The God Helmet

[CPA]

I think the more interesting question is, why do you feel the need to discredit religion? Why is it important to prove there is no God?
Why not simply get over it and allow people with faith to be comforted by it?

I wonder the same things about most of the atheists on this board, and I'm an atheist myself. I just don't get all flustered when someone lives their lives around the principals of a God.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wonder the same things about most of the atheists on this board, and I'm an atheist myself. I just don't get all flustered when someone lives their lives around the principals of a God.

My belief is that this being a technical forum in a technical medium there is a substantial number of atheists/agnostics who have a way to post anonymously. Get a large group of people and the minority who are assholes have a higher chance to rise to the top.

Besides, this is one of the last permissible prejudices. As I alluded to try this with race and you are gone.

Persecution by religion has always happened and it's bad. Persecution FOR being religious has also occurred in great numbers. One race persecuting another- the same. Gays, check.

Being sophisticated upstanding internet citizens we won't allow racism, but want to make generalization about those who are religious? We welcome that.

After all, they deserve it.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

My belief is that this being a technical forum in a technical medium there is a substantial number of atheists/agnostics who have a way to post anonymously. Get a large group of people and the minority who are assholes have a higher chance to rise to the top.

Besides, this is one of the last permissible prejudices. As I alluded to try this with race and you are gone.

Persecution by religion has always happened and it's bad. Persecution FOR being religious has also occurred in great numbers. One race persecuting another- the same. Gays, check.

Being sophisticated upstanding internet citizens we won't allow racism, but want to make generalization about those who are religious? We welcome that.

After all, they deserve it.

I'm not agreeing with the OP, however, your argument has a glaring flaw. Race and sexual orientation are not a choice; you are born that way. Having religion, or lack thereof, IS a conscious choice that a person makes and should be subject to critique (within reason) without dire consequences.

That said, I really don't care what personal choices another person makes in their lives regarding spirituality, or a lack of it. The only time I care is when their choice affect my choice. iow, people should live and let live while keeping their noses out of everyone elses business. Spirituality, or a lack of it, is a personal decision, not a fucking public mandate, and folks on both sides of the coin should stop being such assholes about it.

 

[nonlnear]

I'm not agreeing with the OP, however, your argument has a glaring flaw. Race and sexual orientation are not a choice; you are born that way. Having religion, or lack thereof, IS a conscious choice that a person makes and should be subject to critique (within reason) without dire consequences.

That said, I really don't care what personal choices another person makes in their lives regarding spirituality, or a lack of it. The only time I care is when their choice affect my choice. iow, people should live and let live while keeping their noses out of everyone elses business. Spirituality, or a lack of it, is a personal decision, not a fucking public mandate, and folks on both sides of the coin should stop being such assholes about it.

Actually if you consider the full (potential) implications of the findings fairly, you would conclude that being religious may not really be any more of a choice for some than sexual orientation.

 

[Moonbeam]

Recent experiments have shown that sexual orgasm is a function of a certain area in the right hemisphere of the brain sending electrical signals to a corresponding area on the left side. This has suggested a reason why right handed people typically beat off with the left hand and visa versa. It has also shown that the neuro-transmitter involved, which should soon be able to be synthesized, will eliminate the need for a sexual partner and that orgasm can be extended for hours. Of course, there will doubtless still be devout fools who believe in love and relationship, but these backward idiots will become extinct in time. Sex is purely a brain function that can be duplicated in the lab. Romance, thank chemistry, is dead. We can not get on with planetary domination and leave our childish sexuality behind, or at least to hours when we aren't productively occupied.

 

[Moonbeam]

haybusa and loki..A "no" answer to a single question in no way acts as an IMPETUS to do anything...period, end of story. Before you get off your ass and do anything, you must make a positive decision..form a plan of action based on some other desire or principle in your mind. There is nothing indicating what sort of behavior an atheist should engage in. He could become a commie like Marx or an ultra-capitalist like Ayn Rand. He could become a tyrant like Stalin or a peace-loving hippie like John Lennon. There are no doctrines, dogmas, or holy books involved to influence one's beliefs. Not so when it comes to Christianity. If christians literally believe the creator of the universe has revealed his will in a holy book, they have justification for the course they take in life. They have a positive impetus to influence their actions.

There is no parallel for a lack of belief. If you want to pretend otherwise and claim a simple LACK of dogma is just as irrational and damaging as theism, that's your prerogative..but saying so publicly only demonstrates your ignorance.

You don't seem to see that because you can become anything as an atheist or anything as a religious person, one is no better than the other, so a lack of dogma is every bit as dangerous as dogma and potentially far more dangerous if the dogma is, Thou shalt not kill. You have to be an exceptional rationalizer to rationalize that away, not that it isn't done every day.

 

[Moonbeam]

Actually if you consider the full (potential) implications of the findings fairly, you would conclude that being religious may not really be any more of a choice for some than sexual orientation.

I should say so. I remember well the time I laid down on my bed and died and got up to find that every action I willed was also the Will of God, that we sang and danced the same song in a flowing echo of seven heavens.

 

[Patranus]

Just as emotional as those idiots who are on Whale Wars or any other "green" jackass.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Can we all please acknowledge that religion, superstition and other such nonsense is completely ridiculous now? Yes, apparently religion is a purely emotional phenomenon. Yes, the experience that everyone thinks is so life-altering can be reproduced in a laboratory by stimulating a certain area of the brain. Yes, this suggests that, after all, religious belief is an evolutionary phenomenon which developed because it imparted a survival benefit on ancient cultures. Could any intelligent, thinking, non-delusional person possibly require more proof than this?

Of course there are some who will probably start worshipping the helmet now...

http://www.clusterflock.org/2010/06/dr-michael-persingers-god-helmet.html
http://health.howstuffworks.com/brain-religion2.htm
http://www.skeptiko.com/michael-persinger-discovers-telepathic-link/

You have every right to believe what you want to . But like so many Dems . If others are not of the same mind . You reduce yourself to demeaning them or worse take pyhsical action against them . Same as the far right . But the Dems go to far They actually pass laws to protect their sick reasoning . Wereas no such laws are passed to protect the religious and there beliefs .

Its ok because there are powers greater than mans laws and those powers are awakened and soon enough you shall bend your knees to heaven . But only to preserve self , It is good that God knows your heart. Your end shall be of horror. That is Gods will his judgement is just.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Actually if you consider the full (potential) implications of the findings fairly, you would conclude that being religious may not really be any more of a choice for some than sexual orientation.

I would agree that there are people who are genetically predisosed to mental conditions (not implying that those conditions are necessarily any sort of flaw) that would cause them to gravitate towards religious beliefs. However, I don't believe anyone is genetically religious.

I'd find it hard to believe there's a Catholic or Islam gene.

 

[Moonbeam]

Funny, nobody ever sees the Spaghetti Monster or the Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause, it's almost always this weird fucking Thingi that loves them.

 

[Daedalus685]

My belief is that this being a technical forum in a technical medium there is a substantial number of atheists/agnostics who have a way to post anonymously. Get a large group of people and the minority who are assholes have a higher chance to rise to the top.

Besides, this is one of the last permissible prejudices. As I alluded to try this with race and you are gone.

Persecution by religion has always happened and it's bad. Persecution FOR being religious has also occurred in great numbers. One race persecuting another- the same. Gays, check.

Being sophisticated upstanding internet citizens we won't allow racism, but want to make generalization about those who are religious? We welcome that.

After all, they deserve it.

There is a major distinction between disagreement, and the assertion that one is 'wrong' and persecution.

While most religious threads on this forum are wastes of time, to claim one is wrong in their spiritual lives is no more prejudicial than the assertions that ones maths are wrong as the case may be.

There are may ways to have a civilized conversation about how a widely held belief is wrong without hating those that hold them or being particularly judgmental of an individual. It is unfortunate that so many that try to champion rationality are themselves victim to the same bite of idiocy.

Racism and homophobia are bigoted against an unavoidable physical trait where disagreement is in itself bigoted. For emotional or intellectual independently chosen traits (such as religion or political affiliation) simple disagreement is not bigoted and hatred of the individual is generally required to make it so.

 

[Danube]

"Persinger reports that at least 80 percent of his participants (working with the Koren Helmet) experience a presence beside them in the room, which ranges from a simple ’sensed presence’ to God. About one percent experienced God, while many more had less evocative, but still significant experiences of ‘another being’."


One Percent?
lol

 

[Moonbeam]

I would agree that there are people who are genetically predisosed to mental conditions (not implying that those conditions are necessarily any sort of flaw) that would cause them to gravitate towards religious beliefs. However, I don't believe anyone is genetically religious.

I'd find it hard to believe there's a Catholic or Islam gene.

The fact is that you are expressing a sort of religious belief, because you find some things believable and others not. To have a genetic predisposition to gravitate to religion is being genetically religiously inclined. Yours is a distinction without a difference in my opinion. Also, you do not really know. You just believe as you believe.

There are, I think, three main ways to God, through the mind, the body, and the heart with combinations. These may be genetic but like you, I do not know. The corresponding religions are the Way of the Yogi, the Way of the Fakir, and the Way of the Monk.

 

[Moonbeam]

"Persinger reports that at least 80 percent of his participants (working with the Koren Helmet) experience a presence beside them in the room, which ranges from a simple ’sensed presence’ to God. About one percent experienced God, while many more had less evocative, but still significant experiences of ‘another being’."


One Percent?
lol

Feeling like a freak?

 

[dammitgibs]

Look out, here comes another crusading atheist to tell us the good word.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is a major distinction between disagreement, and the assertion that one is 'wrong' and persecution.

While most religious threads on this forum are wastes of time, to claim one is wrong in their spiritual lives is no more prejudicial than the assertions that ones maths are wrong as the case may be.

There are may ways to have a civilized conversation about how a widely held belief is wrong without hating those that hold them or being particularly judgmental of an individual. It is unfortunate that so many that try to champion rationality are themselves victim to the same bite of idiocy.

Racism and homophobia are bigoted against an unavoidable physical trait where disagreement is in itself bigoted. For emotional or intellectual independently chosen traits (such as religion or political affiliation) simple disagreement is not bigoted and hatred of the individual is generally required to make it so.

Well, since we hate ourselves and therefore, by projection, everything in the world, 'making it so' won't be a problem.

 

[Moonbeam]

Look out, here comes another crusading atheist to tell us the good word.

It's Atheist Jihad.

 

[Patranus]

Look out, here comes another crusading atheist to tell us the good word.

Which side are you going to take?
United Atheist Alliance or the Unified Atheist League.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The fact is that you are expressing a sort of religious belief, because you find some things believable and others not. To have a genetic predisposition to gravitate to religion is being genetically religiously inclined. Yours is a distinction without a difference in my opinion. Also, you do not really know. You just believe as you believe.

There are, I think, three main ways to God, through the mind, the body, and the heart with combinations. These may be genetic but like you, I do not know. The corresponding religions are the Way of the Yogi, the Way of the Fakir, and the Way of the Monk.

My belief is an opinion based on observation and what is known from science. It has no religious basis as I am not invested in it whatsoever. I don't tithe or pray to it, nor do I prostrate myself or expect it to give me spiritual guidance.

I really wish people would stop this stupidity of trying to suppose that nearly any belief is essentially a "religion". There is a vast difference that you are overlooking.

Then again, you are preceisely one of those religious people I despise because you project your own beliefs on others and ridicule them because they won't subscribe to the same bullshit that you've brainwashed yourself into.

 

[Moonbeam]

TastesLikeChicken: My belief is an opinion based on observation and what is known from science. It has no religious basis as I am not invested in it whatsoever. I don't tithe or pray to it, nor do I prostrate myself or expect it to give me spiritual guidance.

M: Your belief is your belief. It includes the belief it is based on observation and what is known from science. In fact, it is based on YOUR observations, limited as they are, and what YOU know of science, limited as that be. It is just an opinion. Sweetening it with bull shit doesn't change that.

TLC: I really wish people would stop this stupidity of trying to suppose that nearly any belief is essentially a "religion". There is a vast difference that you are overlooking.

M: There is no different at all. You have a bias which makes you think your opinion has weight that other's opinions lack. In fact, your opinion is as valid or as worthless as anybody else's. For example, my own are based on my observations and what I know from science and I don't tithe or pray to it, nor do I prostrate myself or expect it to give me spiritual guidance. And because I observe with far less bias than you, recognizing that what I believe is only my own opinion, as good or as worthless as yours, and without the incredible ego massage you always give to your own, I would bet that mine are far more objective, but that's just the opinion of a modest person like myself over a bull horn blow fly like yourself.

TLC: Then again, you are precisely one of those religious people I despise because you project your own beliefs on others and ridicule them because they won't subscribe to the same bullshit that you've brainwashed yourself into.

M: Isn't that funny. I, on the other hand, love you. You couldn't be any different than you are and your blindness isn't your fault. You can not know that you are blind. But not to worry. I will always try to help you to see.

 

[TechBoyJK]

TLC i didn't know they found the gay gene which proves people are born gay. I still think it's nurture more than nature.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

M: Your belief is your belief. It includes the belief it is based on observation and what is known from science. In fact, it is based on YOUR observations, limited as they are, and what YOU know of science, limited as that be. It is just an opinion. Sweetening it with bull shit doesn't change that.

Erm, if you'll read my response properly instead of jerking your knee into your chin you might actually notice that I already stated that it is nothing more than my own opinion. It was sweetened with nothing.

M: There is no different at all. You have a bias which makes you think your opinion has weight that other's opinions lack. In fact, your opinion is as valid or as worthless as anybody else's. For example, my own are based on my observations and what I know from science and I don't tithe or pray to it, nor do I prostrate myself or expect it to give me spiritual guidance. And because I observe with far less bias than you, recognizing that what I believe is only my own opinion, as good or as worthless as yours, and without the incredible ego massage you always give to your own, I would bet that mine are far more objective, but that's just the opinion of a modest person like myself over a bull horn blow fly like yourself.

And you're wrong again, probably because, once again you are projecting your own method of "belief" on others. I believe what I believe, nothing more. I don't consider my opinion more or less worthless than that of anyone else. I don't subscribe to the same sort of condescending attitude that you so frequently engage in. My beliefs are just that, mine. I don't expect others should subscribe to them.

M: Isn't that funny. I, on the other hand, love you. You couldn't be any different than you are and your blindness isn't your fault. You can not know that you are blind. But not to worry. I will always try to help you to see.

And this attitude, folks, is the most severe problem with mankind's mindset. It's that attitude that ones beliefs are certainly correct and others simply can't see/aren't enlightened. Religion itself is not the bane of man, it's the idiots who invest themselves so thoroughly and deeply in their religious beliefs that their mission is to have everyone else become as "enlightened" as they are.

imo, I don't see that as any sort of enlightenment whatsoever. That attitude has started innumerable wars, wiped out untold cultures, and has torn families asunder throughout the history of man. Essentially it's being cocksuredly assinine and is the pinnacle of arrogance, nothing more.

 

[nonlnear]

I would agree that there are people who are genetically predisosed to mental conditions (not implying that those conditions are necessarily any sort of flaw) that would cause them to gravitate towards religious beliefs. However, I don't believe anyone is genetically religious.

I'd find it hard to believe there's a Catholic or Islam gene.

Now you're splitting hairs. Sexual orientation is just as broad as religion. (Not trying to make a quantitative comparison of "broadness" mind you, just saying they are both very broad spectra of behaviors.) Nobody asserts that there is a gay bodybuilder gene or a wine-sipping urbanite vegan gay gene either. The varied incarnations of a lifestyle/mindset are undoubtedly much more due to external influences than particular innate traits. That doesn't discredit the claim that the general trait is largely due to factors other than conscious choice, be they due to genetics, neonatal nurture, or other influences which straddle the nature/nurture boundary such as epigenetics.

 

[Moonbeam]

TLC i didn't know they found the gay gene which proves people are born gay. I still think it's nurture more than nature.

It's the martyr gene. Some folk are nurtured into thinking it would be a good idea to be gay so they can face a lifetime of hate from bigoted idiots nurtured into thinking they choose to be that way.