The Great Flood and Noah's Ark

[TheVrolok]

Can we get DOCTOR Kent Hovind in the house?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik
Where did all the water come from and where did it go? I hope you're not going to launch into the global water-shell theory

From the biblical account, it says that water came up from underground ("fountains of the deep") and from water that was above the earth. As to where it went, I think the sea level was far lower than it is now.

Okay, so there should be MASSIVE caverns somewhere in the outter crust big enough to hold enough water to cover the entire earth 20,000 feet deep? Why haven't these collapsed after being empty for 5,000 years? Why haven't we found it while mapping the surface and the core of the planet?

I don't have all the answers, but it's possible that there are massive caverns underground and underwater. Water could have receded partly back into sources that are now underwater. We know very little about the depths of the ocean, let alone the subterranean depths of the crust and further down. We don't have a very good knowledge of the interior of the earth.

[/quote]
Sea level difference? How would you account for archeological finds of coastal towns in Egypt exactly along the existing coast? Wouldn't there be evidence of old coast lines and massive coastal cities now under water? Or are you going to tell me that all the "evidence" was conveniently destroyed in the flood?[/quote]

How old are the coastal towns? Older than 6,000 years? If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.
If the pressure was 2,700 psi, and you have 5,000 years of time passing, than yes, most of the evidence would be gone or very hard to find. Mankind was not spread over the face of the earth at that time, but concentrated in the Africa/Middle East area. Given how vast the oceans are, even well preserved buildings would be very difficult to find. Even given a specific area, it's very difficult to find something even the size of a city.

What about this water "above the earth"? Obviously there wasn't just some massive pool in the sky, it would have to be a much more dense atmosphere with a thick fog layer for that much water to just hang up there in the sky, and it would have to be permanent, resulting in lost sunlight and an incredible increase in atmospheric pressure. How would humans be able to breathe with that much pressure? If creatures and humans WERE adapted to that much atmospheric pressure, how could they possibly breathe AFTER the flood when the atmosphere were significantly less dense?

This is just a hypothesis of mine, but maybe the surface gravity of the earth, by whatever mechanism, was less at the time before the flood, and the density of the atmosphere was lower. There was an article that I read somewhere that proposed that indeed it was (think it had something to do with a change in the core of the earth). Atmospheric pressure could have been low enough for people and animals to exist just fine.

Again, I'm not saying I know all the details (obviously I don't) but no one knows everything. Scientific theories are always filled with holes and gaps in understanding, and that does not instantly make them untrue. Not that I am stating that what I believe is science, but it is my faith and I do hold fast to it.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I think that only the area around Iraq/ turkey got flooded and not the world. I do believe in the story, and they did say they may have found the ark, but the area it is in is glaciers and is too dangerous to go to, which the story did say happened.( I think it did say it landed on a mountain)

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Can we get DOCTOR Kent Hovind in the house?

He's already in the big house.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
I think that only the area around Iraq/ turkey got flooded and not the world.

That's what I said in my post. There was a History Channel thing on it that the Black Sea was created from a great flood.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Vic
...

Originally posted by: grohl
At some point in your lives, learn how to embrace faith. You will be fulfilled and strengthened because of it.

Faith ceases to be faith when it crosses from a belief in the unknown to an insistence on a lie. At that point, you're no longer fulfilled and strengthened, but resting on a crutch.

?A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.? - Friedrich Nietzsche

This is true. However, without faith, one cannot prove anything either. It's just that faith doesn't prove anything by itself.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It did happen. Though apparently the door of the ark was so huge nobody could even close it. God actually did. He was in control of the whole thing, I would guess he made the water evaporate much faster then it would have naturally, but a lot of it was left behind.

The "ice age" is probably actually the result of the flood. The continents moving were probably a result of the flood. (some say that at one point all continents were combined and there is certain evidence of this).

It is also even possible that dinosaurs were put on the ark. No, there was no giant T rex on there, but maybe eggs for some. Some also say the flood is what actually wiped dinosaurs. What happened in the past, we can only guess based on small evidence, but lot of it is that, a guess. No matter how advance science is, we can't tell for sure, what something happened in the past.

Keep in mind, this ship was HUGE, and took many years to build, like, 100's I believe (have not read the story in a long time, and I don't even know if it mentions years). If you consider how the pyramids were built by hand, it really puts into perspective that the ark is not that far off from being realistic for man to build at the time. God was really in total control though; how do you put 2 of every species in a boat, and stop them from eating each other for 40 days? It's really an incredible accomplishment.

I can totally picture mythbusters trying to get this going.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Crono
If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.

While I do believe the bible, I do not believe this statement. The bible describes molding the earth in 6 days, but as to when it was created:

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The "beginning" is undefined. The earth could be billions of years old.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono
If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.

While I do believe the bible, I do not believe this statement. The bible describes molding the earth in 6 days, but as to when it was created:

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The "beginning" is undefined. The earth could be billions of years old.

Then everything else happened in the 7 days after that

Also, the Earth IS several billions of years old. Not "could"

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono
If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.

While I do believe the bible, I do not believe this statement. The bible describes molding the earth in 6 days, but as to when it was created:

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The "beginning" is undefined. The earth could be billions of years old.

Then everything else happened in the 7 days after that

Also, the Earth IS several billions of years old. Not "could"

I meant "could" in relation to understanding what the bible says. I think the earth is billions of years old myself.

 

[Freshgeardude]

the word Day as described in the bible is not said to be a 24 hour period. a day in the bible could mean a billion years each, or different amount of time per day.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Vic
This is true. However, without faith, one cannot prove anything either. It's just that faith doesn't prove anything by itself.

Well that's something that ventures into philosophy, if you're talking about what I think you are - faith that your eyes are relaying you information about what's really around you, faith that your instrumentation is working the way it should, faith in the equations generated by scientists in the past, etc etc.

But yes, faith by itself is useless.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono
If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.

While I do believe the bible, I do not believe this statement. The bible describes molding the earth in 6 days, but as to when it was created:

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The "beginning" is undefined. The earth could be billions of years old.

Then everything else happened in the 7 days after that

Also, the Earth IS several billions of years old. Not "could"

I meant "could" in relation to understanding what the bible says. I think the earth is billions of years old myself.

But then the timeline of the bible isn't billions of years.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: Vic


Faith ceases to be faith when it crosses from a belief in the unknown to an insistence on a lie. At that point, you're no longer fulfilled and strengthened, but resting on a crutch.

Nice... I'm tempted to put that in my sig, but my rig's occupying that space.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
the word Day as described in the bible is not said to be a 24 hour period. a day in the bible could mean a billion years each, or different amount of time per day.

This is true as well.

The word "day" in hebrew is an undefined amount of time when using the word itself. It is up to interpretation (at this point - as we don't know the exact amount of time because it is not written) as to how long the "days" were.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
It did happen. Though apparently the door of the ark was so huge nobody could even close it. God actually did. He was in control of the whole thing, I would guess he made the water evaporate much faster then it would have naturally, but a lot of it was left behind.

Evaporated water doesn't just disappear like magic. It has to go somewhere. It would have to remain in the atmosphere and THAT MUCH WATER would create massively dense global cloud cover miles and miles and miles thick. Also, how do you know how big the door was? Without pointing to silly words on a page and saying "because it says so" either. If I belived that there was an old woman with a billion kids who lived in a shoe the size of a 3 story house and pointed to a picture in a book using that as my reasoning, you'd laugh at me too. Come on, get real.

The "ice age" is probably actually the result of the flood. The continents moving were probably a result of the flood. (some say that at one point all continents were combined and there is certain evidence of this).

Causation != correlation. Two possible events linked by nothing more than conjecture. For all we know the continents splitting off of a Eutopia could have happened over millions of years with normal current-day tectonic plate movement.

It is also even possible that dinosaurs were put on the ark. No, there was no giant T rex on there, but maybe eggs for some.

The Bible says that god brought the animals to Noah. Eggs can't move themselves.

Some also say the flood is what actually wiped dinosaurs.

They would be stupid, contradicting themselves by believing that not all animals made it onto the Ark, contradicting the book they're trying to convince themselves is true.

What happened in the past, we can only guess based on small evidence, but lot of it is that, a guess. No matter how advance science is, we can't tell for sure, what something happened in the past.

Scientific evidence is not a guess. Theory is based on evidence, not words on a page written thousands of years ago by human hands.

Keep in mind, this ship was HUGE, and took many years to build, like, 100's I believe (have not read the story in a long time, and I don't even know if it mentions years). If you consider how the pyramids were built by hand, it really puts into perspective that the ark is not that far off from being realistic for man to build at the time. God was really in total control though; how do you put 2 of every species in a boat, and stop them from eating each other for 40 days? It's really an incredible accomplishment.

Hundreds of years? Made out of wood and hundreds of years? It takes a LOT of pressure and cold temperature to preserve wood that long, even treated wood -to say nothing of wood painted with magic goo. If the whole atmospheric-water thing is true, the temperature and humidity on the surface would have eaten away at the Ark long before it was half finished.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

But then the timeline of the bible isn't billions of years.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
the word Day as described in the bible is not said to be a 24 hour period. a day in the bible could mean a billion years each, or different amount of time per day.

I was gonna preempt this argument, but I decided not to.

Fine. The word "day" doesn't have its defined meaning. Then why use the word day? They had the concept of years. So and So lived 800 years. Why not use that term then? Instead, they used the word day, which even in that time would mean "Period in which the sun sets and rises in abouta 24 hours period" and said, "Gee, lets make the word "day" mean something completely different"

And with that, if we can arbitrarily change the definition of words in the bible to make arguments, whats the limit to this?

Wine = Juice
Flood= A great mass of ketchup
Manna= Girl Scout Thin Mints

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono
If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.

While I do believe the bible, I do not believe this statement. The bible describes molding the earth in 6 days, but as to when it was created:

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The "beginning" is undefined. The earth could be billions of years old.

Don't forget the "long-day theory" backed up by statements later in the Bible that a day to God is like a thousand years on earth. Long-day theory is that God took 6,000 years just to mold the earth and create the different levels of life, then letting Adam roam around in it for another thousand years alone before creating Eve.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
It did happen. Though apparently the door of the ark was so huge nobody could even close it. God actually did. He was in control of the whole thing, I would guess he made the water evaporate much faster then it would have naturally, but a lot of it was left behind.

The "ice age" is probably actually the result of the flood. The continents moving were probably a result of the flood. (some say that at one point all continents were combined and there is certain evidence of this).

Wrong time line, ice ages have to do with the Milankovitch cycle http://geography.about.com/od/...rth/a/milankovitch.htm

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Then why use the word day?

Maybe the writers didn't know how long they were?

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono
If you believe the bible at all, then the earth is not much older than 6,000 years.

While I do believe the bible, I do not believe this statement. The bible describes molding the earth in 6 days, but as to when it was created:

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The "beginning" is undefined. The earth could be billions of years old.

Don't forget the "long-day theory" backed up by statements later in the Bible that a day to God is like a thousand years on earth. Long-day theory is that God took 6,000 years just to mold the earth and create the different levels of life, then letting Adam roam around in it for another thousand years alone before creating Eve.

While this is true, the word "day" isn't always simply defined as 1,000 years.

Personally, I have no idea how long the "days" were. I wouldn't argue you one way or another even if you thought they were literal 24 hour periods, the length of the days are not straight out defined in the bible.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
the word Day as described in the bible is not said to be a 24 hour period. a day in the bible could mean a billion years each, or different amount of time per day.

I was gonna preempt this argument, but I decided not to.

Fine. The word "day" doesn't have its defined meaning. Then why use the word day? They had the concept of years. So and So lived 800 years. Why not use that term then? Instead, they used the word day, which even in that time would mean "Period in which the sun sets and rises in abouta 24 hours period" and said, "Gee, lets make the word "day" mean something completely different"

And with that, if we can arbitrarily change the definition of words in the bible to make arguments, whats the limit to this?

Wine = Juice
Flood= A great mass of ketchup
Manna= Girl Scout Thin Mints

Hey rocket ranger, ever here the phrase 'in Shakespeare's day'? The dictionary definition of 'day' says (in addition to the 24 hour period you claim) "A period of time in history; an era: We studied the tactics used in Napoleon's day. The day of computer science is well upon us."

So, how about you not correct everyone on the definition of a word when you can't read a fricken dictionary, mkay?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Then why use the word day?

Maybe the writers didn't know how long they were?

How would a fiction writer not know the details of his book?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Can we get DOCTOR Kent Hovind in the house?

He's already in the big house.

Finally where he belongs.