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Question The FX 8350 revisited. Good time to talk about it because reasons.

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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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1500X's back in stock, $115.46. Posted in Hot Deals.
That was the first Ryzen CPU I ever used. It is still running my friend's classic WoW boxen.

Warm feels for it or not, the i3 10100 makes it irrelevant at that price, and includes iGPU. A used 3100 for $135-$140 would be a better drop in replacement for AM4 owners with something like a 1200 or Athlon. Without spending too much more.
 

EliteRetard

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2006
6,490
1,019
136
This thread makes me feel weird...
AM3 was the last system I could afford.
People here talking about how great it is to go back and visit...

I never got to leave.

My system is slowly failing, so I might be forced to replace it.
Anything I can afford right now feels like it would be a step down.

Yet people are tossing out things like 7700ks because "they suck".

I'm also wishing for a GPU upgrade, but an R9-290x labeled as RX580 is $500.
Unfortunately even the MSRPs are stupid, and don't give me the inflation spiel.
If you wanna talk inflation, people in 1968 got paid 46% more minimum than today.
Make minimum wage $20/hr right now +3-5% each year, then I'll accept inflation.

 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,115
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This thread makes me feel weird...
AM3 was the last system I could afford.
People here talking about how great it is to go back and visit...

I never got to leave.

My system is slowly failing, so I might be forced to replace it.
Anything I can afford right now feels like it would be a step down.
Post your system specs or PM them to me. And which components seem to be going belly up. I will see if I can help you out.
 

EliteRetard

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2006
6,490
1,019
136
Post your system specs or PM them to me. And which components seem to be going belly up. I will see if I can help you out.
Thanks for the offer, for as much as I complain I still have a hard time accepting.

I'm fairly sure it's the MOBO that's failing.
If I recall: Gigabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H
Losing USB, audio, and if I recall it had a SATA chip that went bad.
I've been able to work around the issues by using different ports for now.
Also had to reduce clocks and adjust voltages etc. to keep it stable

I'm fairly certain I would also have to replace the OS if I changed the MOBO.
I know I did the free upgrade to Win10 when it was offered.
Can't recall if it was Vista or 7 at the time, and it was likely not retail.

Just hasn't been worth the expense or hassle to replace parts.

A while back I thought I had saved "enough", but I waited to long to buy.
I thought "I'll just keep saving until Ryzen 5th gen and the new GPUs are out".

Well that went to crap fast.
I feel like the first mining craze screwed with me as well.

Then I thought, maybe I'll just use an APU and finish the upgrade later.
But since the first Ryzens it seems like AMD has a loathing for APUs.
Sure, they'll pretend to make some crap tier sympathy APUs...
But that feels like a downgrade, and stock/prices aren't good either.
I suspect AMD won't be keeping AM4 any longer, but it already has a 5950x.
Wonder how that will hold up, and if it can be acquired "cheap" in a few years.

So how about Intel with IGP?
It seems they are actively trying to make their CPU's worse.
Fewer cores and higher prices, and no future to speak of.

I'm not sure what the future of CPUs will look like.
Will we need more cores, or is 8 enough?
Will we go back to frequency wars?

Oddly, I feel like more has changed in the last couple years than the decade prior.
Will progress grind to a halt again like it did when we first hit 2 and 4 cores?

I know most don't keep their PC's as long this, and rarely actually upgrade them.
I sure wouldn't mind it if I could upgrade to a new high end every ~3 years or so.

Now I've been considering getting some crapo prebuilt for the time being...
But to me that's almost like throwing away money, since it's not upgradeable.
I guess I just like complaining, in the scheme of things I do have options.
It's not like I'm stuck in a third world and/or war torn country.

Doesn't stop me from feeling like I missed out on a bunch of stuff though.
And seeing the things people have already moved from/tossed out...oh the feels.
Like one YouTube channel that got a bunch of good i5-i7s to scrap for "art"

Or complaints about the chip shortage and having to use their "old" stuff.
All of which are multitudes faster than what I got for a primary rig.

And because of the crazy market, stupid ancient stuff is crazy expensive too.
Seriously, why is the RX580 still a thing and why is it going for $500+
That GPU is basically an R9-290x after a few minor speed bumps.
Fastest thing I've ever used was a friends rig with a 4790k and GTX970
Even that GPU is pretty much a 290x/RX580, and a friggen scam (still mad).
You could pretty easily get a 290x under $250 back in like 2014/2015.

It feels like there has been zero improvements in affordable GPUs for so long.
I feel like I should be able to buy a vanilla 2070 for $200 by now.
Those should have been under $350 to start with.

CPU progress for a long time was crap too, 2011-2018.
That's probably the reason my PC doesn't feel horridly slow.
Programmers working for the lowest common part, dual core i3s.
Now the minimum seems to be quad core, and typical is 6-8 core.

Wow, scrolling up through my post...clearly I've gone on a rant.

I guess I'm just lamenting my relative American poverty, wishing I had greater things.
Like somewhat modern electronic toys...and my own place (or more than 100 sq ft).
 

EliteRetard

Diamond Member
Mar 6, 2006
6,490
1,019
136
Ironically after posting, I see this came out today:


Other tech people lamenting the ludicrous cost of living/price increases.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
136
That was the first Ryzen CPU I ever used. It is still running my friend's classic WoW boxen.

Warm feels for it or not, the i3 10100 makes it irrelevant at that price, and includes iGPU. A used 3100 for $135-$140 would be a better drop in replacement for AM4 owners with something like a 1200 or Athlon. Without spending too much more.
Dang it, I knew someone was going to call this out and talk about i3 10100 and the 3100, but where can we get a 3100 at MSRP right now?

And Intel, someone would have to get a new board, what if they already have an A320 and a 2c/4t chip?
 
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B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
136
Thanks for the offer, for as much as I complain I still have a hard time accepting.

I'm fairly sure it's the MOBO that's failing.
If I recall: Gigabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H
Losing USB, audio, and if I recall it had a SATA chip that went bad.
I've been able to work around the issues by using different ports for now.
Also had to reduce clocks and adjust voltages etc. to keep it stable

I'm fairly certain I would also have to replace the OS if I changed the MOBO.
I know I did the free upgrade to Win10 when it was offered.
Can't recall if it was Vista or 7 at the time, and it was likely not retail.

Just hasn't been worth the expense or hassle to replace parts.

A while back I thought I had saved "enough", but I waited to long to buy.
I thought "I'll just keep saving until Ryzen 5th gen and the new GPUs are out".

Well that went to crap fast.
I feel like the first mining craze screwed with me as well.

Then I thought, maybe I'll just use an APU and finish the upgrade later.
But since the first Ryzens it seems like AMD has a loathing for APUs.
Sure, they'll pretend to make some crap tier sympathy APUs...
But that feels like a downgrade, and stock/prices aren't good either.
I suspect AMD won't be keeping AM4 any longer, but it already has a 5950x.
Wonder how that will hold up, and if it can be acquired "cheap" in a few years.

So how about Intel with IGP?
It seems they are actively trying to make their CPU's worse.
Fewer cores and higher prices, and no future to speak of.

I'm not sure what the future of CPUs will look like.
Will we need more cores, or is 8 enough?
Will we go back to frequency wars?

Oddly, I feel like more has changed in the last couple years than the decade prior.
Will progress grind to a halt again like it did when we first hit 2 and 4 cores?

I know most don't keep their PC's as long this, and rarely actually upgrade them.
I sure wouldn't mind it if I could upgrade to a new high end every ~3 years or so.

Now I've been considering getting some crapo prebuilt for the time being...
But to me that's almost like throwing away money, since it's not upgradeable.
I guess I just like complaining, in the scheme of things I do have options.
It's not like I'm stuck in a third world and/or war torn country.

Doesn't stop me from feeling like I missed out on a bunch of stuff though.
And seeing the things people have already moved from/tossed out...oh the feels.
Like one YouTube channel that got a bunch of good i5-i7s to scrap for "art"

Or complaints about the chip shortage and having to use their "old" stuff.
All of which are multitudes faster than what I got for a primary rig.

And because of the crazy market, stupid ancient stuff is crazy expensive too.
Seriously, why is the RX580 still a thing and why is it going for $500+
That GPU is basically an R9-290x after a few minor speed bumps.
Fastest thing I've ever used was a friends rig with a 4790k and GTX970
Even that GPU is pretty much a 290x/RX580, and a friggen scam (still mad).
You could pretty easily get a 290x under $250 back in like 2014/2015.

It feels like there has been zero improvements in affordable GPUs for so long.
I feel like I should be able to buy a vanilla 2070 for $200 by now.
Those should have been under $350 to start with.

CPU progress for a long time was crap too, 2011-2018.
That's probably the reason my PC doesn't feel horridly slow.
Programmers working for the lowest common part, dual core i3s.
Now the minimum seems to be quad core, and typical is 6-8 core.

Wow, scrolling up through my post...clearly I've gone on a rant.

I guess I'm just lamenting my relative American poverty, wishing I had greater things.
Like somewhat modern electronic toys...and my own place (or more than 100 sq ft).
I have two AM3+ ATX boards I can test, I know at least 1 is good, and an RX 480 4GB not being used that needs a good home, lemme know via PM.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,115
4,844
146
Dang it, I knew someone was going to call this out and talk about i3 10100 and the 3100, but where can we get a 3100 at MSRP right now?

And Intel, someone would have to get a new board, what if they already have an A320 and a 2c/4t chip?
Don't get me wrong, it is not the worst deal, I'd call it warmish. :D what with the warranty and market conditions.

That said, I had an A320 that ran a 3600 perfectly. And I would still go with a different drop in CPU over the 1500X. For example: here is a used 1600AF for $110 shipped on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/254962402377?epid=7035669728&hash=item3b5cf18449:g:mmoAAOSw9mJgjM41

It will merc that 1500X. The OG 4/8 and under Ryzens are not aging too well. They did what they needed to i.e. slap Intel around on cores per dollar, and provide an inexpensive alternative, with a serious upgrade path. I have a 3600 in the X370 I bought over 3yrs ago, that once ran that 1500X. And could drop a 3950 in it, that is what I call a great upgrade path.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
136
Don't get me wrong, it is not the worst deal, I'd call it warmish. :D what with the warranty and market conditions.

That said, I had an A320 that ran a 3600 perfectly. And I would still go with a different drop in CPU over the 1500X. For example: here is a used 1600AF for $110 shipped on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/254962402377?epid=7035669728&hash=item3b5cf18449:g:mmoAAOSw9mJgjM41

It will merc that 1500X. The OG 4/8 and under Ryzens are not aging too well. They did what they needed to i.e. slap Intel around on cores per dollar, and provide an inexpensive alternative, with a serious upgrade path. I have a 3600 in the X370 I bought over 3yrs ago, that once ran that 1500X. And could drop a 3950 in it, that is what I call a great upgrade path.
These new 1500X's had to be a special run to account for no 7nm capacity for 3100 and 3300X, I bet all those wafers got reassigned to make Zen3 APU's for OEM PC's that are going to hit retail in a month or two.

Used is always an option, it looks like flea bay can get you a ~$120 1600 AF, based on sold listings.


But, a new 1600AF is $177.99 on Amazon, new 3600 is $269.95 from Amazon.

So, as a new chip, with no 3100's in sight, right now, it seems to be the new 1600AF when it was $85 - $105.

And, it really does not look that bad against a 2600; AT bench is using a GTX 1080, so a 580 / 1060 with this is going to handle 60-75 fps just fine.;


1619868527332.png

I know it is not as good as the 1600 AF / 2600, but, [gestures broadly at supply chain] Zen1 with 16 MB L3 still holds up as a budget gaming chip.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
136
Thanks for the offer, for as much as I complain I still have a hard time accepting.

I'm fairly sure it's the MOBO that's failing.
If I recall: Gigabyte GA-MA790GPT-UD3H
Losing USB, audio, and if I recall it had a SATA chip that went bad.
I've been able to work around the issues by using different ports for now.
Also had to reduce clocks and adjust voltages etc. to keep it stable

I'm fairly certain I would also have to replace the OS if I changed the MOBO.
I know I did the free upgrade to Win10 when it was offered.
Can't recall if it was Vista or 7 at the time, and it was likely not retail.

Just hasn't been worth the expense or hassle to replace parts.

A while back I thought I had saved "enough", but I waited to long to buy.
I thought "I'll just keep saving until Ryzen 5th gen and the new GPUs are out".

Well that went to crap fast.
I feel like the first mining craze screwed with me as well.

Then I thought, maybe I'll just use an APU and finish the upgrade later.
But since the first Ryzens it seems like AMD has a loathing for APUs.
Sure, they'll pretend to make some crap tier sympathy APUs...
But that feels like a downgrade, and stock/prices aren't good either.
I suspect AMD won't be keeping AM4 any longer, but it already has a 5950x.
Wonder how that will hold up, and if it can be acquired "cheap" in a few years.

So how about Intel with IGP?
It seems they are actively trying to make their CPU's worse.
Fewer cores and higher prices, and no future to speak of.

I'm not sure what the future of CPUs will look like.
Will we need more cores, or is 8 enough?
Will we go back to frequency wars?

Oddly, I feel like more has changed in the last couple years than the decade prior.
Will progress grind to a halt again like it did when we first hit 2 and 4 cores?

I know most don't keep their PC's as long this, and rarely actually upgrade them.
I sure wouldn't mind it if I could upgrade to a new high end every ~3 years or so.

Now I've been considering getting some crapo prebuilt for the time being...
But to me that's almost like throwing away money, since it's not upgradeable.
I guess I just like complaining, in the scheme of things I do have options.
It's not like I'm stuck in a third world and/or war torn country.

Doesn't stop me from feeling like I missed out on a bunch of stuff though.
And seeing the things people have already moved from/tossed out...oh the feels.
Like one YouTube channel that got a bunch of good i5-i7s to scrap for "art"

Or complaints about the chip shortage and having to use their "old" stuff.
All of which are multitudes faster than what I got for a primary rig.

And because of the crazy market, stupid ancient stuff is crazy expensive too.
Seriously, why is the RX580 still a thing and why is it going for $500+
That GPU is basically an R9-290x after a few minor speed bumps.
Fastest thing I've ever used was a friends rig with a 4790k and GTX970
Even that GPU is pretty much a 290x/RX580, and a friggen scam (still mad).
You could pretty easily get a 290x under $250 back in like 2014/2015.

It feels like there has been zero improvements in affordable GPUs for so long.
I feel like I should be able to buy a vanilla 2070 for $200 by now.
Those should have been under $350 to start with.

CPU progress for a long time was crap too, 2011-2018.
That's probably the reason my PC doesn't feel horridly slow.
Programmers working for the lowest common part, dual core i3s.
Now the minimum seems to be quad core, and typical is 6-8 core.

Wow, scrolling up through my post...clearly I've gone on a rant.

I guess I'm just lamenting my relative American poverty, wishing I had greater things.
Like somewhat modern electronic toys...and my own place (or more than 100 sq ft).
I have so much extra stuff, I would love to help someone that truly needs it. I got the pile of AM3+ parts for almost nothing because someone upgraded to a Ryzen 7 1700 and did not want to mess with testing the CPU, 2 boards and RAM. I will gladly pass it on, see below, you can help someone in the future when able.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/elal2/_/c18z0z2
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,115
4,844
146
You make a good case for it, but that 1600AF has better IPC and 4 more threads for the same money. Easy choice for me. But I am glad you shared it with us, some will be grateful for the deal. :beercheers: Oh, and all this coming from someone who paid almost that much for a 8350 that gets molly-whopped by the 1500X.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,115
4,844
146
I have so much extra stuff, I would love to help someone that truly needs it. I got the pile of AM3+ parts for almost nothing because someone upgraded to a Ryzen 7 1700 and did not want to mess with testing the CPU, 2 boards and RAM. I will gladly pass it on, see below, you can help someone in the future when able.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/elal2/_/c18z0z2
Warms me heart to see this virtual village looking out for each other.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
901
87
91
I see the argument that some can call the FX lineup as finewine, but I don't see it like that at all. I had never been satisfied if I had gotten an FX 8350 back then and had to wait for multiple years to show its strength.
What made the i7 CPUs kings were that they performed great in single threaded games as well as aging greatly in more multithreaded games.

Same deal with GPUs, I consider GCN finewine because it was competetive at launch and just kept aging better than the Nvidia equivalents.

Another area I have wondered about myself is why the Core 2 Quad, in the few benchmarks available, has aged so badly compared to the Phenom II X4 lineup. When C2Q launched, it was criticized for being two dual cores glued together whereas the Phenom II was native quad core, I do wonder if that is what made the C2Q less future proof.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,217
779
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Another area I have wondered about myself is why the Core 2 Quad, in the few benchmarks available, has aged so badly compared to the Phenom II X4 lineup. When C2Q launched, it was criticized for being two dual cores glued together whereas the Phenom II was native quad core, I do wonder if that is what made the C2Q less future proof.
It's a combination of factors I think. C2Q's had both the disadvantage of being double die, having to communicate to both the other die, and the memory controller using the FSB.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,115
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146
I see the argument that some can call the FX lineup as finewine, but I don't see it like that at all. I had never been satisfied if I had gotten an FX 8350 back then and had to wait for multiple years to show its strength.
That's fair. I don't think I share your definition of fine wine though. I take it to mean a particular aged wine that requires time to reach its potential. It is not as good when it is young/fresh. Also, red wines are generally considered the best for aging, and AMD is "Team Red" so it always seemed like a fitting analogy. But whatever, I don't want to debate it.

And it was never a bad processor, but at first it was certainly badly priced. It was $200 or more, which made the i5 a better pick at that time, no doubt. I bought one for effectively less than $100 U.S. a few years later. At that price it made a great deal more sense.
 
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Magic Carpet

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Oct 2, 2011
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I see the argument that some can call the FX lineup as finewine, but I don't see it like that at all. I had never been satisfied if I had gotten an FX 8350 back then and had to wait for multiple years to show its strength.
What made the i7 CPUs kings were that they performed great in single threaded games as well as aging greatly in more multithreaded games.
Of course, i7s were better, had iGPU and used less power, yet good mobo + cpu cost considerably more money. That's what made AMD attractive at least in my eyes back in the day (and the fact that it had solder vs TIM). Yet, in MT loads it performed on par with i7 or slightly better in some workloads:

1619888682840.png1619888700108.png
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
901
87
91
Of course, i7s were better, had iGPU and used less power, yet good mobo + cpu cost considerably more money. That's what made AMD attractive at least in my eyes back in the day (and the fact that it had solder vs TIM). Yet, in MT loads it performed on par with i7 or slightly better in some workloads:

View attachment 43806View attachment 43807
If one bought it for software that actually used more than four cores/threads, it was obviously better off from the start. For a gaming CPU though, I'd never have called it good. What mostly saved it in comparisons with even the Phenom II X4/X6 that it replaced were the higher clock speeds.

As I said, I do see why people say it's aging like fine wine, because it obviously did improve as software improved. If I put it in other words though, I'd never use it as a good example as fine wine, because I don't consider hardware that wasn't particularly good at release as wine.
Because if you were a gamer, you were sometimes better off even with an Ivy Bridge i3, in the majority of cases an IB i5, and if you were after the best of both worlds, an IB i7.

AMD sure does have a history of having products that performed better as the years went on though. As I said above, I believe that to be the case for Phenom II vs C2Q. The only drawback for Phenom II today is missing SSE4.1 so even the X6 can't run certain games like Red Dead Redemption 2.
Going way back, the X1900xt aged alot better than the 7900 GTX, and even the HD 4000 series were able to play some late games that the 200 series weren't able to due to missing DX10.1 and Nvidia obviously not stepping in and helping with extensions for such an old GPU anymore.

It's a pity that many hardware sites never do serious comparisons for old hardware, they're always too focused on modern hardware IMO, because this last decade does show that hardware that was said to be a little more future proof actually did turn out to be so in a meaningful way.
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
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...............
Now before you start spamming me with other reviews that show the i5 is still superior, I have seen them. The problem is they are not about the game play experience, just bar graphs of canned benchies, 60 second runs, that kind of stuff. The 8350 is now smoother in some newer titles when you play them. I have no trouble accepting that. I have used 4/4 i5s overclocked too. Furthermore, it took 8 years and a new more resource hungry OS and version of said OS to get there. Talk about too little too late.
...............
Did OS patches/improvements to fix Ryzen scheduling issues inadvertently also improve Bulldozer arch cpu performance? Or was it just because OS/apps are just more multithreaded nowadays?
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
23,115
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Did OS patches/improvements to fix Ryzen scheduling issues inadvertently also improve Bulldozer arch cpu performance? Or was it just because OS/apps are just more multithreaded nowadays?
The first question I cannot even hazard an educated guess about. Hopefully someone qualified, will answer that for us.

That the supposition in the second question is happening, we can see in a practical sense, for ourselves. The bashers of FX and early Ryzen often mockingly typed MOAR COREZ!!1!!! But here we are.

And to amend something I stated, I no longer think the i3 or i5 were better when it mattered, because it still matters. We can be myopic here in the wealthiest countries, but there are still many users of that era of hardware, in other countries where the average monthly income is far lower. LowSpecGamer on youtube and Nebula, does a great job of pointing this out. Read the comments on videos about FX and old Sandy and Ivy systems, and you will see there are many still using them perforce, or by choice. That a circa 2012 i7 or 8 series FX can still provide a good user experience for many people, embodies the idea of futureproofing IMO.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
136
Wow. That expensive?

I bought 2 months ago and still can, a 4650g at almost 200€.
USA prices are borked; I think there is profiteering / price gouging going on, but, with e-tail, everyone just matches each others prices right now.

And I don't think we have a "good" affordable retail source for the Zen2 APU's yet :(
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,481
610
136
Did OS patches/improvements to fix Ryzen scheduling issues inadvertently also improve Bulldozer arch cpu performance? Or was it just because OS/apps are just more multithreaded nowadays?
Windows has gotten better in general, but, games moved from ST to MT with the parallel occurence of AMD in the PS4 and Xbox One.

If you watch any of the RA Tech vids or Random Gaming in HD vids with FX tests, newer games do much better.

So, if someone hung on to an 83xx chip, it is a good 60 FPS (mostly) gaming chip with a newish vid card, for newer games, oddly enough.

The minimum FPS (less drops / stuttering) on newer games with the 83xx are much better than a 2, 3, or 4 series Intel i5.

FX is weak on the old ST games.
 

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