The GTX 780, 770, 760 ti Thread *First review leaked $700+?*

[DooKey]

This release of NV cards is going to cost AMD even more discrete video cards business. Like I've said time after time......MOST video card purchases are made by ordinary people that don't overclock their cards. MOST video card purchases are made by ordinary people that don't bitcoin. The market is once again going to crap on AMD because they aren't competing this round. I welcome competition, but the 700 family is uncontested in the market of new video cards and the market will reward NV.

 

[RussianSensation]

Overclocking might not be very important to current Nvidia owners but it sure helps the people who own the 7950 and 7970.

After GTX460/470/GTX560Ti, NV users apparently forgot how to overclock. I mean really who buys a cheaper GPU nowadays to save $ by overclocking it to perform near $400-500 level one? Blasphemy. Let's all spend $500-1000 and quit OC, change our forum to BestBuy.com.

http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/359/bench/Overclocking_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/359/bench/Overclocking_02.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/359/bench/Overclocking_01.png

 

[BallaTheFeared]

So i win my argument and now we have to change it to something else?

What does the 580 have to do with my post?

I wasn't arguing with you, I stopped doing that a long time ago.

I was just noticing that AMD hasn't really made any gains over Fermi with their driver updates, whatever happens with their last gen driver support is none of my concern (or theirs most likely).

 

[wand3r3r]

Yeah at least they are doing something, I give NV credit for that... It's pretty long to go 2 years or more without a refresh (AMD!).

Although I guess they aren't quite in line for price/performance atm anyway, so price drops or otherwise would be necessary imo.

The price still is unknown though. If they just drop them in with titanic prices it will suck worse than not releasing anything.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

This is enthusiast forum. HD7970 @ 1180mhz is 79% faster than a stock HD6970 for a $180 price increase ($550 vs. $370).

So we compare overclocked vs stock?

Why $370, why not $220 which is what unlocked 6950's were going for when the 7970 came out?

I know AMD cards were generally garbage for overclocking last gen, but you could give it something... :whiste:

 

[Rvenger]

I wasn't arguing with you, I stopped doing that a long time ago.

I was just noticing that AMD hasn't really made any gains over Fermi with their driver updates, whatever happens with their last gen driver support is none of my concern (or theirs most likely).

AMD GCN had performance gains... but the GTX 580 also had some in the process due to it being a similar architecture as Kepler. It's a win-win for Nvidia but Radeon users on the VLIW4/5 architecture got the shaft.

 

[RussianSensation]

Although I guess they aren't quite in line for price/performance atm anyway, so price drops or otherwise would be necessary imo.

There is still a possibility that 780 might cost $500. Fingers crossed.
http://videocardz.com/41552/exclusive-nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-picture

Why $370, why not $220 which is what unlocked 6950's were going for when the 7970 came out?

Sure, then let's start comparing $300 HD7950 @ 1225mhz vs. GTX680/780 on price/performance. The point is HD7970 was a huge increase in performance over GTX580 OC or HD6970 OC.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not a chance. $650 if they are "generous". Everyone is ready to pay $700, so let them.

 

[tviceman]

This is enthusiast forum. HD7970 @ 1180mhz is 79% faster than a stock HD6970 for a $180 price increase ($550 vs. $370).

Goalpost shifting and overclocking one card but not another in 3...2...1.... Triple standards FTW!

 

[BallaTheFeared]

There is still a possibility that 780 might cost $500. Fingers crossed.
http://videocardz.com/41552/exclusive-nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-picture



Sure, then let's start comparing $300 HD7950 @ 1225mhz vs. GTX680/780 on price/performance. The point is HD7970 was a huge increase in performance over GTX580 OC or HD6970 OC.

My 7950s can't even do 1225 across all games, why not just say 1300 and ignore that supermassive luck of draw all together? And that's with 1.3v which comes at the cost of a seriously huge power hike, weren't you moaning in the other thread about the guy who did 1225 on his cards and showed how terrible the power draw was?

Max it out for performance, but tone it back for power draw. lolz ahoy!

We can pretend every 470 did 960 core like mine too shoot we can ignore power draw now as well

That's why we use stock, so people like you don't pretend every card does x amount and then people who get crap cards don't feel like they got ripped off by online marketing members.

 

[SirPauly]

Indeed!

 

[tviceman]

Sure, then let's start comparing $300 HD7950 @ 1225mhz vs. GTX680/780 on price/performance. The point is HD7970 was a huge increase in performance over GTX580 OC or HD6970 OC.

Why in the world is it an even remotely close to fair comparison to compare one massively overclocked card to one at stock speeds? And the 7970HD was absolutely not a "huge increase" over an overclocked gtx580.

What in the world are you smoking??

 

[wand3r3r]

Can you find more than one sentence that you can respond to? I guess it was the only one you can easily refute?

 

[Fx1]

I wasn't arguing with you, I stopped doing that a long time ago.

I was just noticing that AMD hasn't really made any gains over Fermi with their driver updates, whatever happens with their last gen driver support is none of my concern (or theirs most likely).

ok fair enough i just didnt understand the correlation between the 580 and 7970 in relation to the point i was making between the 6970 and 7970.

 

[24601]

7950s do not clock to 1225 mhz 100% stably.

Me and all my bitcoin/litecoin compatriots that game as well know this all too well.

You get 1050-1100 100% stably, any higher and you have crash after crash.

Same thing for 7970s, you get 1050-1100 100% stably, any higher and you have crash after crash.

Not everyone bought a MSI 7970 Lightning. Stock VRMs on the 7970 was never very good and 80% of the current cards are sporting inferior to stock 7970 VRMs.

These cards most likely can do higher at lower volts if they were equipped with MSI 7970 Lightning VRMs and MSI 7970 Twin Frozr IV, but they are not.

 

[Fx1]

7950s do not clock to 1225 mhz 100% stably.

Me and all my bitcoin/litecoin compatriots that game as well know this all too well.

You get 1050-1100 100% stably, any higher and you have crash after crash.

Same thing for 7970s, you get 1050-1100 100% stably, any higher and you have crash after crash.

Not everyone bought a MSI 7970 Lightning. Stock VRMs on the 7970 was never very good and 80% of the current cards are sporting inferior to stock 7970 VRMs.

These cards most likely can do higher at lower volts if they were equipped with MSI 7970 Lightning VRMs and MSI 7970 Twin Frozr IV, but they are not.

Reference MSI 7970 does 1125 on stock volts for that card. My card does anyway. A lot of reviewers did 1125 quite easy on launch also. id say anything more is a gamble. You can always do 1050 though which is max clock on the ghz cards.

 

[Face2Face]

7950s do not clock to 1225 mhz 100% stably.

Some do

With work

 

[24601]

Some do

With work

Usually when I talk to them and get them to do actually 100% taxing things on their cards or DirectX 9 they start crashing.

Only exception is MSI 7970 Lightning because of improved VRMs.

 

[24601]

Reference MSI 7970 does 1125 on stock volts for that card. My card does anyway. A lot of reviewers did 1125 quite easy on launch also. id say anything more is a gamble. You can always do 1050 though which is max clock on the ghz cards.

Those reviewers are the same people who talk of Furmark and the like as "Power Viruses" and left powertune at 0%

If you aren't putting powertune at +20% all you're doing is under-clocking your card when it's the bottleneck (when its at actually close to 100% load, not just 100% GPU time).

Litecoin mining is in actuality only 90% at most actual load, its just good at using alot of power.

Bitcoin mining is in actuality only 60-70% at most actual load.

I find the best tests of stability for 79xx series gpu-limited Direct-X 9 titles that are well optimized. They seem to hard-crash and artifact the most.

 

[Rvenger]

There is still a possibility that 780 might cost $500. Fingers crossed.
http://videocardz.com/41552/exclusive-nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-picture

If that is the case then I AM IN !! I would feel bad for the single titan owners.

 

[Face2Face]

Usually when I talk to them and get them to do actually 100% taxing things on their cards or DirectX 9 they start crashing.

Only exception is MSI 7970 Lightning because of improved VRMs.

What tests did you have in mind?

 

[badb0y]

Where did all the former GTX 460 owners go? Wasn't that card revered for it's overclocking? Overclocking is definitely fair game....just because nVidia neuters your overclocking ability doesn't mean it's "shifting the goalpost." IIRC there were a lot of people crapping on the AMD 5870 because a heavily overclocked GTX 460 can match/exceed it.

 

[24601]

What tests did you have in mind?

For me I can get any of my not 100% stable cards to crash in World of Tanks with enhanced graphics on, 16x Anisotropic Filtering and 4x MSAA with 4.5 GHz 3570k @ 1080p.
This will start artifacting within 3 hours if the card is not 100% stable.

Another good test is MechWarrior Online with most of the image dehancing shaders off, since its DirectX-9 with Cryengine 3, basically the perfect storm of utilization. As long as you make sure you are not shader or CPU limited, it will crash or artifact at 90% of the rate of the above World of Tanks test within 2 hours play.

I'm thinking this is probably something to do with 79xx's inferior ROPs.
It becomes far easier to see this happening if you put your RAM at max stable clocks, since the memory bandwidth + inferior ROP is what's limiting the card into not crashing as often as it should.

The memory on my cards is never itself the problem since it doesn't throw memory errors until 1800+ mhz.
I'm pretty sure it's just the ROPs.

You could also get your cards clocked higher stably on older drivers than newer drivers since the older drivers had just plain lower actual utilization.

 

[Face2Face]

For me I can get any of my not 100% stable cards to crash in World of Tanks with enhanced graphics on, 16x Anisotropic Filtering and 4x MSAA with 4.5 GHz 3570k @ 1080p.
This will start artifacting within 3 hours if the card is not 100% stable.

Another good test is MechWarrior Online with most of the image dehancing shaders off, since its DirectX-9 with Cryengine 3, basically the perfect storm of utilization. As long as you make sure you are not shader or CPU limited, it will crash or artifact at 90% of the rate of the above World of Tanks test within 2 hours play.

I'm thinking this is probably something to do with 79xx's inferior ROPs.
It becomes far easier to see this happening if you put your RAM at max stable clocks, since the memory bandwidth + inferior ROP is what's limiting the card into not crashing as often as it should.

The memory on my cards is never itself the problem since it doesn't throw memory errors until 1800+ mhz.
I'm pretty sure it's just the ROPs.

Not trying to get to off topic -

Sucks, but I don't have any of the games you mentioned, I tend to use Crysis 3 as a good overclock benchmark. I have only recently gamed for 1.5 hrs playing @ 1250/1650 and it's stable for me - VRM's are under 100c and core temps are @ 60c and below.

 

[24601]

Not trying to get to off topic -

Sucks, but I don't have any of the games you mentioned, I tend to use Crysis 3 as a good overclock benchmark. I have only recently gamed for 1.5 hrs playing @ 1250/1650 and it's stable for me - VRM's are under 100c and core temps are @ 60c and below.

I think there's something about DirectX-9 that's harder on the ROPs at least on the 79xx series.

That's what makes MechWarrior Online such a good load test, since its Cryengine 3 + DirectX 9.

Only thing you have to do to reproduce is to make sure you are not CPU or Shader bottlenecked.

This is also why I think AMD/ATi dropped the ball on not doing the refresh.

AMD/ATi was well aware that the achillies heel of the 7xxx series was the Memory controller and ROPs.
The 7790 demonstrates clearly what they could have done with a refresh.
My 7970 chip would probably clock to 1150-1170+ 100% stably instead of only about 1075 if it had the ROPs and Integrated Memory Controller like the 7790 instead of what it has now.

Their 7xxx series would also all be able to use 6000 MT/s GDDR5 100% stably without ASIC binning, allowing even more efficient actual GPU utilization per clock speed.