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The future of the GOP

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,750
6,764
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: Vic
Unfortunately, I see the Republican party moving farther right towards the religious fundies and nationalism, essentially marginalizing themselves.

That's entirely possible. That would be a shame, and I'm not all that trusting of the Democrats to keep spending under control, and taxes in line. Though at this point in time, this conservative feels fully that the continuation of recent GOP policy would be a total disaster for this country. I hope Obama proves worthy of this chance, and I have a good feeling he will be.

Yeah, I'm optimistic about Obama. Largely due to what we're talking about here, the Dems are not all hippie liberals anymore. The farther the Pubs moved to the right, the more moderates found themselves with the Dems. There's a good number of conservative and moderate Dems in Congress now. Obama is going to have to take the moderate, centrist stance if he wants to get anything done, and IMO he seems to know that already.

Still, I'm like you. I don't trust the Dems any more than I trust the Pubs, and the last thing I want is a one-party state. OTOH, I can't support the Pubs when they refuse to be fiscally conservative, when they insist on putting their religion into the laws, and when they insist on ignoring our country's internal problems for the sake of pursuing unnecessary and costly wars. Of course, then there's the issue that nothing is ever their fault.... sigh.

What I would like to see is the Pubs move back to more of a Goldwater/Buckley conservatism. I'm not convinced that's gonna happen though, especially with Rush&co calling for an "ideological purity." So maybe a 3rd party rises up or is created to fill the gap. That would be interesting to see in our lifetimes.

The problem with a third party, as I see it, is that one is needed for the middle and that forming it would advantage one of the extremes. The only way I can see it happening is if both parties split and the center were to coalesce.

But even that could leave us nowhere but in the middle of muddle.

Let's take welfare as an example. The right wants no reward without work. They are assholes whose self image is built on the illusion they have worked for what they've got. They can't feature that if they were born genetically identical in Africa they would own bags and bags of dirt.

The liberal believes in redemption when people are given a chance. The legacy is generations on welfare.

The answer, as with all real answers lies is a resolution of opposites that comes from higher understanding:

You can and should help people caught in the cycle of downward self hate, by teaching them how to fish for themselves without their knowing the intention. You have to create situations where people, via their own efforts, can do something to help themselves. You have to provide opportunity, and it has to be real. This is illustrated in the story of stone soup.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
The GOP of todays deadliest weakness is that if it runs hard on its ideological agenda. This includes the various social issues it uses as window dressing for its economic core mission. It loses out because the majority of Americans have moved beyond the cultural conception of the GOP. Most of America is not as, homogeneous, militaristic, insular, as the GOP would like us to be. If we were, there would only be the GOP, Karl Rove's wet dream of the one-party state would have been in place a long time ago. The GOP alienates most Americans when it runs hardest on its ideological agenda.

The problem the GOP has run into is that it remains mired in a mythical 1950s or perhaps the 1850s, with regard to some of its economic and social issues, or even 1750s, if you take their Unitary Executive Theory as an un-American, pre-democratic conception of unaccountable, concentrated executive power, being a tightly-disciplined ideological engine that does not tolerate dissent within its ranks - this lets it trumpet loudly and with focus, but increasingly the national conversation has moved beyond it. Much in the way the rest of the First World are moving ahead, leaving the USA behind - from unilateralism to multilateralism. The conversations will go on, and the GOP's standard bromides of condemnation, accusation, hysteria, paranoia, purging, and witch-hunting - those leave them largely out of step with most Americans, who increasingly see the need for dialogue instead of diatribes, democracy over demagoguery, diplomacy in place of defensiveness.

In a more tolerant America, a more diverse America, a more democratic America, the Republicans are doomed - their Brimstone Base gulped down the Kool-Aid, believed their party's own lies, and insisted that the GOP follow the agenda their leadership was only cynically invoking to snooker those benighted people into voting against their class interests to begin with. The smart Republicans are abandoning ship, while the majority of them are still clogging drunkenly down in steerage, marveling at their unsinkable ship's intelligent design, ignoring the icy waters pouring in from all corners, confident that God will save them.

Instead in the US, the right wing republican machine has become a horribly shrill echo chamber inhabited by men and women who seem to love nothing more than the lure of easy certainty, and the emotional evacuative thrill of projecting all their inner demons onto 'liberals' in a kind of theological frenzy.

Maybe a thoughtful person drawn to right wing talk radio would find that they weren't quite "cutting' it", rising above all the noise and thus would harm their own career prospects. But thinking of Limbaugh and Hannity, a vicious circle is created. Did they become victims of an entertainment culture that required them to jettison intellectual honesty, fairness and politeness or was their meteoric rise a product of their own flawed characters? either way, they were either corrupted or they themselves corrupted national discourse.

The GOP should take a long, hard look at President Eisenhower and see what made it possible to be a Republican president in an era of Democratic predominance. They should try to conserve a few things, manage the government efficiently with cost-cutting in mind, have a cautious foreign policy which stresses alliances, diplomacy, and the occasional dirty trick over massive armed intervention, and make sure tax income matches federal outlays, and enforce the laws. This might not make the base happy, but if would get them in the White House and keep them in the White House, because it's the kind of center/right policies that, if Peggy N. had a brain, she'd understand that Americans do want.

 

quest55720

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2004
1,339
0
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
I could give a shit less about the GOP. They have abandoned my ideals and core beliefs on the fiscal side. I am hoping a new party emerges from the ashes of the GOP that can truly hold to the conservative ideals that so many "Republicans" hold dear.

The new power base is forming around Sarah Palin. We need to stop this.

There is not stopping it will be official tonight after McCain gets destroyed. All that will be left will be the social conservatives. The rest jumped ship over the last month. There is hope in 8-12 years. I figure Obama and his socialist friends will screw things up so bad that fiscal conservatism will make a huge come back in 8-12 years. Palin will get her chance in 4 years and lose. After that the moderates and fiscal conservatives can make a push to take the party back.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Not sure where it goes from here. Ideally we need to get back to small govt, low taxation and fiscal conservatism.

The problem presented however is I dont believe the American populace believes in that anymore. Which means the Republicans are going to head right along with it. They will continue to publish their own brand of big govt. Probably some kind of neo-con branch.

The thing that truely gets me right now is the disconnect between blacks+hispanics and republicans. All of them are typically socially conservative. The republicans have completely dropped the ball with these demographics. At this point the only way they can look to the future is to dump the extreme right bigots. If they dont, the democrats will continue to dominate. There is definately a place for fiscal conservativism among these demographics. Not all of these people want to leech off the system.

I think one of the best ways for republicans to get this going to is to openly talk immigration reform over the next 2-4 years. McCain while not the ideal candidate did have a comprehensive immigration policy. One that I believe if tweaked could sit well with hispanics. The bottom line is we are making it entirely too difficult for people to legally come here. The only option they have is to jump the fence and live in the under culture. The under culture helps nobody. Push a legitimate and realistic path to legal status. And make the case logically and I think the conservatives will come around while opening up a line of communication with the 2nd largest demographic in the country.

The people who hold onto their racial bias we dont need in the party anyways. It hurts your campaigns to have dipshits screaming racists comments at a rally. It conjures up images of the Nazis at the Nuremberg rallies. That doesnt sit well with the moderates.

They have 2 years to align themselves or we are looking at a possiblity of a single party govt. Which is terrifying imo.

Pretty much agree. The race war the far right keeps stirring up is not doing the party any favors. Hispanics, with their natural religious/conservative values should be absolute no-brainers to get into the republican coalition - but the far righters won't let them in.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Snoop
For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.

I totally agree. The GOP needs to reinvent itself around pragmatic problem solving and drop the social agenda at the national level.

If the GOP did this, it could be unstoppable - it would bring in huge #s of dems and independents. I don't see it happening though. It would require dropping the evangelical vote which they count on too much.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
I have no idea how to convince the people that look to Obama for their mortgage and gas to vote Republican.

Also, what the fuck does it even matter anymore anyway. The Republican party, as already stated, is only considered the conservative party these days because you can't call the democrats conservative.

And I would also like to see the end of this religious crap, can someone explain to me what place it has in politics?
 

venkman

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2007
4,950
11
81
As a centrist minded independent who tends to favor the right but can't stand their holly roller social conservatism that wants to tell me how to live my life and how to spend my money, I choose to vote left, who only wants to tell me how to spend my money.

Saw yeah, I think the GOP is headed for a serious split with the Social Conservatives becoming their own party and the remainder merging with the Liberterians/Centrists like myself and veering left of center on social issues.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
2
71
Fiscally responsible? LOL.....That is something for campaign speeches.

I think the last fiscally responsible Republican President was Calvin Coolidge.

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Snoop
For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.

I totally agree. The GOP needs to reinvent itself around pragmatic problem solving and drop the social agenda at the national level.

If the GOP did this, it could be unstoppable - it would bring in huge #s of dems and independents. I don't see it happening though. It would require dropping the evangelical vote which they count on too much.

This is what the GOP needs to learn from the last 12 years. The social issues of America will not change. Look at abortion. ~12 years of Congressional and Executive GOP and nothing has changed. They need to learn that they are sacrificing everything just by supporting something they can't change. The approach they need to take is to have a mirror stance on all social issues as the democrats, and only differ on the economic aspect. That way, people will have no choice to vote on the social issue and will only be voting on economic ones. That would tip the scale back to GOP.

As for quelling the "base" you have to approach the social issues carefully. For example, on abortion, communicate that it is futile to change anything at the legislative level, so we have accept it's legality BUT if you really gave a shit about abortion work to REDUCE the number of abortions each year through education and economic prosperity.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: Genx87
Not sure where it goes from here. Ideally we need to get back to small govt, low taxation and fiscal conservatism.

The problem presented however is I dont believe the American populace believes in that anymore. Which means the Republicans are going to head right along with it. They will continue to publish their own brand of big govt. Probably some kind of neo-con branch.

The thing that truely gets me right now is the disconnect between blacks+hispanics and republicans. All of them are typically socially conservative. The republicans have completely dropped the ball with these demographics. At this point the only way they can look to the future is to dump the extreme right bigots. If they dont, the democrats will continue to dominate. There is definately a place for fiscal conservativism among these demographics. Not all of these people want to leech off the system.

I think one of the best ways for republicans to get this going to is to openly talk immigration reform over the next 2-4 years. McCain while not the ideal candidate did have a comprehensive immigration policy. One that I believe if tweaked could sit well with hispanics. The bottom line is we are making it entirely too difficult for people to legally come here. The only option they have is to jump the fence and live in the under culture. The under culture helps nobody. Push a legitimate and realistic path to legal status. And make the case logically and I think the conservatives will come around while opening up a line of communication with the 2nd largest demographic in the country.

The people who hold onto their racial bias we dont need in the party anyways. It hurts your campaigns to have dipshits screaming racists comments at a rally. It conjures up images of the Nazis at the Nuremberg rallies. That doesnt sit well with the moderates.

They have 2 years to align themselves or we are looking at a possiblity of a single party govt. Which is terrifying imo.

Pretty much agree. The race war the far right keeps stirring up is not doing the party any favors. Hispanics, with their natural religious/conservative values should be absolute no-brainers to get into the republican coalition - but the far righters won't let them in.

republicans spendt 40 years playing division politics, finally they divided everyone against them.
 

Kanalua

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2001
4,860
2
81
A return to conservatism...with folks like Jindal, Romney, Palin, etc. coming to the lead of the party...

if McCain loses...big strong push to 2012 on the socialist government BHO and Congressional Dems pull over the eyes of America...

McCain wins...nothing really changes in the party...
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,379
47,660
136
For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.



No need to rephrase what Snoop said, that spells it out perfectly for me as well. :thumbsup:

"Dumping" is definitely the right way to phrase that as well... ;)

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,379
47,660
136
A return to conservatism...with folks like Jindal, Romney, Palin, etc. coming to the lead of the party...




That wouldn't be a return to conservatism, just stupidity. Do us both a favor and raise your standards. :|
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
As much as I just voted for Obama, I'd vote for a republican if they shifted further right - financially. I'd prefer if they moved a little more left socially too.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: loki8481
all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

Nawh, maybe they'll just produce a younger more energetic candidate. Clearly Obama is getting a lot of votes because of his "energy"

I'm not sure if that's good, bad, or ugly. But I bet that the next republican candidate is at least in his late 40's.

Sarah Palin?
 

Firebot

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2005
1,476
2
0
Dividing a country with a 2 party system simply does not work. It does not matter what the GOP does, it will never speak for Americans or have a mandate of the people. Until you fix the system, you cannot fix the party.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
The Republicans basically need to merge with the Libertarian party. America is ready for socially progressive + fiscally conservative leaders. The leaders of the GOP have their heads wedged firmly up their asses.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,500
0
0
The GOP had better get their shit together; they need to return to low spending, low taxes, libertarian, smaller government/state's rights type rhetoric and policy.

They need to get rid of neoconservatism and excessive evangelicalism
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,750
6,764
126
Clearly, when McSame knew he could never win, he chose Palin as his running mate to destroy the evangelicals by pinning the blame on her. But I don't think it will work. The thing about fanatics is that they are certain.
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
0
0
I think it's clear that the American Conservative movement has been repudiated with the finality of a slammed door. What began with smaller, smarter government under Reagan went off the rails completely with the Neo Cons and their big government bastardization of the philosophy.
The pendulum has swung back with this election.