The future of the GOP

[Arkaign]

First, let me please say to try to keep from poo-flinging in this thread if at all possible. I know this can and will be a contentious subject.

From all reasonable expectations, the GOP seems poised for a defeat today. There are a wealth of reasons for this, but what's done is done. The question is where do they go from here?

Personally, I think McCain still had a shot right up until he tapped Palin as his Veep. I think that social conservatives turn off too many of the centrist-minded independents that either side needs in order to win convincingly. Bush won in '00 and '04 for many reasons, I'd say '00 people were a bit exhausted with the Dems, and Gore just wasn't that exciting. Bush remained personable, and appealed as a moderate (his policies have been all over the place). In '04, he squeaked out a win against Kerry, which was impressive considering he had 4 years of screwing up already. Kerry was just an absolutely terrible candidate though, in almost every respect.

This time around, people have seemed to expect more from their candidates. Any way you look at it, McCain is better than Bush, and Obama better than Kerry. The difference really lies in how they appeal to the moderates and independents.

What say you?

 

[blackangst1]

I think, in alot of ways simililar to the Dems, the GOP is fractured. There are too many in the party with opposing views (as there are in the Dem crowd). Personally I'd like to see some sort of centrist party to represent those closer to the middle.

As far as the party goes, they will need to find a way to pull together and figure out what they represent. I wouldnt say the far far right is representitive of the party, just like the far far left is representitive of the dems. But the dissention is very strong.

I dunno.

 

[nageov3t]

all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

 

[NoStateofMind]

It's already moved to the left (fiscally), as we see with the neocon movement. That's the majority of the party unfortunately and I don't see them heading back to whence they came (conservative). Most think of Republicans as Conservatives which would be true in name only now. It seems both party's offer the same thing now just differing ways to attain the same objective. How the GOP comes back is pretty damned simple. Run on Conservative values and ACTUALLY PRACTICE IT. Most don't trust them anymore and really, who can blame them?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: loki8481
all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

Nawh, maybe they'll just produce a younger more energetic candidate. Clearly Obama is getting a lot of votes because of his "energy"

I'm not sure if that's good, bad, or ugly. But I bet that the next republican candidate is at least in his late 40's.

 

[Snoop]

For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: loki8481
all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

Ouch, if they do that, it's gonna be a long, dry spell for the GOP.

Like it or not, the nation is moving towards a moderate/progressive stance in terms of attitude towards policy. The average person is abhorrent against both hard left and hard right stances, with the exception of the hardcore partisans from both sides.

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: loki8481
all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

I'd like to see the opposite happen, GOP minus the religious nutters might actually go somewhere.

 

[First]

They'll move left on both social and economic issues. They have to, no choice with Hispanics voting Dem overwhelming and predicted to make up more of the population than whites by 2050. Repubs have to start thinking about new constituencies. Palin won't last a second in this new American climate, she's not the future of the party and hopefully the fringe right is banished for good along with her. That said, it's going to be very scary if far left guys take too much control in DC, and if Obama is worth a damn he'll free himself of that crap and be moderate and work with the right.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Snoop
For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.

Sounds good to me.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: loki8481
all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

Nawh, maybe they'll just produce a younger more energetic candidate. Clearly Obama is getting a lot of votes because of his "energy"

I'm not sure if that's good, bad, or ugly. But I bet that the next republican candidate is at least in his late 40's.

hopefully.

I think the 2012 primaries will be Crist v Sanford v Palin

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I love to laugh at these threads by and for liberals on what the GOP should/will do....

 

[jpeyton]

Chances are it will move further right, since the Democratic gains in Congress will come at the cost of moderate Republicans.

The entire country, including the quickly expanding immigrant population, is moving center-left. This means the Republicans will become a permanent minority party within 1-2 election cycles.

The electoral map is changing. Border states in the SW and their HUGE Latino populations will turn blue in a decade...even Texas.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
First, let me please say to try to keep from poo-flinging in this thread if at all possible. I know this can and will be a contentious subject.

From all reasonable expectations, the GOP seems poised for a defeat today. There are a wealth of reasons for this, but what's done is done. The question is where do they go from here?

Personally, I think McCain still had a shot right up until he tapped Palin as his Veep. I think that social conservatives turn off too many of the centrist-minded independents that either side needs in order to win convincingly. Bush won in '00 and '04 for many reasons, I'd say '00 people were a bit exhausted with the Dems, and Gore just wasn't that exciting. Bush remained personable, and appealed as a moderate (his policies have been all over the place). In '04, he squeaked out a win against Kerry, which was impressive considering he had 4 years of screwing up already. Kerry was just an absolutely terrible candidate though, in almost every respect.

This time around, people have seemed to expect more from their candidates. Any way you look at it, McCain is better than Bush, and Obama better than Kerry. The difference really lies in how they appeal to the moderates and independents.

What say you?

Ok, I am going to leave the bolded part alone.

As I have said before, I think the McCain campaign was hostage to the Republican National Committee from which McCain was desperate for money. I think the RNC decided that no matter if they lost the election their goal was to keep their base. Hence, they forced many of McCains choices, though not the specific Palin choice. I just think McCain is a shoot from the hip guy who needed a rabid right winger to appease the RNC and just made an ill informed choice.

I also think, once locked into this 'keep the base' strategy the only thing the Repubs and McCain could do was veer as far right as they could to try and energize the turnout of the base. Hence, the attack ads.

 

[ProfJohn]

Move back to the right.

Look at the main complaints about Bush and the Republicans of the last 8 years.

1. The war
2. Poor economy
3. Over spending

The war is over and not much you can do as a party on that issue, it will be another 20 years before either party makes a mistake like that again.

The poor economy is more about the economic cycle than anything else, with a fair bit of greed and over reaching by the banks leading to a huge mess. Neither party had any suggestions to prevent the problems, they both just reacted to it after the fact.

Spending: this is the big one. You vote Republican for two reasons, conservative social issues and conservative spending. We got the social issues down, but we screwed up big time on the spending. The party needs to re-find its fiscal conservative way. According to one pollster more people believe that Obama will give them a tax cut than believe McCain will give them one. When that happens you have a BIG problem.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Originally posted by: loki8481
all bets are off, but I think we'll see the GOP blame this loss on the fact that McCain wasn't a line-towing born-again and get deeper into bed with the christian right.

I'd like to see the opposite happen, GOP minus the religious nutters might actually go somewhere.

Me too, I might actually call myself a Republican if they dropped jesus.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Neither of the parties is worth a shit. If we can't redo it from the ground up the next best would be to split parties along theory lines.

Republicans should split to Libertarians, Republicans, and Constitution. Libertarians are looking for individual rights above all, Republicans looking for state rights over all, and Constitution wants a theocracy.

Democrats should split to Green, Socialist, and Democrat. Greens are environmentalists, Socialists are, well, socialists, and Democrats are looking for strong, proactive central government without the socialist economic overtones.

Those splits would allow a MUCH closer fit with individual political stances and greatly strengthen each segment.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I love to laugh at these threads by and for liberals on what the GOP should/will do....

I'm a social libertarian with extremely conservative fiscal ideals. Fuck you if you think that only a liberal would care about the future of the GOP. It's patently obvious that the Democrats are kicking ass right now, and what for? Why is actual conservatism a bad thing?

Are you a neocon?

 

[winnar111]

They'll be fine. The Democrats eventually rebounded after Carter.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Chances are it will move further right, since the Democratic gains in Congress will come at the cost of moderate Republicans.

The entire country, including the quickly expanding immigrant population, is moving center-left. This means the Republicans will become a permanent minority party within 1-2 election cycles.

The electoral map is changing. Border states in the SW and their HUGE Latino populations will turn blue in a decade...even Texas.

And change their slow moving trend of centrist? You have no idea where the GOP is at.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
First, let me please say to try to keep from poo-flinging in this thread if at all possible. I know this can and will be a contentious subject.

From all reasonable expectations, the GOP seems poised for a defeat today. There are a wealth of reasons for this, but what's done is done. The question is where do they go from here?

Personally, I think McCain still had a shot right up until he tapped Palin as his Veep. I think that social conservatives turn off too many of the centrist-minded independents that either side needs in order to win convincingly. Bush won in '00 and '04 for many reasons, I'd say '00 people were a bit exhausted with the Dems, and Gore just wasn't that exciting. Bush remained personable, and appealed as a moderate (his policies have been all over the place). In '04, he squeaked out a win against Kerry, which was impressive considering he had 4 years of screwing up already. Kerry was just an absolutely terrible candidate though, in almost every respect.

This time around, people have seemed to expect more from their candidates. Any way you look at it, McCain is better than Bush, and Obama better than Kerry. The difference really lies in how they appeal to the moderates and independents.

What say you?

I find it hard to predict. Everyone, when the party is doing badly, thinks it's the fault of the people who disagree with them and they want to push harder in their own direction.

History does not provide a clear guide. The terrible Richard Nixon was re-elected in the largest landslide in history at the time, debunking any claims to judgement by the American voters. When the Republicans were violently pushed to the sidelines after the Great Depression, they were unable to regain power with the 'same old' appeals to the reasons why the rich should rule the world, and they were unable to regain power by making concessions to the democrats.

What ended up working - unfortunately - was the 'red scare'. It wasn't pretty, but it got them back in power in Congress (Ike didn't need the red scare to win the presidency).

I've long said that the modern Republican party is little more than the wealthy funding the Noise Machine made up of ideologues whose skill is in fooling voters. They've made alliancs with whoever needed - religious right, Libertarians - to get power based mostly on not being the terrible democrats, which is one reason they crash badly when they do so badly (how bad can the Democrats be, voters ask).

Politics has 'vicious cycles'; th emore the rich gain power, the more they use that power to further gain more power. When they lose power, that'll probably be cyclical, too.

But they have things so incredibly well now that I doubt they will lose power. The thing I think Republicans need to worry about is that they're an aging whore, and daddy moneybags has a young new mistress in his sights, the Democratic Party. If the rich can conquer the Democrats - and they're on the way - there is no serious opposition left.

This is why I say the most important political issue for Americans today is to protect the progressive wing of the Democratic party and prevent the takeover by corporatists.

For Republicans, what will be the new 'red scare'? Hard to say. Maybe they'll find a charismatic candidate (the 2008 crew was a travesty), or an effective message.

I don't think it's clear yet whether they're go right or left - only that the right and left will each push to go their direction.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I love to laugh at these threads by and for liberals on what the GOP should/will do....

I'm a social libertarian with extremely conservative fiscal ideals. Fuck you if you think that only a liberal would care about the future of the GOP. It's patently obvious that the Democrats are kicking ass right now, and what for? Why is actual conservatism a bad thing?

Are you a neocon?

"only" no, I don't "only" think liberals "care". However, I find these threads here hilarious because obviously the left wants the GOP to move more towards them. Just like those of us on the right would like the Dems to move right to be more like us.

So again, I laugh at these threads started by and for liberals.(insert blah blah blah about you being "libertarian" :roll: or others whining about they are "independents" :roll: )

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Evan
They'll move left on both social and economic issues. They have to, no choice with Hispanics voting Dem overwhelming and predicted to make up more of the population than whites by 2050. Repubs have to start thinking about new constituencies.

I think you are wrong.

1. You can't move further left that the Democrats thus you can never move far enough to the left to get those voters. All you do by moving left is lose your base.

2. Hispanic voters tend to be socially conservative. What killed the Republicans this time around was their anti-immigration stance.

Also, let's not forget that the Democrats will do the same thing the Republicans did, which is over step their bounds. People are voting for an Obama who acts like a middle of the road politician, they are NOT voting for Pelosi and Ried who are far to the left. When they elect middle of the road Obama but end up with lefty policies I think they will not be happy and will swing back the other way.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Snoop
For me, I would love to see the repubs move to the center on social issues and a swing FAR to the right on fiscal policy. Also, dump the religious right.

Sounds good to me.

I'd vote for that Republican party. Too bad it's a pipe dream.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I love to laugh at these threads by and for liberals on what the GOP should/will do....

I'm a social libertarian with extremely conservative fiscal ideals. Fuck you if you think that only a liberal would care about the future of the GOP. It's patently obvious that the Democrats are kicking ass right now, and what for? Why is actual conservatism a bad thing?

Are you a neocon?

"only" no, I don't "only" think liberals "care". However, I find these threads here hilarious because obviously the left wants the GOP to move more towards them. Just like those of us on the right would like the Dems to move right to be more like us.

So again, I laugh at these threads started by and for liberals.(insert blah blah blah about you being "libertarian" :roll: or others whining about they are "independents" :roll: )

God damn you're an annoying trollish jerk.

If you'd paid attention at ALL, you'd see my praise for Reagan, for Eisenhower, for conservative fiscal policy, and for true conservatives like William F. Buckley.

The ONLY people who truly care about what's going to happen to the GOP are those who actually want a conservative party to represent them. Today's GOP isn't doing it.

Get this : we don't want a fiscally liberal, socially fascist party. That's just not working for us. We want : low spending, low taxes, responsible leadership. That means if war is what is needed (Afghanistan), kick their fucking asses. If war is uncalled for (Iraq), go back to the table.