarre, and led to a change in the law so that for certain places trespass became a criminal offence.
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Believe that would qualify as trespassing.
 
outriding said:
That was not i was going for in my response..

more or less... you just want to protest " the stolen election" ... then you see all these other things go on..

Then you should just leave this is no longer safe and you should leave.. in other words stop being an idiot and leave.. too many nut jobs here
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I mean they were idiots for showing up to protest a 'stolen election' that obviously wasn't stolen to begin with. Essentially they decided the Constitution shouldn't be followed anymore because losing hurt their feelings.
 
Whatever the charge, this is the first time post Civil War that the peaceful transfer of power in the US was interrupted by force. That deserves a big punishment. And a majority of GQP'ers kinda sympathize with the traitors.

The GQP is a party of traitors.

As Conservative David Frum observed during Trump's presidency, 'if conservatives can't win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy'

as we see by our resident conservative garbage, they are encouraging and continuing the voter fraud mythos and constant audits and voter suppression in order to stifle and delegitimize democracy if it doesn't swing their way next time.
 
fskimospy said:
Yes, although if Trump did somehow win I could totally see him retroactively pardoning them all.

The entire insurrection is a weird case in the idea that the overall outcome of the attack on the Capitol is a dire threat to democracy but the only laws we have that address individual conduct for the most part are trespassing and unlawful entry laws. There's no real 'trying to overthrow democracy' law that's going to apply to the vast majority of these people. Outside of the ones who actually attacked people and/or did the breaking in I'm not sure there should be. Like, how seriously should we punish someone for unlawful entry?
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Can the president pardon a misdemeanor? I assume so, but other than as a stunt, it's meaningless. Though I could see Trump doing just to thumb his nose at the democrats.
I'm waiting to see if anyone is actually charged with insurrection. I keep hearing the event called an insurrection, but that seems just a bit inaccurate if no one is ever charged with it.
 
Greenman said:
Can the president pardon a misdemeanor? I assume so, but other than as a stunt, it's meaningless. Though I could see Trump doing just to thumb his nose at the democrats.
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The president can pardon ‘offenses against the United States’ which I imagine would cover everything down to a DC parking ticket.

You’re right it wouldn’t really do anything, I think Trump would do it to thumb his nose at his enemies yes, but also to advance the narrative that attacking the Capitol to keep him in power was good.
I'm waiting to see if anyone is actually charged with insurrection. I keep hearing the event called an insurrection, but that seems just a bit inaccurate if no one is ever charged with it.
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I think this is highlighting the difference between the legal and the colloquial definition of ‘insurrection’ in the same way that ‘treason’ is thrown around but may not actually fulfill the definition of treason in federal law.
Will anyone be charged and convicted under the insurrection act? I doubt it. Was this a ‘violent uprising against an authority or government’? Inarguably. The government was changing who controlled it and they violently attacked the officials who were doing it.
 
fskimospy said:
No, because robbery is the taking of property through force or fear and presumably there's noe on in the bank to take property from as it's closed.

If the bank's closed it's presumably at night so you would be most likely charged with burglary of some sort, not robbery.
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Still a fucking crime, but you just want to argue semantics. They real question is, why?
 
ivwshane said:
Anyone know if anyone has been charged with insurrection yet?
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Not as of now.
Here's the charges so far. I'm not sure which ones are the most serious.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases


As to the "armed" conversation -
Looks like there are 2 instances of:
Unlawful Possession of a Firearm on Capitol Grounds or Buildings

And about 7 of:
Unlawful Possession of a Dangerous Weapon on Capitol Grounds or Buildings

So far
 
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