The GQP is a clear and present danger

[pcgeek11]

If they're trying to overthrow the democratically elected government, I absolutely would support such action against them. It's kinda difficult to value freedom and democracy if you're willing to roll over to anyone willing to take it away.

I'm not discussing the assholes that were raiding Washington. I'm talking about the US South Eastern and Midwestern states as is the dude I first responded to.

 

[pcgeek11]

Key word. 'May'.

I can't be naive enough to think war might not happen. However, I never said we should declare war. I said split the cancerous states off.

I clearly said I expect the two new countries to trade with each other, split the military, etc... So I'm hoping for a negotiated spilt. Clearly. So get a clue.

But you asked about fighting a war, and I clearly said it might not be needed, that's not the intention, that's not how it should start, but it definitely may happen, can't be too naive to think it's not a possibility, and it is what it is. I'll be ready.

You suck at processing information.

I hope you end up in the confederacy, where you belong.

You are obsessed. Have you considered therapy?

 

[pcgeek11]

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

What are you implying?

That all of the conservative states are enemies of the United States? If so then you also need some therapy.

 

[pcgeek11]

This from the party that with alarming regularity and cult like chanting says this of their political rivals:
"LOCK EM UP!"
"GITMO!"
"EXECUTIONS!"

And showed up to a peaceful democratic transfer of power with nooses, weapons and physical restraints.

Yeah, no. The GQP has no moral standing with this. Zero.

How did you get from the conversation about splitting away the Southeastern and Midwestern States and turn it into a discussion about the GOP and Trump extremist?

 

[MrSquished]

You are obsessed. Have you considered therapy?

Your party has a cult leader that wants to overthrow democracy and a party basically figuring out how to go along with that, while at the same time chipping away at a myriad of other things that society needs to function well - from women's rights to climate change to general infrastructure and eventually any social program including medicare and SS. I think it's a problem. Yes it's a big focus of mine - how the world runs and how we can potentially fuck over hundreds of millions of people under an autocratic regime your party wants to institute. We aren't talking about trying to figure out what side to make with the roast beef for dinner - just the future of the most powerful Western democracy in the world with a population of over 300 million.

You have an issue with me worrying about insanely relevant and huge issues like this because you are a moron.

Have you considered not being stupid? Fuck no. Stupid people as fucking dumb as you can't help it.

 

[pcgeek11]

I'm not sure what people don't understand. The intent is to negotiate a peaceful split, with a trade agreement, distribution of military resources, border/visa requirements, etc...

The main reason war would happen is because the Confederacy/GQP are just very unreasonable and insane people. If a war starts it would be on them, but of course we'd have to be ready for it.

Keep backing up. The Confederacy no longer exists and your correlation between the Southeastern and Midwestern states and what ypu refer to as the GQP is insane.

 

[pcgeek11]

Your party has a cult leader that wants to overthrow democracy and a party basically figuring out how to go along with that, while at the same time chipping away at a myriad of other things that society needs to function well - from women's rights to climate change to general infrastructure and eventually any social program including medicare and SS. I think it's a problem. Yes it's a big focus of mine - how the world runs and how we can potentially fuck over hundreds of millions of people under an autocratic regime your party wants to institute. We aren't talking about trying to figure out what side to make with the roast beef for dinner - just the future of the most powerful Western democracy in the world with a population of over 300 million.

You have an issue with me worrying about insanely relevant and huge issues like this because you are a moron.

Have you considered not being stupid? Fuck no. Stupid people as fucking dumb as you can't help it.

I hope you enjoy your fantasy. Let us know when you are going to start this split and war. I want to watch.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think the same thoughts. It's the John Brown streak in my emotional dimension.

But what are you going to do about all those stand-up Blue voters in the urban areas, like Dallas, Houston -- even Montgomery, AL? Fulton County Georgia? Set up a massive airlift like the one we staged at Kabul airport?

The best I can do today is deliver the completed ballots for my Moms, my Bro and myself to the post office. The Newsom recall is a threat to the entire country.

I'm waiting to see what happens on the Capitol Mall on the 18th. I just hope the Capitol police and the National Guard have enough Gatling guns at the ready . . . .

That was an idea I had early in the last presidential term. Find a large canyon with steep walls. Set up the Gatling guns on the rim. Schedule a phony Rush Limbaugh rally. Then -- exterminate them all! Or -- get some mailing lists from The Daily Stormer and other sources you could hack. Make truckloads of Adolf Hitler Christmas cookies with an ingredient that's a real Nice-un. Send out the boxes on Xmas eve, and collect the corpses after New Years.

They would probably smell no worse on New Year's than they did the day before Christmas. Have you noticed the similarity between anti-masking, anti-vaxxing Trumpers and a modern Sci-Fi legend? The Walking Dead. Brains! Brains! I want to infect your brains!

Of course, for my homicidal thoughts, I can't ignore the Rule of Law. I just hope the Democrats are right to follow MLK's Creative Non-Violence under an assumption that the system works well enough part of the time . . . Now -- John Brown -- he didn' need any 2nd amendment rights. He was just going to raid a federal armory and steal the guns.

I liked his style . . . . Too bad his plan fell through, but then -- one could say it didn't after all.

 

[MrSquished]

Keep backing up. The Confederacy no longer exists and your correlation between the Southeastern and Midwestern states and what ypu refer to as the GQP is insane.

The Confederacy is just a cute nick name for what the new country would be, I mean I'm not gonna choose the name so it's a placeholder, but that country which would primarily consist of the old Confederacy, with some new additions. So it geographically makes sense. But also very important a large part of your party's cult leader's base still waves that flag, and loves monuments to Confederate figures. And your party's cult leader defends symbols of the Confederacy, so it's quite a valid nickname. So it makes perfect sense. Duh. But apparently that shit is too hard for stupidoes like you to figure out.

I find it amusing you think I'm insane when your party is the one that elected Trump, still worships him, and who is clearly a wanna be fascist that wants to overthrow democracy and his party is clearly gearing up to do exactly that in the very near future.

You are even dumber than thought previously.

 

[pcgeek11]

The Confederacy is just a cute nick name for what the new country would be, I mean I'm not gonna choose the name so it's a placeholder, but that country which would primarily consist of the old Confederacy, with some new additions. So it geographically makes sense. But also very important a large part of your party's cult leader's base still waves that flag, and loves monuments to Confederate figures. And your party's cult leader defends symbols of the Confederacy, so it's quite a valid nickname. So it makes perfect sense. Duh. But apparently that shit is too hard for stupidoes like you to figure out.

I find it amusing you think I'm insane when your party is the one that elected Trump, still worships him, and who is clearly a wanna be fascist that wants to overthrow democracy and his party is clearly gearing up to do exactly that in the very near future.

You are even dumber than thought previously.

Keep on being you.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I mean, when NASCAR banned the confederate flag, you knew it was really over.

 

[Jaskalas]

What are you implying?

That all of the conservative states are enemies of the United States? If so then you also need some therapy.

Only so far as Taliban are enemies of Afghanistan.

I never would have thought nor imagined this before Trump. But their range of complete devotion to tacit approval speaks louder than words. By action they have proven their character. Just as they did on Jan 6th and will no doubt do so again. By their proclaiming the election a fraud, they fight FOR the belief that our Democracy is dead. By their will they will try their damndest to make it so.

Yes, much of the following could be described as just stupidity borne of some earnest desire for something "better". But I would remind you - back in ancient times people's stupidities lead them to making human sacrifices to the gods. So you will excuse me if claiming earnest ignorance is no defense for posing an existential threat.

When someone says the election was fake, what they really say is that they mean to do us harm. Because they lost faith in a civil outcome. I would take them at their word and prepare to respond in kind.

 

[MrSquished]

Keep on being you.

What did I say that's false in any way? Zero.

Everything is easily proved. I mean super easily. Please tell me what I am misrepresenting.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[theeedude]

GOP is in danger itself. Texas is their Prop 187 moment.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm not discussing the assholes that were raiding Washington.

Well, maybe you should think about them: why they were there, who incited them, who every likely assisted them, and the fact that the GQP is hampering investigative efforts. If the events of Jan 6th hadn't happened, this thread very likely wouldn't exist.

 

[Amused]

GOP is in danger itself. Texas is their Prop 187 moment.

Prop 187 had wild popular support in CA (59-41). It failed in the courts.

Prop 187 continued to have popular support in CA long after it failed in the courts.

Texas was approved by the highest court in the land.

 

[pcgeek11]

Only so far as Taliban are enemies of Afghanistan.

I never would have thought nor imagined this before Trump. But their range of complete devotion to tacit approval speaks louder than words. By action they have proven their character. Just as they did on Jan 6th and will no doubt do so again. By their proclaiming the election a fraud, they fight FOR the belief that our Democracy is dead. By their will they will try their damndest to make it so.

Yes, much of the following could be described as just stupidity borne of some earnest desire for something "better". But I would remind you - back in ancient times people's stupidities lead them to making human sacrifices to the gods. So you will excuse me if claiming earnest ignorance is no defense for posing an existential threat.

When someone says the election was fake, what they really say is that they mean to do us harm. Because they lost faith in a civil outcome. I would take them at their word and prepare to respond in kind.

What did I say that's false in any way? Zero.

Everything is easily proved. I mean super easily. Please tell me what I am misrepresenting.

I won't hold my breath.

Well, maybe you should think about them: why they were there, who incited them, who every likely assisted them, and the fact that the GQP is hampering investigative efforts. If the events of Jan 6th hadn't happened, this thread very likely wouldn't exist.

So for the actions of a handful of degenerate retarded criminals you are willing to condemn the entire Southeastern and Midwestern states. And are willing go so far as to have bloodshed to boot them from the United States.

I agree the idiots of on the riot in DC need to pay for their actions as per the law and what the courts decide. But for you to decide that the entire bunch of states that you declared are responsible is stupid and couldn't be further from the truth.
That is what is wrong.

This is also my last word on this asinine subject.

The states are not dividing. You aren't starting a war to rid yourself of anything and the odds are you wouldn't know which end of a gun to point at an "enemy".

 

[Indus]

So for the actions of a handful of degenerate retarded criminals you are willing to condemn the entire Southeastern and Midwestern states. And are willing go so far as to have bloodshed to boot them from the United States.

I agree the idiots of on the riot in DC need to pay for their actions as per the law and what the courts decide. But for you to decide that the entire bunch of states that you declared are responsible is stupid and couldn't be further from the truth.
That is what is wrong.

This is also my last word on this asinine subject.

The states are not dividing. You aren't starting a war to rid yourself of anything and the odds are you wouldn't know which end of a gun to point at an "enemy".

Isn't a divorce better than staying together in a marriage where eventually someone just loses it and starts the shooting?

Much rather be divorced and pack up a uhaul and move. People do it all the time.

We can have an open border between us for those trapped in unfriendly areas to move to greener pastures but I'd rather have some semblance of a working democracy and government for the people than just gridlock, hate and mass shootings.

Feel free to call me crazy.

 

[Commodus]

So for the actions of a handful of degenerate retarded criminals you are willing to condemn the entire Southeastern and Midwestern states. And are willing go so far as to have bloodshed to boot them from the United States.

I agree the idiots of on the riot in DC need to pay for their actions as per the law and what the courts decide. But for you to decide that the entire bunch of states that you declared are responsible is stupid and couldn't be further from the truth.
That is what is wrong.

This is also my last word on this asinine subject.

The states are not dividing. You aren't starting a war to rid yourself of anything and the odds are you wouldn't know which end of a gun to point at an "enemy".

While I agree we're unlikely to see a split or a war, claiming this is just the problem of a handful of 'degenerates' just isn't accurate.

Remember, polling suggests that a third of Americans believe Trump's lie that the election was stolen, virtually all of them Republican supporters. The ones who stormed the Capitol were just those who were most willing to defend that lie. More importantly, the Republican party itself not only continues to throw its weight behind Trump, obstructing investigations and expecting him to win the nomination for 2024, but has a number of members who explicitly endorse Trump's lie, like Jim Jordan and Marjorie Taylor Greene, without any real punishment.

You see the problem? Between this and other efforts, such as gerrymandering and purposefully restrictive voter ID laws, the Republican party and its backers are increasingly becoming anti-democratic. Their ultimate goal is to have effectively permanent one-party rule by an ever-shrinking group, and that should be disturbing to everyone.

 

[mikeymikec]

While I agree we're unlikely to see a split or a war, claiming this is just the problem of a handful of 'degenerates' just isn't accurate.

IMO the problem with pcgeek is the problem with most American conservatives: they've joined a cult. IMO its the only explanation for how GQP supporters can act like Jan 6th was a thing that happened entirely by 'lone wolf nutjobs', entirely without any context that would suggest GQP involvement despite the fact that involvement was on TV staring them in the face, right from the top, and yet very much looks like the tip of the iceberg.

I think the basic premise that's being bandied about in this thread is ridiculous as well and would represent a dire failure of leadership in the US. IMO what needs to happen within Biden's first term are the arrests, trials and ideally executions of the major players in Jan 6th. There should be no possibility of forgiveness. A country that purports to be as fiercely pro-democracy and pro-freedom as the US should demand no less.

Unfortunately I think Biden is pissing about and hoping that it'll 'blow over', and if the US is lucky, the next time the GQP attempts to overthrow democracy, those on-site will put it down with deadly force followed by the immediate arrests of the most obvious instigators.

 

[Commodus]

IMO the problem with pcgeek is the problem with most American conservatives: they've joined a cult. IMO its the only explanation for how GQP supporters can act like Jan 6th was a thing that happened entirely by 'lone wolf nutjobs', entirely without any context that would suggest GQP involvement despite the fact that involvement was on TV staring them in the face, right from the top, and yet very much looks like the tip of the iceberg.

I think the basic premise that's being bandied about in this thread is ridiculous as well and would represent a dire failure of leadership in the US. IMO what needs to happen within Biden's first term are the arrests, trials and ideally executions of the major players in Jan 6th. There should be no possibility of forgiveness. A country that purports to be as fiercely pro-democracy and pro-freedom as the US should demand no less.

Unfortunately I think Biden is pissing about and hoping that it'll 'blow over', and if the US is lucky, the next time the GQP attempts to overthrow democracy, those on-site will put it down with deadly force followed by the immediate arrests of the most obvious instigators.

I don't think it's cult behavior in cases like this. Rather, it's a classic case of people being reluctant to change their political affiliations (or other strongly held beliefs), even when presented with firm evidence they should. If Pcgeek11 were strictly rational, he would promise to never vote for Republicans again until they repudiate Trump and commit to fair elections. But I doubt you'll get that answer even if he has serious misgivings, as that would involve rejecting the one party that meshes with his overall values.

Also, whoa... there shouldn't be any executions. If we're against the death penalty, we're against it — we don't make exceptions just because we really, really don't like what someone did. Give them lengthy sentences, deny them parole in some cases, but show them we're better by offering the mercy they didn't give.

 

[mikeymikec]

I don't think it's cult behavior in cases like this. Rather, it's a classic case of people being reluctant to change their political affiliations (or other strongly held beliefs), even when presented with firm evidence they should. If Pcgeek11 were strictly rational, he would promise to never vote for Republicans again until they repudiate Trump and commit to fair elections. But I doubt you'll get that answer even if he has serious misgivings, as that would involve rejecting the one party that meshes with his overall values.

IMO what you're talking about is when people will argue about what the nature of the evidence. pcgeek doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the evidence.

Also, whoa... there shouldn't be any executions. If we're against the death penalty, we're against it — we don't make exceptions just because we really, rally don't like what someone did. Give them lengthy sentences, deny them parole in some cases, but show them we're better by offering the mercy they didn't give.

I'm against the death penalty too, but a message needs to be sent that the gloves are off, and I don't think any developed country has ever gone easy on blatant treason (except possibly the Beer Putsch, and look how that turned out). Otherwise they'll be let out the moment the GQP get sufficient leverage and will be seen as a victory amongst their own.

Death penalty: IMO it should be kept in reserve for the worst-of-the-worst crimes. If an attempted violent uprising to overthrow democratically-held elections doesn't make the cut, I don't know of anything else that ought to qualify.

 

[BoomerD]

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

The USMC and DOD didn't release me from that promise when I mustered out in 1973...so, AFAIC, it still applies today.

 

[BoomerD]

The biggest problem with the whole stupid idea of splitting the states into two countries is that basically, AT BEST, you'd end up with a huge red block in the center of the two coasts...but in reality, the country is made up with way too many "purple" counties to ever divide properly. What happens to the liberal democrats in places like Texas, or republicans in California? Do you force them to relocate?

 

[MrSquished]

So for the actions of a handful of degenerate retarded criminals you are willing to condemn the entire Southeastern and Midwestern states. And are willing go so far as to have bloodshed to boot them from the United States.

I agree the idiots of on the riot in DC need to pay for their actions as per the law and what the courts decide. But for you to decide that the entire bunch of states that you declared are responsible is stupid and couldn't be further from the truth.
That is what is wrong.

This is also my last word on this asinine subject.

The states are not dividing. You aren't starting a war to rid yourself of anything and the odds are you wouldn't know which end of a gun to point at an "enemy".

What are you even blabbering on about? In no way did I say this is just about January 6th. In fact I didn't even mention that day. Trump has tried to overthrow democracy in many ways besides January 6th, he started well before the election even happeend, so Jan 6, that was just the last resort. From pressuring state election officials to state legislators coming together to almost overthrow results, to most of the GQP in the House voting to not certify the election, to just his entire delegitimizion of the election, period. Now all these fake audits meant to further erode election confidence. I mean if you can't figure out how, then you are beyond help. January 6th is just one tiny part of this whole equation. Besides corrupting democracy with everything the GQP has been able to do so far such as gutting the voting rights act, in this last election they have delegitimized democracy so future results can simply be thrown out if they cry fraud - and the laws they are passing are not only helping them suppress voting, but also to overthrow future elections. Almost nobody in the GQP has stood up to say this election lie is a danger to democracy. Virtually no GQP. The are all going along with the fascism. And a majority of the GQP supports these things. Now they have a base that are basically in full fascist mode, ready for the GQP to do exactly what it is saying they are going to do, overthrow any election that doesn't go their way in the future. It is such a far bigger picture than just January 6th, the fact you can't see this is just sad. The GQP has clearly gone full fascist and you are completely clueless and oblivious.

And I pointed out other reasons the separation needs to happen, you know, besides the little thing the majority of your party are fascist now. But if you can't figure out the fascism part, it's hopeless. You really think this is just about those actual individuals on January 6th. Amazing.