The G70 Appears

[thanasi]

LikeLinus dude im a electrition i make good money and im not 12.I can afford a ps3 thats not an issue.Im saying you get the whole package ,ok I see your point on chillen with your friends and playing games beting and having fun,but dont run off and say concel=pc killer.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: thanasi
games look way better on pc your not understanding my point you can get all in one with a pc thats what im trying to say,ok I can see where your comming from the ps3 is good for only 1 reason a foot rest.plus it looks so tacky.

Your arguments are weaker than a wet paper towel.

Guess what. I own both a gaming pc, xbox, gamecube and ps2. I plan on owning a 360 and will get the PS3 if I think its good enough. Know why? I'm an adult and I make good money. I can own both and see the value in both. That's quite an accomplishment. Let me pencil that in as one of my goals in life. :roll:

When you get over the age of 12....tell me you don't see the value in getting 3-4 friends over for some Madden football or other games w/ a case of beer (captain and coke for me!) and having a blast. "Men" usually get together despite protests from their wives and watch real football games. And if you think being able to consume alcohol legally is a sign of maturity.... Think again...

Oh wait...you're going to gather all your friends around your 17" monitor and share the keyboard. Nope, they are going to play over the NET, and communicate through something like Xfire. Wow, you must live alone. Your wife would rip you a new one if you were married. I take it you have no children but that is speculative.

Meanwhile my graphics will be every bit as good as yours and it cost me a whopping $299. OMG look out poor house!!!!

There is something your overlooking here sparky, what do the games cost and how many of them have you purchased? Don't tell me you just play the game that came with each console when you purchased them. What about the extra controllers? What about the network adapter? What about the headset? 299.00 is a joke.

So, who's holding the wet paper towel now?

I'm married (going on 8 years) with a child and we're expecting soon. You got me there big boy.

Real men don't watch Football on TV....real men have PSL's and tailgate like I do every Titans game.

Communicate through the net and play with friends? I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Those of us who venture out into the real world...gasp...have friends who aren't computer geeks! Now I know for a fact that I'm a geek and I like computers, but the majority of my friends would never think about doing such. Most of us like to get together and play consoles and drink (and play poker most of the time) when we do. It's about male bonding.....you can't do that over the internet.

I'm not sure why you think I'm not married..but I damn sure know you don't have any real life friends and go outside much now.

Additionally..you've forgotten about Xbox LIVE. Headset included.

I'm confused about these idiots who keep brining up games. You have to buy computer games too!!! You act like they are all free?!?!? Maybe if you pirate them..but thsoe same people can mod an xbox and put games on their HD. So whats your point???

On that note...If you want your friends to all play Doom3 with you, they each have to purchase a copy for $50!! My xbox version will play...gasp...up to 4 players on one box!

FYI Network adapter is built into the xbox also. Extra controllers do cost more. How many of you use the mouse your computer came with? Oh you built your own? So you had to purchase a keyboard and mouse.

This is getting stupid. As I was originally saying...Consoles have their place and they can be a hell of a lot of fun.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: thanasi
games look way better on pc your not understanding my point you can get all in one with a pc thats what im trying to say,ok I can see where your comming from the ps3 is good for only 1 reason a foot rest.plus it looks so tacky.

Your arguments are weaker than a wet paper towel.

Guess what. I own both a gaming pc, xbox, gamecube and ps2. I plan on owning a 360 and will get the PS3 if I think its good enough. Know why? I'm an adult and I make good money. I can own both and see the value in both. That's quite an accomplishment. Let me pencil that in as one of my goals in life. :roll:

When you get over the age of 12....tell me you don't see the value in getting 3-4 friends over for some Madden football or other games w/ a case of beer (captain and coke for me!) and having a blast. "Men" usually get together despite protests from their wives and watch real football games. And if you think being able to consume alcohol legally is a sign of maturity.... Think again...

Oh wait...you're going to gather all your friends around your 17" monitor and share the keyboard. Nope, they are going to play over the NET, and communicate through something like Xfire. Wow, you must live alone. Your wife would rip you a new one if you were married. I take it you have no children but that is speculative.

Meanwhile my graphics will be every bit as good as yours and it cost me a whopping $299. OMG look out poor house!!!!

There is something your overlooking here sparky, what do the games cost and how many of them have you purchased? Don't tell me you just play the game that came with each console when you purchased them. What about the extra controllers? What about the network adapter? What about the headset? 299.00 is a joke.

So, who's holding the wet paper towel now?

I'm married (going on 8 years) with a child and we're expecting soon. You got me there big boy.

Real men don't watch Football on TV....real men have PSL's and tailgate like I do every Titans game.

Communicate through the net and play with friends? I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Those of us who venture out into the real world...gasp...have friends who aren't computer geeks! Now I know for a fact that I'm a geek and I like computers, but the majority of my friends would never think about doing such. Most of us like to get together and play consoles and drink (and play poker most of the time) when we do. It's about male bonding.....you can't do that over the internet.

I'm not sure why you think I'm not married..but I damn sure know you don't have any real life friends and go outside much now.

Additionally..you've forgotten about Xbox LIVE. Headset included.

I'm confused about these idiots who keep brining up games. You have to buy computer games too!!! You act like they are all free?!?!? Maybe if you pirate them..but thsoe same people can mod an xbox and put games on their HD. So whats your point???

On that note...If you want your friends to all play Doom3 with you, they each have to purchase a copy for $50!! My xbox version will play...gasp...up to 4 players on one box!

FYI Network adapter is built into the xbox also. Extra controllers do cost more. How many of you use the mouse your computer came with? Oh you built your own? So you had to purchase a keyboard and mouse.

This is getting stupid. As I was originally saying...Consoles have their place and they can be a hell of a lot of fun.

Well, you fell for it. Just wanted to show you that you should never judge. You judged someone, so you should be as well albeit wrongly. If you are as mature as you say you are, [/i]be the mature one. Sorry for the ruse, but I just felt the need.

 

[LikeLinus]

WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Ronin
Biggest problem with the 360 compared to the PS3 is simple. The XBOX has a 10MB vid card buffer, which pretty much limits you to a 4X FSAA without falling into the actual RAM of the system.

The PS3, on the other hand, can utilize all 512MB of RAM as a buffer, providing a much larger space for textures and whatnot.

Naturally, this is all theoretical, but I think you're going to see the results in the visual department as an end result.

R500 has access to as much memory as RSX--actually, 10MBs more, counting the on-die 10MB buffer. And apparently R500 doesn't need to fit all the back-buffers into EDRAM at once. It can tile if need be, according to the Firingsquad ATI in Xb360 interview.

I guess we'll see after both Xb360 and PS3 are released exactly how much EDRAM helps WRT AA, when people see real games on their HDTVs.

This is the difference between what you hear, and what you see. I'm at E3 right now, and my information is based on talks with various people here.

Feel free to argue what you've heard if you want. Take what I've said for what it's worth, and disagree if you wish.

But I still don't understand what you're saying. If, as the people you talk with say, the X360 can accomodate 4xAA, do you think you need more or will get more out of the RSX at a decent framerate?

If you're saying the X360 has to fit textures into that 10MB, you're wrong--that's not what a back/stencil/Z-buffer is for. That's what the 512MB system memory (256MB allotted to each GPU) both consoles have is for.

The problem is, I don't think you know what a "buffer" is exactly. The buffer you're talking about WRT the X360's 10MB EDRAM is not used for textures. You'd think, given MS' push to standardize on 720p and AA, that they'd make sure that 10MBs would be enough. The fact that it's faster than external RAM and literally tied to the AA mechanism is apparently what will net the X360 "free" (it's probably more accurate to call it extremely efficient) AA. RSX, apparently being more like a typical PC GPU and not having any onboard RAM, may well not be as efficient with AA.

In terms of R500 having to hit main memory for buffer space, I don't know if it'll end up slower than RSX, because both will be accessing essentially identical 700MHz DDR via 128-bit buses. I would think R500, even if it had to spill its buffers over into main memory, would still have an advantage because most of its buffers were worked on in what looks to be much higher speed (and lower-latency?) EDRAM.

But, textures? Again, each console has 512MB. X360 has the GPU controlling access to the entire 512MB block. PS3 apparently has 256MB DDR for the GPU and 256MB XDR for the CPU, but the GPU can access CPU memory. I don't know if there's a penalty for the RSX using the Cell's 256MB XDR, but there probably isn't one for the R500 reaching beyond 256MB, simply because it controls all 512MB.

Again, I'm not sure what it is you intended to say. I will disagree with what I think you said, which is that the RSX has more memory to use than the R500. They both have the same amount of overall memory to work with for textures, which seems to be your main point. If your point is that either console will want to use higher than 4xAA, I'm not too sure about that. If you intended to say that R500 might end up slower with AA if it has to dip into main memory, I would think its apparent head start with EDRAM would basically keep it ahead of RSX in terms of buffer access.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Agreed, consoles are becoming more interesting. But like I said, any console game can be ported to PC which "to me" makes consoles least interesting.

Just because they could be, doenst mean they will be. So I dont understand your thinking on that one. You can browse the net on some consoles, and will be a regular feature very soon. I do agree that games look better on the PC, but given that this gen is the first to really support HDTV's, it will narrow that gap.

You dont need a network adapter for the next gens, so that point you tried to make was wrong. You dont need a headset to play games online, another point that is wrong. yes controllers cost more, just as they do for the PC. I dont enjoy playing a racing sim with my KB, you might.

 

[Dukemaster]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003Well, you fell for it. Just wanted to show you that you should never judge. You judged someone, so you should be as well albeit wrongly. If you are as mature as you say you are, [/i]be the mature one. Sorry for the ruse, but I just felt the need.

Somehow i get the feeling that you really don't get it. A high end videocard is $400-$500 and then you only got a graphics card, a Xbox 360 is $300-$400 and is a complete console. Get the point now?

 

[SynthDude2001]

And so the immature pissing match continues...

 

[rise]

lol, another thread spins out of control

 

[Dukemaster]

We are just having a discussion, what's wrong with that? If we wouldn't do that things would be pretty boring right? Hell what good would a forum be if we wouldn't discuss anything?

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Dukemaster
We are just having a discussion, what's wrong with that? If we wouldn't do that things would be pretty boring right? Hell what good would a forum be if we wouldn't discuss anything?

Hint: I'm not really referring to you

 

[Dukemaster]

Alraid my mistake, but i have alway's wanted to say that and now i have. But back on topic, this is how i see it(my opninion): A gaming console is not a alternative for the pc as a whole, but it is a good alternative for the pc as a gaming device(and not having to spend a lot of money every 1-2 years on new hardware because otherwise the games don't run well). And how i see it it's not just a good alternative, it's a great one. For me i have alway's hade a console, because i like games like Tekken, Metal gear solid, Gran turismo etc. and i can't play those games on pc.

 

[Regs]

Pete, I heard that PS3 and XBox uses a 256 bit bus or was that just another marketed term from the consoles?

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

lol this fool couldn't even back up his comments so he tries to spin it to make himself not look stupid.

Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Ronin
Biggest problem with the 360 compared to the PS3 is simple. The XBOX has a 10MB vid card buffer, which pretty much limits you to a 4X FSAA without falling into the actual RAM of the system.

The PS3, on the other hand, can utilize all 512MB of RAM as a buffer, providing a much larger space for textures and whatnot.

Naturally, this is all theoretical, but I think you're going to see the results in the visual department as an end result.

R500 has access to as much memory as RSX--actually, 10MBs more, counting the on-die 10MB buffer. And apparently R500 doesn't need to fit all the back-buffers into EDRAM at once. It can tile if need be, according to the Firingsquad ATI in Xb360 interview.

I guess we'll see after both Xb360 and PS3 are released exactly how much EDRAM helps WRT AA, when people see real games on their HDTVs.

This is the difference between what you hear, and what you see. I'm at E3 right now, and my information is based on talks with various people here.

Feel free to argue what you've heard if you want. Take what I've said for what it's worth, and disagree if you wish.

But I still don't understand what you're saying. If, as the people you talk with say, the X360 can accomodate 4xAA, do you think you need more or will get more out of the RSX at a decent framerate?

If you're saying the X360 has to fit textures into that 10MB, you're wrong--that's not what a back/stencil/Z-buffer is for. That's what the 512MB system memory (256MB allotted to each GPU) both consoles have is for.

The problem is, I don't think you know what a "buffer" is exactly. The buffer you're talking about WRT the X360's 10MB EDRAM is not used for textures. You'd think, given MS' push to standardize on 720p and AA, that they'd make sure that 10MBs would be enough. The fact that it's faster than external RAM and literally tied to the AA mechanism is apparently what will net the X360 "free" (it's probably more accurate to call it extremely efficient) AA. RSX, apparently being more like a typical PC GPU and not having any onboard RAM, may well not be as efficient with AA.

In terms of R500 having to hit main memory for buffer space, I don't know if it'll end up slower than RSX, because both will be accessing essentially identical 700MHz DDR via 128-bit buses. I would think R500, even if it had to spill its buffers over into main memory, would still have an advantage because most of its buffers were worked on in what looks to be much higher speed (and lower-latency?) EDRAM.

But, textures? Again, each console has 512MB. X360 has the GPU controlling access to the entire 512MB block. PS3 apparently has 256MB DDR for the GPU and 256MB XDR for the CPU, but the GPU can access CPU memory. I don't know if there's a penalty for the RSX using the Cell's 256MB XDR, but there probably isn't one for the R500 reaching beyond 256MB, simply because it controls all 512MB.

Again, I'm not sure what it is you intended to say. I will disagree with what I think you said, which is that the RSX has more memory to use than the R500. They both have the same amount of overall memory to work with for textures, which seems to be your main point. If your point is that either console will want to use higher than 4xAA, I'm not too sure about that. If you intended to say that R500 might end up slower with AA if it has to dip into main memory, I would think its apparent head start with EDRAM would basically keep it ahead of RSX in terms of buffer access.

You're confusing buffers here. The 10MB buffer that the R500 has is a limitation, not an addition. The rollover into the system RAM is the problem area, as the transition itself simply isn't an easy one, and will also cause some serious coding nightmares from the developers.

Coding around/through a buffer that's specifically designed to handle texture memory, and confining to that buffer (based on the size of the textures to begin with) is a PITA.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

lol this fool couldn't even back up his comments so he tries to spin it to make himself not look stupid.

Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.

There ya go judging again... tsk.. tsk...
I'm 36, married, two kids, gainfully employed.
Listen, the reason for my initial post to you was because of your previous arrogant post. You annoyed me. Pompous people tend to annoy me. You calling me an idiot and a fool is kind of like pissing into the wind. How? Because name calling is for 12 year olds, the very ones you mock: "Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.".

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

Cheers.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

lol this fool couldn't even back up his comments so he tries to spin it to make himself not look stupid.

Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.

There ya go judging again... tsk.. tsk...
I'm 36, married, two kids, gainfully employed.
Listen, the reason for my initial post to you was because of your previous arrogant post. You annoyed me. Pompous people tend to annoy me. You calling me an idiot and a fool is kind of like pissing into the wind. How? Because name calling is for 12 year olds, the very ones you mock: "Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.".

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

Cheers.

Want to talk about Pompous and being arrogant? You really should look at yourself. My original post had nothing to do with you. The problem here is you're seriously lacking something in your life if you feel the need to stick up for someone else. He was trashing people and consoles left and right because he doesn't like consoles. I was giving the guy a little taste of his own medicine. You apparently missed the parts where he said ""consles is for morons". He was making a generalization...so i threw a few back out at him.

Oh but no, you're the bigger better man for trying calling me out. You never made one valid point or put anything helpful...then you want to try to turn it around on me.

Well I fell for it..you're a stupid pomous ass as I would have though. It's called a HYPOCRITE..loook it up in the book buddy. You're the adult here.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

lol this fool couldn't even back up his comments so he tries to spin it to make himself not look stupid.

Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.

There ya go judging again... tsk.. tsk...
I'm 36, married, two kids, gainfully employed.
Listen, the reason for my initial post to you was because of your previous arrogant post. You annoyed me. Pompous people tend to annoy me. You calling me an idiot and a fool is kind of like pissing into the wind. How? Because name calling is for 12 year olds, the very ones you mock: "Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.".

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

Cheers.

Want to talk about Pompous and being arrogant? You really should look at yourself. My original post had nothing to do with you. The problem here is you're seriously lacking something in your life if you feel the need to stick up for someone else. He was trashing people and consoles left and right because he doesn't like consoles. I was giving the guy a little taste of his own medicine. You apparently missed the parts where he said ""consles is for morons". He was making a generalization...so i threw a few back out at him.

Oh but no, you're the bigger better man for trying calling me out. You never made one valid point or put anything helpful...then you want to try to turn it around on me.

Well I fell for it..you're a stupid pomous ass as I would have though. It's called a HYPOCRITE..loook it up in the book buddy. You're the adult here.

3 words: Anger Management Classes. Last checked, my I.Q. was around 140. Not a genius by any stretch, but no slouch. So your stupid comment goes out the door.
We actually have more in common that you think. I was trying to give you a taste of your own medicine, as you were giving the other dude. However, I missed the "consoles is for morons" statement. I apologize for that.

We square?

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

lol this fool couldn't even back up his comments so he tries to spin it to make himself not look stupid.

Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.

There ya go judging again... tsk.. tsk...
I'm 36, married, two kids, gainfully employed.
Listen, the reason for my initial post to you was because of your previous arrogant post. You annoyed me. Pompous people tend to annoy me. You calling me an idiot and a fool is kind of like pissing into the wind. How? Because name calling is for 12 year olds, the very ones you mock: "Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.".

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

Cheers.

Want to talk about Pompous and being arrogant? You really should look at yourself. My original post had nothing to do with you. The problem here is you're seriously lacking something in your life if you feel the need to stick up for someone else. He was trashing people and consoles left and right because he doesn't like consoles. I was giving the guy a little taste of his own medicine. You apparently missed the parts where he said ""consles is for morons". He was making a generalization...so i threw a few back out at him.

Oh but no, you're the bigger better man for trying calling me out. You never made one valid point or put anything helpful...then you want to try to turn it around on me.

Well I fell for it..you're a stupid pomous ass as I would have though. It's called a HYPOCRITE..loook it up in the book buddy. You're the adult here.

3 words: Anger Management Classes. Last checked, my I.Q. was around 140. Not a genius by any stretch, but no slouch. So your stupid comment goes out the door.
We actually have more in common that you think. I was trying to give you a taste of your own medicine, as you were giving the other dude. However, I missed the "consoles is for morons" statement. I apologize for that.

We square?

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
WTF are you talking about. You didn't prove anything? I didn't fall for anything. There was nothing to fall for. You made stupid statements about game cost and playing over the net.

lol what an idiot.

Stop proving my point for me... It takes the challenge out of it.
Have a good day man.

-- The idiot.

lol this fool couldn't even back up his comments so he tries to spin it to make himself not look stupid.

Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.

There ya go judging again... tsk.. tsk...
I'm 36, married, two kids, gainfully employed.
Listen, the reason for my initial post to you was because of your previous arrogant post. You annoyed me. Pompous people tend to annoy me. You calling me an idiot and a fool is kind of like pissing into the wind. How? Because name calling is for 12 year olds, the very ones you mock: "Gotta love the internet and the kids on it.".

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

Cheers.

Want to talk about Pompous and being arrogant? You really should look at yourself. My original post had nothing to do with you. The problem here is you're seriously lacking something in your life if you feel the need to stick up for someone else. He was trashing people and consoles left and right because he doesn't like consoles. I was giving the guy a little taste of his own medicine. You apparently missed the parts where he said ""consles is for morons". He was making a generalization...so i threw a few back out at him.

Oh but no, you're the bigger better man for trying calling me out. You never made one valid point or put anything helpful...then you want to try to turn it around on me.

Well I fell for it..you're a stupid pomous ass as I would have though. It's called a HYPOCRITE..loook it up in the book buddy. You're the adult here.

3 words: Anger Management Classes. Last checked, my I.Q. was around 140. Not a genius by any stretch, but no slouch. So your stupid comment goes out the door.
We actually have more in common that you think. I was trying to give you a taste of your own medicine, as you were giving the other dude. However, I missed the "consoles is for morons" statement. I apologize for that.

We square?

I won't waste any more time on ya. Hope you have a thick skin and are able to get over yourself.

What a d!ck..... :roll:

 

[BenSkywalker]

You're confusing buffers here. The 10MB buffer that the R500 has is a limitation, not an addition. The rollover into the system RAM is the problem area, as the transition itself simply isn't an easy one, and will also cause some serious coding nightmares from the developers.

Actually, across the board every developer I have ever seen comment about eDRAM is extremely pleased with it- it is vastly superior to DRAM.

Coding around/through a buffer that's specifically designed to handle texture memory, and confining to that buffer (based on the size of the textures to begin with) is a PITA.

You must have spoken with enormously inept developers. The lack of eDRAM has been widely cited as the one weak link the XBox had this generation. Obviously its brute force in other elements was enough to overcome this particular weakness, but it was still a definite drawback compared to its competition.

This is the difference between what you hear, and what you see. I'm at E3 right now, and my information is based on talks with various people here.

Name them. Tell us who it is that told you that. Tell us the particular developers and what projects they are working on.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
What a d!ck..... :roll:

You're telling me. I love people who say...i[m not going to post anymore..cause youre not worth my time.

Only to follow up with more jackass comments 10 mins later.

3 words: Self Control Classes

The great thing is you'll keep resonding. It's the "adult" thing to do.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

You're confusing buffers here. The 10MB buffer that the R500 has is a limitation, not an addition. The rollover into the system RAM is the problem area, as the transition itself simply isn't an easy one, and will also cause some serious coding nightmares from the developers.

Actually, across the board every developer I have ever seen comment about eDRAM is extremely pleased with it- it is vastly superior to DRAM.

Coding around/through a buffer that's specifically designed to handle texture memory, and confining to that buffer (based on the size of the textures to begin with) is a PITA.

You must have spoken with enormously inept developers. The lack of eDRAM has been widely cited as the one weak link the XBox had this generation. Obviously its brute force in other elements was enough to overcome this particular weakness, but it was still a definite drawback compared to its competition.

This is the difference between what you hear, and what you see. I'm at E3 right now, and my information is based on talks with various people here.

Name them. Tell us who it is that told you that. Tell us the particular developers and what projects they are working on.

So they're all liars Ben?

 

[Pete]

Ronin, again you speak of textures in the buffers (back, front, stencil, whatever). Textures are not directly related to the buffers meant to be encapsulated in EDRAM.

The rollover into the system RAM is the problem area, as the transition itself simply isn't an easy one, and will also cause some serious coding nightmares from the developers.

MS has said DirectX Next will have virtualised memory controlled by MS, effectively taking it out of the developers' hands and leaving it for MS to worry about. Don't you think they might be implementing this with Xb360?

Again, Xenos (aka R500, aka Xb360's GPU) has 256GB/s (apparently uncompressed) b/w the 10MB EDRAM and the associated logic (ROPs, AA). I still don't get how you can portray that as a disadvantage, even if its only benefit is free AA. If you think it'll limit Xb360 WRT 1080p, well, let's just say I don't see 1080p being a factor for another five years. I believe the vast majority of HDTVs in the Xb360's and PS3's lifespans (about five years) will still be 720p or 1080i as opposed to 1080p. Again, 1080p is the only reason I can think of why you and the devs you spoke to are so worried about 10MB EDRAM as a limitation.

Coding around/through a buffer that's specifically designed to handle texture memory, and confining to that buffer (based on the size of the textures to begin with) is a PITA.

I don't understand the two parts of this sentence at all. Can you or someone else (Ben?) explain this a bit more clearly? I really think you're the one who doesn't understand the purpose of a back-buffer and where textures are stored. AFAIK, textures are not stored in a back-, front-, stencil-, or z-buffer--which are the only buffers I imagine are candidates for EDRAM. From what I gather, the front buffer won't even be in EDRAM, meaning it must be in system RAM. That means Xenos has to move the back-buffer in EDRAM to the front-buffer in system RAM every single frame. If that's the case, you'd think they'd worked it out so this is a pretty quick operation. Given that Xenos itself is the arbiter of memory for the whole Xb360, I'd imagine getting around/through/whatever the system memory isn't a problem.

keys, again, who are "they?" Which devs view 10MB of 256GB/s EDRAM on top of the ubiquitous ~25GB/s (128-bit 700MHz) DDR system memory as a limitation?