The GTX 780, 770, 760 ti Thread *First review leaked $700+?*

[BFG10K]

680 can be flashed to 770?

http://www.techpowerup.com/183936/geforce-gtx-680-can-be-flashed-to-gtx-770.html

 

[3DVagabond]

It's a refresh, not a rebrand...

Or, It's a rebrand, not a refresh?

 

[Jaydip]

It seems that NV could have made GPU boost 2.0 available earlier for the previous Kepler adopters.

 

[tential]

HD7970 launched 1.5 years ago. When I referenced price stagnation, I mentioned relative to prices 1 year ago, not 1.5 years ago. HD7970 Ghz launched at $499 but in retail it was going for $469 or so. HD7950s dropped to low $300s around that time. Compared to the first 3.5 months when HD7970 launched, its prices were high but that was before April 2012. Once GTX680 launched in March 2012, in about 1 month the HD7970 fell $70-80 in 1 shot and many were going for $450-470. Overall if you look at AMD and NV prices for the last 11-12 months, they have barely dropped. That is to say the opportunity cost of waiting 11-12 months for another $20-60 from May 2012 to May 2013 was not worth it. At this point if someone didn't buy 28nm tech last year, they should probably skip this round entirely or wait until 28nm clearance prices once 20nm tech launches. I do not understand why anyone would pay 2012 prices in 2013 for 1 year old 28nm tech. The game bundles are hiding how overpriced 28nm cards are now. Even last year there were deals on GTX670s for $320-330 and HD7970 for $300-330.



Titan and GTX780 do not compete with HD7870/7950/7970/7970GE/GTX670/680. I am not even sure why you bring that up since those cards can be priced 2-2.5x more for a 35% increase since they target top 1% of PC gamers who do not care about value it appears.

Why are the majority of $500 and below cards cards still priced near their 11-12 months levels more or less? People keep talking about lack of competition from AMD but that has nothing to do with cards in the sub-$500 range since 28nm tech in general should start to get cheaper as we get closer to 20nm and 28nm tech is no longer the hot new thing. Tech should fall in price over time from both AMD and NV. Why would someone pay $360 for a reference GTX670 and $390 for a reference HD7970 in May 2013? In May/June 2012, those cards were going for very similar prices. Some possible explanations are that AMD/NV can price the cards at these levels since the majority of PC gamers either do not follow GPU cycles / node technology curve or they do not know how to time GPU purchases/upgrades properly or they do not look at historical pricing of GPUs as a reference.

For example, even before HD4890 launched, NV refreshed GTX280 $499 with GTX285 at $349. There was no HD4890 even close on the horizon at that point. NV passed on the manufacturing node savings to us It seems with this generation AMD and NV figured out that PC gamers are OK to pay 1 year old prices for 1 year old tech. Even without a half node shrink, 28nm tech is cheaper to manufacture now than 12 months ago. We should be getting price drops on everything below $500 level. GTX670 level needs to be at $299 at most and GTX680 at $399.



I agree with a lot of your points. Don't you think though that 28nm manufacturing is cheaper now? Yields surely have improved and 28nm wafer prices are likely lower than 12 months ago. It should cost a lot less to manufacture a 294-365mm2 28nm chip today than around May 2012. Where are those cost savings? AMD and NV are just propping up their gross margins instead of passing those savings to us. They are now doing what Intel is doing with CPU chips by keeping prices nearly steady for almost the entire 2-year generation until the next major architecture arrives. This is not at all how the GPU industry has worked in the last 15 years. I saw this scenario play out with GTX570/580 prices before HD7970 launched and took a mental note. Now both AMD and NV are doing the same thing and keeping prices steady.

HD6950 unlocked was $230-250 around February 2010 and now GTX660Ti is going for $205 when you catch a great sale. That means in nearly 3.25 years, the performance increase is barely 25-30% at a similar price level for mid-range cards. If you want a real upgrade from HD6950 @ 6970 speeds, you would need to get an HD7950 and clock that to 1100mhz+. That card costs $290. That is horrendous since it's been 3.25 years since HD6950 was going for $230. On top of this it seems AMD and NV are both eager to raise prices and create new $700-1000 GPU levels for flagships. The current state of the GPU industry is the worst I have ever seen.

I like what you said with the Titan GPU. I seriously see it posted all the time on here that AMD isn't competing at this level which (insert ridiculous comment here). Titan is irrelevant in the scheme of things. Like you said, only the top gamers buy them. I'd go to say only, .01% of gamers purchase a card like Titan. I barely read any Titan news because it's irrelevant to me. Terrible Price to Performance like you said.

IMO, biggest reason prices don't change is because of small competition. If NV doesn't drop prices, AMD doesn't have to and vice versa. First one to drop prices just hurts both companies. It's a little bit of game theory, coupled with Keynesian Economics about sticky prices.

It looks like to me GPU prices are being pushed upwards. Truth is gaming segment is small. It seems to me that Nvidia did their research. People who are 300+ on a graphics card for video games, like video games and graphics A LOT. So NV has done the research and realized "Hey, if we up the price by 15%, they will STILL BUY THIS". If we don't the price people still buy it. IMO, they're just finally responding to what market data is showing in that gamers will pay for performance even if the cost isn't worth it, and they'll continually quote cards like Titan, GTX 690, etc. even though 99.9% of people will never own such a card.

I think we'll see a slight change though when new consoles come out. Right now console gaming has held the whole gaming industry back. We've never been on this long of a console cycle before, so I guess we're all in new waters.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

ftfy

I'll be surprised if it's $399. I'm guessing it will be $450, allowing GTX780 to be an absurd $649.

I don't understand what you mean GHz was faster than the stock 7970, I can't imagine GK104 with a 770 label is any faster than GK104 with a 680 label, clock for clock that is.

Unless this is an actual refresh, where they've tweaked the uarch however trivial, if they did anything at all I'd call it a refresh, otherwise it's just a rebrand.

$450 for a x70 would smell like ****. Not only did they price hike mid-range 100% at the top, they also brought up the x70 series ~$50 on top of that price hike. Nvidia's greed is showing already, best not provoke the mob.

 

[Black Octagon]

Or, It's a rebrand, not a refresh?

How so? As I read it, we're talking about the same (Kepler) architecture as the GTX600 series with tweaked specs. I.e., a refresh.

The AMD '8000' series for OEMs was the same (GCN) architecture as the HD7000 series with effectively identical specs. I.e., a rebrand (or, as Ryan calls it, a 'rebadging')

 

[Black Octagon]

Why are the majority of $500 and below cards cards still priced near their 11-12 months levels more or less? People keep talking about lack of competition from AMD but that has nothing to do with cards in the sub-$500 range since 28nm tech in general should start to get cheaper as we get closer to 20nm and 28nm tech is no longer the hot new thing. Tech should fall in price over time from both AMD and NV....Some possible explanations are that AMD/NV can price the cards at these levels since the majority of PC gamers either do not follow GPU cycles / node technology curve or they do not know how to time GPU purchases/upgrades properly or they do not look at historical pricing of GPUs as a reference...It seems with this generation AMD and NV figured out that PC gamers are OK to pay 1 year old prices for 1 year old tech. Even without a half node shrink, 28nm tech is cheaper to manufacture now than 12 months ago.

Maybe they figured it out quite consciously, à la 2006-2008...

 

[3DVagabond]

How so? As I read it, we're talking about the same (Kepler) architecture as the GTX600 series with tweaked specs. I.e., a refresh.

The AMD '8000' series for OEMs was the same (GCN) architecture as the HD7000 series with effectively identical specs. I.e., a rebrand (or, as Ryan calls it, a 'rebadging')

There are 680's with lots of different clocks. This will be another one.

 

[wand3r3r]

Apparently the 770 will still lose to the 7970GHz, if true means it really is a straight 680 rebadge with a 5% clock boost.

NVIDIA_DEV.1180 = “NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680″ ->
NVIDIA_DEV.1180 = “NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770″

The upcoming GTX 770 is a GTX 680 in disguise. NVIDIA has gently revised the GK104 architecture, mostly with process improvements

So they have "gently" tweaked the 680. If there isn't more clock for clock performance I'd call it a rebrand. The 760 ti appears to be the same as the 670 and according to what I've seen it is truly a rebrand.

Refresh / rebrand aside I still am curious if they will bring anything to the table $/performance wise and how much.

 

[hawtdawg]

How so? As I read it, we're talking about the same (Kepler) architecture as the GTX600 series with tweaked specs. I.e., a refresh.

The AMD '8000' series for OEMs was the same (GCN) architecture as the HD7000 series with effectively identical specs. I.e., a rebrand (or, as Ryan calls it, a 'rebadging')

AMD only did that due to OEM demand. They have no plans to sell them as retail cards.

 

[willomz]

Apparently the 770 will still lose to the 7970GHz, if true means it really is a straight 680 rebadge with a 5% clock boost.

Well AMD are always going to say that aren't they?

They've obviously chosen some pretty funky settings because even a regular 670 beats a 7970GE in Bioshock and Crysis 3, let alone a 680 with extra clock speed.

And obviously AMD will always win Dirt: Showdown with the special lighting mode on.

 

[wand3r3r]

Well AMD are always going to say that aren't they?

They've obviously chosen some pretty funky settings because even a regular 670 beats a 7970GE in Bioshock and Crysis 3, let alone a 680 with extra clock speed.

And obviously AMD will always win Dirt: Showdown with the special lighting mode on.

What's your point? Picking a couple games doesn't say much. Certain engines are optimized for certain architectures. The average matters most unless you actually truly only play 1-2 games.

 

[willomz]

What's your point? Picking a couple games doesn't say much. Certain engines are optimized for certain architectures. The average matters most unless you actually truly only play 1-2 games.

It was AMD that picked the games not me, 3 out of 7 games is likely to change the average somewhat.

 

[wand3r3r]

The GTX 780 ends up significantly faster than the 680 due to its new GK110 chip, while the 770 should end up five to seven percent more expensive than current GTX 680. We expect to see first of these cards in the second half of June, but we expect to see announcements around Computex, in case Nvidia gives them a PR blessing.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/31374-overclocked-gtx-760-and-770-in-the-works

I'm not sure if they are saying OCed cards are coming then? Initially they had rumored the 780 first, followed by 770, then 760 etc. a few weeks apart.

The other "gem" from the article, the 770 is supposedly going to cost 5-7% more than the 680? That's how much faster it's rumored to be. wtf

 

[willomz]

The GTX 780 ends up significantly faster than the 680 due to its new GK110 chip

the 780 card based on the Titan GK110 core ends up just slightly faster than 680.

They directly contradict themselves in this article, I don't think they have a clue..

 

[3DVagabond]

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/31374-overclocked-gtx-760-and-770-in-the-works

I'm not sure if they are saying OCed cards are coming then? Initially they had rumored the 780 first, followed by 770, then 760 etc. a few weeks apart.

The other "gem" from the article, the 770 is supposedly going to cost 5-7% more than the 680? That's how much faster it's rumored to be. wtf

Likely a typo.

 

[tviceman]

Techpower is saying the 770 mod is a user made modded bios, and not representative of the gtx770. http://www.techpowerup.com/183936/geforce-gtx-680-can-be-flashed-to-gtx-770.html

 

[Silverforce11]

I seriously hope some of the die hard NV fans really start to allow themselves to see the (ill)logic here: they are being raped and are defending the company raping them.

We are so far into this gen, getting similar perf (dont tell me 5-10% perf even matters when its within reach of mild OCs!) for similar price is utter rubbish. Demand more.

 

[f1sherman]

I seriously hope some of the die hard NV fans really start to allow themselves to see the (ill)logic here: they are being raped and are defending the company raping them.

We are so far into this gen, getting similar perf (dont tell me 5-10% perf even matters when its within reach of mild OCs!) for similar price is utter rubbish. Demand more.

Surely you mean cheaper.

Anyway where do I sign?
Or you mean vote with your wallet, ie. don't buy!

Bummer about 7000 Mbps - it sounded a bit too good to begin with.

 

[Silverforce11]

Demand more as in more value for consumers. Voting with your wallet is the best way, but at least not defend their actions on tech forums with weak justifications. It's simply NV ripping consumers off badly, for another gen going forward. Lose for consumers since its not going to pressure AMD to NOT be so greedy when they launch their stack. High prices for everyone is a fail.

 

[f1sherman]

but I did ask for moar!

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/532663/what-39-s-going-on-with-nvidia-and-pc-gaming-/

i'm keeping it real though

 

[Rvenger]

I seriously hope some of the die hard NV fans really start to allow themselves to see the (ill)logic here: they are being raped and are defending the company raping them.

If people speak up then they can make changes for the better! Nvidia used to be my choice company for GPUs. They are not the same thriving customer oriented company they once were. Riva TNT2 32mb and GF4 Ti4200 FTW.

 

[tviceman]

Bummer about 7000 Mbps - it sounded a bit too good to begin with.

Agreed. I actually believed it for a second, as IMO that's the only way to get a real speed increase out of GK104.

 

[Smartazz]

Apparently the 770 will still lose to the 7970GHz, if true means it really is a straight 680 rebadge with a 5% clock boost.



So they have "gently" tweaked the 680. If there isn't more clock for clock performance I'd call it a rebrand. The 760 ti appears to be the same as the 670 and according to what I've seen it is truly a rebrand.

Refresh / rebrand aside I still am curious if they will bring anything to the table $/performance wise and how much.

I like how AMD calls the 770 a refresh of the 680. Then what is the 7970GHz edition?

 

[f1sherman]

Agreed. I actually believed it for a second, as IMO that's the only way to get a real speed increase out of GK104.

slightly OC-ed 680 with better thermals/power and that fancy Titan cooler for $400 would be aight... I guess

color me surprised that AMD found Ghz Edition only 5% faster.
come to think of it - I doubt that slide is authentic.