The Great Flood and Noah's Ark

[Capt Caveman]

Did they bring enough food onto the Ark to feed all of these animals? For the majority of species, two animals isn't enough to repopulate a species.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: KLin
I suppose someone could do a lot of research and find a lot of evidence that suggest the event did take place.

Please be my guest.

Just as soon as you show your evidence that the event didn't take place.

While there's no obligation to prove a negative, in this case it is possible. Floods leave evidence. Scientists can trace every flood in every area based on sediment in soil layers. There was no great flood in mankinds history. Period.

The DNA records of animal species also prove that there was no bottleneck in mankinds history where the species were reduced to a single breeding pair and repopulated from there.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

s

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Crono
Yes, I believe in the story of Noah's ark, and a global flood that occurred around 5,000 years ago.
I know current science regarding the matter is to the contrary, but scientific findings always change the previously held views as time moves forward. A lot of the ideas that we hold true today were once thought as foolish, and many ideas that were believed to be true at one point by scientists (ether, anyone?) are now shown to be false.
Interpretation of data is highly dependent on the core beliefs and opinions of those doing the interpreting.

If 20,000 feet of water or more covered the earth at one time, what would the effects on the earth be, due to the massive pressure? What would happen after the water eventually receded? Would it freeze at the poles?

Interesting that one would decry science as it is ever changing and self improving, yet cling to stories written in the Bronze Age as undeniable truth.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem.

If science is ever changing, then that means many things are most definitely wrong right now, and that we will only discover in the future what is correct.

I hold to the absolute truth of the Bible. Not that it is a scientific document, but a self disclosure of God, and a moral guide. All that is contained in the Bible, I hold to be true.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem does not apply, because I am not making mention of how old the Bible is. My argument is not that the Bible is old, and therefore truer, I am saying that science is always changing and therefore you cannot state with certainty that we won't find evidence that a global flood did indeed take place.

It is a true pity you cannot detect the irony of your own position.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Crono
Yes, I believe in the story of Noah's ark, and a global flood that occurred around 5,000 years ago.
I know current science regarding the matter is to the contrary, but scientific findings always change the previously held views as time moves forward. A lot of the ideas that we hold true today were once thought as foolish, and many ideas that were believed to be true at one point by scientists (ether, anyone?) are now shown to be false.
Interpretation of data is highly dependent on the core beliefs and opinions of those doing the interpreting.

If 20,000 feet of water or more covered the earth at one time, what would the effects on the earth be, due to the massive pressure? What would happen after the water eventually receded? Would it freeze at the poles?

Where did all the water come from and where did it go? I hope you're not going to launch into the global water-shell theory

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...noahs-ark.html#fitting

I don't agree with their assessment. I think rapid mutation and speciation could have occurred after the flood, allowing for far a fewer number of species and animals necessary to repopulate the earth.
Their assumption is that mutations leading to different species that we have today would take on the order of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: spaceman
noahs ark was built by ranger boats because they still build em one at a time.
ranger boats.

ranger boats.

oh

 

[TehMac]

If I recall, there was a movie wherein scientists were uncovering a lot of evidence of a massive flood in the Egypt-Mesopotamian area, but considering this movie also believed that the 'Atlanteans' got their cultural inspiration from the moon, supposedly there's a sphinx on the moon, I'm not sure the movie can be taken for face value.

 

[grohl]

At some point in your lives, learn how to embrace faith. You will be fulfilled and strengthened because of it.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Nik
Where did all the water come from and where did it go? I hope you're not going to launch into the global water-shell theory

From the biblical account, it says that water came up from underground ("fountains of the deep") and from water that was above the earth. As to where it went, I think the sea level was far lower than it is now.

 

[EGGO]

[edit]

 

[EGGO]

Originally posted by: Crono
Yes, I believe in the story of Noah's ark, and a global flood that occurred around 5,000 years ago.
I know current science regarding the matter is to the contrary, but scientific findings always change the previously held views as time moves forward. A lot of the ideas that we hold true today were once thought as foolish, and many ideas that were believed to be true at one point by scientists (ether, anyone?) are now shown to be false.
Interpretation of data is highly dependent on the core beliefs and opinions of those doing the interpreting.

If 20,000 feet of water or more covered the earth at one time, what would the effects on the earth be, due to the massive pressure? What would happen after the water eventually receded? Would it freeze at the poles?

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik
Where did all the water come from and where did it go? I hope you're not going to launch into the global water-shell theory

From the biblical account, it says that water came up from underground ("fountains of the deep") and from water that was above the earth. As to where it went, I think the sea level was far lower than it is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...15uki8&feature=related Your answer.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski
Voted No on both. However, it might have some truth to it, but certainly nohing like how the Bible describes it. Like already mentioned, probably a Local event, smaller boat, fewer animals, and occuring far before any Known history. I suspect it's more a work of Fiction for teaching a Lesson rather than an actual Legend of some Event.

This this and this. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that the logistics of this boat are impossible anyways.

No, the logistics of the boat are entirely possible, and it would be very stable in water. The volume of the boat would even allow enough room for all the animals and food that they would need.

lo-fucking-l

How exactly do you feed carnivores both during and after the flood?

 

[zerocool84]

I remember watching the History Channel and they had evidence that a great flood did occur around the time that the Noah story was supposed to happen and from what I remember, the flood wasn't world wide but the flood is what formed the Black Sea.

Oh and this thread is religious cus the only reason why anyone would believe the Noah story would be if they believed the Bible as truth.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik
Where did all the water come from and where did it go? I hope you're not going to launch into the global water-shell theory

From the biblical account, it says that water came up from underground ("fountains of the deep") and from water that was above the earth. As to where it went, I think the sea level was far lower than it is now.

Okay, so there should be MASSIVE caverns somewhere in the outter crust big enough to hold enough water to cover the entire earth 20,000 feet deep? Why haven't these collapsed after being empty for 5,000 years? Why haven't we found it while mapping the surface and the core of the planet?

Sea level difference? How would you account for archeological finds of coastal towns in Egypt exactly along the existing coast? Wouldn't there be evidence of old coast lines and massive coastal cities now under water? Or are you going to tell me that all the "evidence" was conveniently destroyed in the flood?

What about this water "above the earth"? Obviously there wasn't just some massive pool in the sky, it would have to be a much more dense atmosphere with a thick fog layer for that much water to just hang up there in the sky, and it would have to be permanent, resulting in lost sunlight and an incredible increase in atmospheric pressure. How would humans be able to breathe with that much pressure? If creatures and humans WERE adapted to that much atmospheric pressure, how could they possibly breathe AFTER the flood when the atmosphere were significantly less dense?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski
Voted No on both. However, it might have some truth to it, but certainly nohing like how the Bible describes it. Like already mentioned, probably a Local event, smaller boat, fewer animals, and occuring far before any Known history. I suspect it's more a work of Fiction for teaching a Lesson rather than an actual Legend of some Event.

This this and this. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that the logistics of this boat are impossible anyways.

No, the logistics of the boat are entirely possible, and it would be very stable in water. The volume of the boat would even allow enough room for all the animals and food that they would need.

lo-fucking-l

How exactly do you feed carnivores both during and after the flood?

No idea. I'm not claiming I have every answer. In any field of study, there are going to be more questions than answers, and the truth is I don't know the answer to that particular question. It's possible that even carnivorous animals can survive for a time on vegetation or even mushrooms. Hypercarnivorism may not have been a feature of certain animals until after the flood.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski
Voted No on both. However, it might have some truth to it, but certainly nohing like how the Bible describes it. Like already mentioned, probably a Local event, smaller boat, fewer animals, and occuring far before any Known history. I suspect it's more a work of Fiction for teaching a Lesson rather than an actual Legend of some Event.

This this and this. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that the logistics of this boat are impossible anyways.

LOL
No, the logistics of the boat are entirely possible, and it would be very stable in water. The volume of the boat would even allow enough room for all the animals and food that they would need.

lo-fucking-l

How exactly do you feed carnivores both during and after the flood?

No idea. I'm not claiming I have every answer. In any field of study, there are going to be more questions than answers, and the truth is I don't know the answer to that particular question. It's possible that even carnivorous animals can survive for a time on vegetation or even mushrooms. Hypercarnivorism may not have been a feature of certain animals until after the flood.

:laugh: Nice answer to keep the shens of Noah's Ark going!

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: EGGO

....

Skipping to the punchline...

This much water hitting the ground in the timeframe specified leads to a water pressure of about 2,700 psi being applied to the entire Earth's surface every second, for 40 days and 40 nights. To put this in perspective, fire hoses typically operate at 800 psi. The atmosphere is about 14 psi, so this much water is 189 atmospheres worth of pressure.

Every second, of every day, for 40 days.

There was a site I had that talked into specifics about the biology, geology, and physics over it. Discovery Channel also did a good show.

Hot damn, we should probably have come across a layer of diamond with that much pressure.

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Did they bring enough food onto the Ark to feed all of these animals? For the majority of species, two animals isn't enough to repopulate a species.

The Talkorigins link mentions something like this, too - inbreeding would have been a pretty big problem. One male and one female per species, that's not exactly a diverse breeding pool.

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
http://www.talkorigins.org/faq...noahs-ark.html#fitting

I don't agree with their assessment. I think rapid mutation and speciation could have occurred after the flood, allowing for far a fewer number of species and animals necessary to repopulate the earth.
Their assumption is that mutations leading to different species that we have today would take on the order of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years.

So...evolution then. Interesting.
It would have needed to be quite unnatural, too. Observation today says that a lone breeding pair of many types of animals in existence now would not provide sufficient genetic diversity to prevent eventual sterility and extinction of that particular family line. Mutations like you describe do not occur rapidly enough to overcome this cumulative degradation.

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik
Where did all the water come from and where did it go? I hope you're not going to launch into the global water-shell theory

From the biblical account, it says that water came up from underground ("fountains of the deep") and from water that was above the earth. As to where it went, I think the sea level was far lower than it is now.

Above Earth? So there's just some giant pool of water existing in the vacuum of space which we just haven't seen?


Also relevant - Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood?

The tsunami of 2004 was caused by an earthquake. The article suggests a massive object hit the Indian Ocean, causing "...a series of 600-foot-high tsunamis crashing against the world?s coastlines and injected plumes of superheated water vapor and aerosol particulates into the atmosphere."

Effects of that 2004 earthquake's tsunamis were detected on the east coast of the US, and as I recall, they circled the planet more than once before being undetectable.
Imagine being in the ancient world and seeing 1) A huge meteor streaking past, and/or 2) the tsunami from a distance. Once the tale is told and embellished by enough horrified survivors at the outer extents of the tsunami's reach, the flood will have endured for 40 days and 40 nights, with water high enough to cover mountains.
Bear in mind too, this isn't just a simple once-and-done wave. It would be a tower of water that would just keep coming, perhaps for several minutes.

And waves like that would surely have been enough to cause problems at coastlines everywhere in the world.

If you're an ancient culture, without knowledge of asteroids or fluid dynamics on a large scale, to what do you attribute such a thing? Clearly it's the work of some deity that's upset.

Or maybe it's just a big rock hitting another big rock that's covered with water, causing some ripples, ripples which seem significant to the inhabitants of that big rock.



Then there are the moral implications - God can evidently commit mass genocide whenever he pleases, and he also doesn't seem to assign much value to animal life. 99.9999999.....% of all land life was wiped out, not to mention the various forms of aquatic life which require specific levels of salinity and temperature in order to survive. They all died (except the breeding pairs) just so he could prove a point.

Shall our justice system be modified to reflect that methodology? No rehab, no second chances, just death of you and your family, plus destruction of your possessions.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Depends. What do you define a great flood? I'm not going to doubt the fact that there might have been a huge localized flood that lasted for over a month. What I AM going to doubt is that the entire world was flooded causing the mass extinction of everyone but a single family and a pair of every animal on earth who then somehow repopulated the world with a significant amount of incest.

This part happened no matter how the story is told.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
No, like most things in the Bible the authors took something real (Black Sea flood) and stretched it into a global tale. I'm sure there were individuals who tried to save animals and whatever, but they didn't build a giant boat and single-handedly save the world's biodiversity.

This is a correct answer.

Originally posted by: grohl
At some point in your lives, learn how to embrace faith. You will be fulfilled and strengthened because of it.

Faith ceases to be faith when it crosses from a belief in the unknown to an insistence on a lie. At that point, you're no longer fulfilled and strengthened, but resting on a crutch.

 

[JC]

Did Noah remember to get two of every virus, bacteria, and germ too?

 

[irishScott]

I believe it's a possible interpretation of a large-scale natural disaster. Maybe an insane class 10 hurricane or something.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Vic
...

Originally posted by: grohl
At some point in your lives, learn how to embrace faith. You will be fulfilled and strengthened because of it.

Faith ceases to be faith when it crosses from a belief in the unknown to an insistence on a lie. At that point, you're no longer fulfilled and strengthened, but resting on a crutch.

?A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.? - Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: irishScott
I believe it's a possible interpretation of a large-scale natural disaster. Maybe an insane class 10 hurricane or something.

there had to be something, as just about every culture has a similar story about a huge flood. it's not like there was internet back or, or even the people traveling to see others. If 10 different groups of people on 10 different spots around the world who have never had any contact with the other 9 tel the same story, there has to be some truth to it.

 

[bsobel]

While the bible's version of Noah is one version of the story, similar stories exist in most civilizations. I personally believe the event was a meteor hit in the indian ocean (google for the massive on shore chevrons just now being put together with the event). The impact would have put a massive amount of water vapor into the atmosphere and does account for the 'raining for 40 days and 40 nights portion of the story'. That, the tsunami created, etc does account for most of the story.

I also believe this has happened before (almost extinction level events on average every 10k years or so, some science has it do 6k years or so). I don't believe humans got 'smarter' a few thousand years ago, I believe this is simply the longest interrupted run we've had at creating society.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFMPP43B1244M
http://sandrablakeslee.com/art...n_madagascar_nov06.php
http://mathildasweirdworldwebl...s.com/tag/noahs-flood/

I also believe alot of history is lost during these events. The Hoppi indians claim the earth has been 'renewed' 4 times now. Given impacts such as the above, super volcanoes, etc I see more reason to believe that than not.