The full truth revealed: GTX480 is one power sucking monster --Fudzilla

[yh125d]

Why? Do you think I know something I shouldn't or something? Or should know something that I do not?

Creig alluded to you being under pressure by being affiliated with the focus group. You then alluded to him experiencing a similar kind of pressure, implying that you think he's affiliated with an ATI equivalent. Don't play dumb

 

[Keysplayr]

I spoke in no extremes or absolutes. You're not as dumb as you act keys, we both know that. I wasn't misunderstood, you knew exactly what I meant. I very explicitly stated that he had mixed up our two examples. You know that. You knew that. We both know you're trying to twist my words to make me seem noncredible to take the heat (pun intended) off of you, and I'm not falling for it.

But you're not credible. When you say something as ridiculous as "my light fixture in my 6x12 bathroom consisting of 5x60W bulb can raise my bathrooms temperature 10-15F in 15 minutes, what did you expect? You're INcredible.

 

[yh125d]

But you're not credible. When you say something as ridiculous as "my light fixture in my 6x12 bathroom consisting of 5x60W bulb can raise my bathrooms temperature 10-15F in 15 minutes, what did you expect? You're INcredible.

Anyone with a similar fixture can attest to how quickly they can heat up a bathroom.

http://www.lightfixturesbathroom.org/images/bathroom-light-fixtures.jpg

That type, 5x60w

 

[Keysplayr]

Creig alluded to you being under pressure by being affiliated with the focus group. You then alluded to him experiencing a similar kind of pressure, implying that you think he's affiliated with an ATI equivalent. Don't play dumb

And as I stated, I have no pressure at all. But I can't help but think that if Creig thinks I'm being pressured to post the way I do, it makes me believe that he knows what it's like to be pressured if he feels the only way I could possibly post the way I do, is at gunpoint (so to speak). And I've already explained that he could not possibly be an Nvidia Focus Group equivalent. So I said "No" to his question.

 

[NoQuarter]

Hmm, let see. The volumetric heat capacity of air is 0.001297 J/cm³K http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity

700W = 700 J / s

So we have 700 J / s * (0.001297 J/cm³K)^-1 = 539,707 cm³K/s

The room is 6'x'10'x8' so 72''x120''x96'' = 183cm x 305cm x 244 cm = 13,618,860 cm³

539,707 cm³K/s * (13,618,860 cm&#179^-1 = 0.039629381607564803515125348230322 K/s

0.039629381607564803515125348230322 K/s * 60s/min = 2,38 K/min

2,38 K/min * 15 min = 35.7K ... wow I must have made mistake

35.7K = 64.3F

Can someone locate my mistake? I know this implies a completely closed environment, and I did expect an increase, but not of that magnitude... it's just ridiculous.

I did my calculation off the weight of air using 1.012 specific heat capacity, and ended up with 63.6F in 15 minutes but I rounded off a few numbers during my calcs (and used room condition air instead of sea level) so it should be nearly the same results as yours. I don't know what's going on but our math indicates a death trap.

DO NOT PUT FERMI IN A BATHROOM.

 

[Creig]

Why? Do you think I know something I shouldn't or something? Or should know something that I do not?

(*sigh*) I was simply looking for clarification to this statement you made, nothing more:

I can't help thinking that if you think I'm being pressured, then you might be experiencing something like that yourself, which probably is a sucky feeling

Wouldn't it be easier to give a simple, straightforward answer instead of being deliberately vague and twisting people's words around so much?

 

[yh125d]

And as I stated, I have no pressure at all. But I can't help but think that if Creig thinks I'm being pressured to post the way I do, it makes me believe that he knows what it's like to be pressured if he feels the only way I could possibly post the way I do, is at gunpoint (so to speak). And I've already explained that he could not possibly be an Nvidia Focus Group equivalent. So I said "No" to his question.

Several people think you're pressured to post the way you do (some might not say pressured, obligated maybe). I prefer to think you're more delusional than coerced, since many people have an irrational love or hatred for or to specific brands.

 

[Keysplayr]

(*sigh*) I was simply looking for clarification to this statement you made, nothing more:

Wouldn't it be easier to give a simple, straightforward answer instead of being deliberately vague and twisting people's words around so much?

Don't presume then that I'm under pressure to post what I post just for the hell of it. You alluded to it for your own reasons, and the main reason was to introduce "doubt" in my comments. There was no other reason to do so.

You go on a light bulb tirade, I'll talk graphics cards and what they can do.
I know when to say when, and this is when.

 

[Schmide]

How do some of you handle it when the sun comes up? Seriously people, I just got finished running 480SLI in a Unigine loop for 12 hours in a 8x12 room in my basement with windows closed.

I don't think a couple hundred watts is going to make a major dent in the average temperature of a room. However depending where you live a basement could be 10-20f degrees cooler and dissipate much of the extra heat into the earth.

The only issue on my mind is the longevity of these chips, heat can be managed, extreme environments may raise the failure rate by some margin.

 

[minddripper]

Well, that's what the calculation is saying. However, we're not talking about a 700W PSU, we're talking about 700W being consumed, and the room's dimensions are quite small, but I must admit that I expected something more like 10K, hence why I think I've made a mistake, but I cannot find it. The Wikipedia value might also be off.

I think the math is good. I only see two problems and I think you are aware of them. You already mentioned the fact your solution assumes the room is perfectly insulated. The heat absorbed by the walls and the objects in the bathroom would not be trivial. The other thing is the constant you used was for dry air at sea level at 0 deg. C. The air in the bathroom would be at a higher elevation and temperature, which would affect its heat capacity, but I think the difference in humidity would cause the biggest change.

With those factors in consideration your number would be lower, but still quite high. Even my computer, which doesn't usually suck up much more than 100W when in use keeps its room (~20' x 20' x 9') 5-7 deg. F warmer than the setpoint of the thermostat. I don't leave it idling either, I put it to sleep. 700W in a bathroom is serious business.

 

[EarthwormJim]

I did my calculation off the weight of air using 1.012 specific heat capacity, and ended up with 63.6F in 15 minutes but I rounded off a few numbers during my calcs (and used room condition air instead of sea level) so it should be nearly the same results as yours. I don't know what's going on but our math indicates a death trap.

DO NOT PUT FERMI IN A BATHROOM.

There's nothing wrong with the math. Fermi would never be put in an empty room with a void surrounding it. As the air would warm, the furniture (or bathroom fixtures ), the walls, the ceiling and the floor would all suck heat away. Those have quite a bit more mass than the air, so they would take longer to heat up.

Also adjacent rooms and possibly the outside environment (if it's colder than the "Fermi Bathroom") would draw heat away.

 

[yh125d]

I think I helped invent a new torture method


"Tell us who the terrorist is, or we'll lock you in a bathroom with a fermi SLI rig for an hour"

 

[Skurge]

I think I helped invent a new torture method


"Tell us who the terrorist is, or we'll lock you in a bathroom with a fermi SLI rig for an hour"

"Nooooo!!! the geometry is so tessellated I can't bear to look at it any more"

 

[thilanliyan]

Hmm, let see. The volumetric heat capacity of air is 0.001297 J/cm³K http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity

700W = 700 J / s

So we have 700 J / s * (0.001297 J/cm³K)^-1 = 539,707 cm³K/s

The room is 6'x'10'x8' so 72''x120''x96'' = 183cm x 305cm x 244 cm = 13,618,860 cm³

539,707 cm³K/s * (13,618,860 cm&#179^-1 = 0.039629381607564803515125348230322 K/s

0.039629381607564803515125348230322 K/s * 60s/min = 2,38 K/min

2,38 K/min * 15 min = 35.7K ... wow I must have made mistake

35.7K = 64.3F

Can someone locate my mistake? I know this implies a completely closed environment, and I did expect an increase, but not of that magnitude... it's just ridiculous.

Assuming the heat capacity number is right, I think the calculation is fine. In a normal environment where heat is conducted out of the room the increase would be much less. Also, the humidity of the air (water can hold a lot of heat) would lessen the impact as well I think.

 

[Shilohen]

There's nothing wrong with the math. Fermi would never be put in an empty room with a void surrounding it. As the air would warm, the furniture (or bathroom fixtures ), the walls, the ceiling and the floor would all suck heat away. Those have quite a bit more mass than the air, so they would take longer to heat up.

Also adjacent rooms and possibly the outside environment (if it's colder than the "Fermi Bathroom") would draw heat away.

Heat capacity is not directly linked to the mass, but for the sake of the discussion, we can assume so. The furniture would eat up some energy, but not dissipate it. Also, heat propagate in air faster than in the furniture because of convection. Therefore, the heating would not be as fast, but would still be non negligible. The walls, however, could dissipate some of the heat. We could try to get the thermal conductivity of the wall and calculate a heat gradient knowing the temperature outside the walls (thus knowing delta T), but conductivity is not the main mean of heat movement on earth, convection is. I think simply opening the door would dissipate a non trivial amount of heat as an air current would be created between the cooler air outside and the warmed, thus more pressured (PV = nRT), air in the room.

Strangely, I kind of miss thermodynamic exams.

 

[thilanliyan]

Strangely, I kind of miss thermodynamic exams.

That kind of thermodynamics (heat flow with conduction, convection, radiation, etc.) is alright...but the thermo in grad school is not. Put it this way...the midterm and final exam averages were ~44% and ~53% for the course I took...thankfully they bell curve the marks lol.

If you learn it well though it's incredibly powerful IMO.

 

[konakona]

The sun doesn't sound like a jet engine. Yeah, some of the power arguments are ridiculous, but all that extra power translates into higher noise levels. This can be objectively proven and cannot be debated away:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/747/page1.html

At load, a single GTX480 is louder than either a 5970 or a 5870 crossfire. Its load noise levels are not comparable to a single 5870 by any stretch of the imagination. We can see objective measurements that back these claims.

Those that try to brush away this fact with comments like "you can hear both cards under load" are simply being disingenuous.

GTX480 SLI is off the charts, being described as "really too noisy in load and disturbing at idle". The objective measurements again back these claims.

If I got the cards for free then I might be more tolerant of their noise levels, but if I’m paying for them, it's unacceptable. A GTX480 is not faster than a 5970 or a 5870 CF, so why is it louder?

This. I just think some people are quite obtuse when it comes to noise levels, or they have convinced themselves about it. To be fair though, if you are making a serious financial commitment as to buying a $500 video card, might as well spend a bit more on a water cooling setup. That will most likely help you with overclocking too, except watercooling isn't exactly worry-free. It would be ideal if you already have some WC circuit on the cpu side, so that you are already doing your part for maintenance and keep thing running safe.

 

[NIGELG]

This. I just think some people are quite obtuse when it comes to noise levels, or they have convinced themselves about it. To be fair though, if you are making a serious financial commitment as to buying a $500 video card, might as well spend a bit more on a water cooling setup. That will most likely help you with overclocking too, except watercooling isn't exactly worry-free. It would be ideal if you already have some WC circuit on the cpu side, so that you are already doing your part for maintenance and keep thing running safe.

When someone spend 500 bones for a videocard they just might 'convince' themselves the card is not that noisy...who can blame them... but it's a big reason why I tend to believe reputable hardware sites' reviews instead of forum members

 

[waffleironhead]

Several people think you're pressured to post the way you do (some might not say pressured, obligated maybe). I prefer to think you're more delusional than coerced, since many people have an irrational love or hatred for or to specific brands.

I'm not sure about the pressure part, but i assume he gets a list of talking points from his handlers. Things to push, rumors to quash, features to brag up, etc. I guess the obligation comes in as its in his best interest to cheerlead for the green team. Sometimes I wish I could set him to ignore.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Yikes, you guys are nuts. It's as simple as this.

If your room's temperature isn't easily regulated and you use Card A (warmer) instead of Card B (cooler) it's going to increase the room temperature more to a degree that may or may not become a comfort issue (variables).

If your room's temp is easily regulated then it won't really matter what you use. You'll likely use more juice to keep it regulated with Card A, but that's not the issue at hand (even though this thread *was* about power draw).

Clear enough?