The future direction of the new unity Israeli goverenment--we may soon know.

Discussion in 'Politics and News' started by Lemon law, May 11, 2012.

  1. Jhhnn

    Jhhnn Lifer

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    Excellent link. Thank you. As the author notes, endless occupation is Bibi's obvious aim entirely, stripped of all the posturing & lies.
     
  2. TastesLikeChicken

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    No, it's not assertion or evasion. It's just stating the obvious, Jhhnn. Any time the Pals' recurring failure to accept a State of Palestine over the years is mentioned you dance around the issue or completely avoid it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict#Oslo_Accords_.281993.29

    "Robert Malley, special assistant to US President Bill Clinton for Arab–Israeli Affairs, has confirmed that while Barak made no formal written offer to Arafat, the US did present concepts for peace which were considered by the Israeli side yet left unanswered by Arafat "the Palestinians’ principal failing is that from the beginning of the Camp David summit onward they were unable either to say yes to the American ideas or to present a cogent and specific counterproposal of their own".[9] Consequently, there are different accounts of the proposals considered."

    In the Camp David Summit that followed:

    "No tenable solution was crafted which would satisfy both Israeli and Palestinian demands, even under intense US pressure. Clinton blamed Arafat for the failure of the Camp David Summit."

    The Palestinians clearly have no intention of accepting a two-state solution anyway. It's why they have not negotiated with any honesty or real intent during any previous negotiations. Israel is tired of trying to drag that horse to water. If the Palestinians want to play that game, fine. It's no skin off of Israel's back. The Palestinians are only hurting themselves by their actions.
     
  3. Jhhnn

    Jhhnn Lifer

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    None of that counters Bibi's boast that he killed the Oslo accords, which he did, or that the Israelis' current tack is to disregard all of that, anyway. They're the ones who gain from the straddle, not the pals, and they're the ones with reason to maintain it, essentially endless occupation & expropriation via settlements.

    William Kristol laid it out in plain terms- the Netanyahu govt intends no withdrawal, no peace under any circumstances. It's the way they want it, the way they've wanted it from the beginning, other than the actual existence of the pals, and they'll resort to any means necessary to maintain the status quo. Well, with more settlements, obviously. Take, take, take, them blame your victims, and actually end up with people who believe you're doing something else entirely.
     
  4. cybrsage

    cybrsage Lifer

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    When one side never intended to follow the accords, the other side eventually says to heck with it and kills it off completely. No outrage found.
     
  5. Jhhnn

    Jhhnn Lifer

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    So, uhh, which side has the power, and which side exploits the situation to take from the other?
     
  6. TastesLikeChicken

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    Jhhnn apparently doesn't care about that. He'd rather ignore the complete obstinance and unreasonable dealings of the Palestinians for decades and pretend that, suddenly, the Pals are ready to bargain, only Netanyahu is standing in the way of a Palestinian State, and Israel is 100% the problem. It is attitudes like his that are the entire problem with the Israeli-Palestinian issue in the first place.
     
  7. Jhhnn

    Jhhnn Lifer

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    Like I said- which side has the power, and which side exploits the situation to take from the other?
     
  8. TastesLikeChicken

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    The answer to that is simple. The side that now has the power is the one that has endured repeated wars of aggression, suicide bombings, missile and mortar attacks against their civilian population, kidnappings, threats of annihilation, and an opposition that refuses to recognize their existance. They have endured that crap for decades yet people like you expect them to greet that kind of welcome with open arms and capitulate to unreasonable demands to even come to the bargaining table in the first place.

    The Palestinians have little power and that is completely of their own doing, much of it because of their own infighting and internal power struggles, as well as their fundy religious beliefs and the hatred that they continue to pass on to their progeny through media sources. They have repeatedly thrown away their chances yet people like you expect they should be allowed a do-over, as if politics is a video game where you can simply start anew. It doesn't work that way Jhhnn.
     
  9. Pr0d1gy

    Pr0d1gy Diamond Member

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    Yeah and none of these kings and churches ever modified the Bible. It is the exact text written 2000 years ago, right? If you believe that I have some ocean front property in Arizona that investment rating agencies will rate a AAA for you if you'd like to invest.
     
  10. Jhhnn

    Jhhnn Lifer

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    Heh. As if the carnage weren't completely lopsided in Israel's favor, as if the number of people "kidnapped" weren't enormously greater by Israel, and as if Israel acknowledges the Pals' right to self determination or territory in the slightest. As if the Pals routinely assassinate Israeli leaders as "radicals", rather than vice-versa. As if it weren't Bibi demanding a do-over with his whole "no preconditions" spiel.

    You just drag out the usual framing canards as if they were the truth, when they're just propaganda. Bibi's govt has no intention of doing anything other than continuing the occupation & taking more territory via settlements, squeezing the Pals into a smaller & smaller box. Their deeds tell us the truth, even as they speak in lies.
     
  11. Pr0d1gy

    Pr0d1gy Diamond Member

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    You really cannot blame the Isrealis. The radical Muslim countries make it very clear that they should own the holy land and that everyone in the world should become a Muslim. That is their base philosophy and given what the Isreali people have already been through over the last 5000 years or so I can hardly blame them for having a * you attitude when dealing with the other Mid-East countries.
     
  12. Jhhnn

    Jhhnn Lifer

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    We're talking about a population that's completely under Israeli control in the occupied territories, not other govts.
     
  13. cybrsage

    cybrsage Lifer

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    Actually, the dead sea scrolls have many copies of Isaiah which are nearly identical to the modern version. The differences are in insignificant items such as "an" "the" etc. Isaiah is MUCH older than 2000 years.

    I do suggest you return to school and take basic geography again, there has not been ocean front property in Arizona for a VERY long time.
     
  14. kylebisme

    kylebisme Diamond Member

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    They also have copies of Exodus Jeremiah, and Samuel which show notable differences, as mentioned here.
     
  15. cybrsage

    cybrsage Lifer

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    Awwww...it does not say what the differences are. I will have to look into it. Good stuff, and depending on what the differences are (and why), I may have to alter my position.
     
  16. Lemon law

    Lemon law Lifer

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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well TLC, at least you have defined your position, but your problem IMHO, is that the world simply does not work in the way YOU think it should.

    Maybe two US presidents in LBJ and Nixon, not exactly our sharpest two Presidential visionaries may have bet on Israel as a stabilizing force in the mid-east, but that jumped the shark at least 20 years ago.

    The collapse of the Soviet union 22 years ago was simply the USSR bowing to reality, the end of the former Apartheid government of South Africa was another example. As well as the British domination of India that ended in 1948 was similar.

    Yet you TLC stubbornly maintain, that Israel, a 6 million people nation, can somehow defy the moral outrage of a 6 billion people world.

    But why TLC should we debate it with you, when the judgment of history will decide the issue.
     
  17. TastesLikeChicken

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    lol. Coming from the King of failed predictions in P&N, your little diatribe carries no weight.

    Here's a little clue for you, LL. Stop trying to transpose your extreme personal distaste of Israel on the rest of the world and imagining they bear the same cross of hatefullness that you do. Stop trying to speak for them because you don't and you can't. Your personal type of outrage is confined to a very small subset of useful idiots in this world who whine on endlessly about Israel while pretending the Palestinians carry no responsibility for their condition.

    Consider what I've said above, recognize that you are in a tiny minority, and then attempt to take another look at the situation. It's doubtfull you can actually do that though because of the massive reality distortion field you confine yourself within. But at least give it a shot.
     
    #167 TastesLikeChicken, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  18. TastesLikeChicken

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    Keep telling yourself that it's ONLY Israel that is the problem Jhhnn. Whatever makes you feel better. Personally, those that are reasonable recognize that the problem exists on both sides and that the Pals have plenty of their own issues. It's a bit hilarious that you continuously focus only on Israel and pretend that everything is the sole fault of theirs; all while you accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you of propaganda and bias. That attitude is what has prolonged this problem as long as it has.