The full truth revealed: GTX480 is one power sucking monster --Fudzilla

[Keysplayr]

It's so nice that you can easily take into account all different sizes of rooms, varying thicknesses of insulation in the walls, ceiling heights, room locations, etc and come to the inescapable conclusion that everybody is "blowing this out of proportion" and that "It's getting really ridiculous now".

I noticed that you said you have your setup in your basement. Tell me, does it usually seem cooler in your basement than upstairs? Isn't it likely that the concrete blocks and cement floor act as heatsinks and transfer ambient heat in your basement directly to the colder underground soil? You don't think that could possibly have anything to do with your relatively stable room temps despite dumping an extra 700W of heat into the room? (BTW, 700W is approaching space heater levels of heat production)

http://www.heater-store.com/reflective_heater_soleus_ms_09_46_prd1.htm

Not everybody games in their basement. My gaming room is roughly 8x12 as well, but it is upstairs. I usually have the ceiling fan on when gaming, and yet I still find myself having to open a window after gaming for a couple hours because it begins to get uncomfortably warm. I probably wouldn't have to open a window if I were able to leave the door open, but my wife is a light sleeper, so I keep the door closed so I don't wake her.

Try to realize that not everybody has an identical setup and that while you may not have heat issues when gaming, others actually might.

Thank you Creig. Absolutely perfect example of what I was talking about. Would you like me to break through my walls and measure the R-rating of my insulation for you?
How far will you go? Heat and power draw are the only negatives for GF100, and as I have read in another forum, it's no surprise this is the area you are focusing on.
And now that you've acknowledged that some of these arguments are ridiculous, you shift to (hmmm, what else is left?) Noise.
Noise, yet another "issue" blown out of proportion. The "Jet engine" sound is with fans at 85-100% set manually. For the most part, on GTX470 at least, gets as high as 79% when really pushed. You can definitely hear it if you turn off your speakers or take off your headphones, but other than that.....

What's next? Price?

Why don't you try discussing the pros of the GF100 line now that you've completely exhausted your arsenal on the negatives?
Why not discuss the negatives of the 5xxx series? Can you bring yourself to do that? I certainly don't deny that GF100 runs hotter, draws more power, and have noisier fans than the 5xxx series. Those are the only flaws, and that is what your sticking to.
Be refreshing. Bend over backwards and actually say something good about GF100, because they are very good cards. So are the 5xxx series.

 

[Lonyo]

Thank you Creig. Absolutely perfect example of what I was talking about. Would you like me to break through my walls and measure the R-rating of my insulation for you?
How far will you go? Heat and power draw are the only negatives for GF100, and as I have read in another forum, it's no surprise this is the area you are focusing on.

I would like to add "in the US" to that. And remove heat (since heat is a function of power draw and design choice). And maybe add availability?

As in, "Power draw is the only negative for GF100 in the US." Whether it runs at 50c or 90c doesn't matter as long as that's within the operational parameters of the chip. I'm on an Atom netbook and the CPU fan only kicks in when the CPU temp hits 70c, and I don't have a care about that because even though for a CPU 70c might seem crazy, it's obviously within the design specification.

Outside the US it's a very different story, since GF100 does not compete on price, and that's a serious negative. But since this is a US forum, it typically doesn't matter to the majority of posters.

Also, heat is only a problem because of when GF100 launched. I have an afternoon sun-facing room, and in winter it was amazing, because my room was the warmest in the house. Now that it's spring, it's hell because my room is so much warmer than the rest of the house. So while people might consider the extra power a bad thing, come winter it will be appreciated Also the sun probably warms up my room more than a GF100 would.

 

[Creig]

Thank you Creig. Absolutely perfect example of what I was talking about. Would you like me to break through my walls and measure the R-rating of my insulation for you?

Nice. I'm being serious and you can respond only with sarcasm.

You're the one claiming:

I just got finished running 480SLI in a Unigine loop for 12 hours in a 8x12 room in my basement with windows closed. Spent most of the day yesterday at the hospital visiting someone. Got home at 8pm. Went downstairs to check on the rig. Still running. I noticed the room was a touch warmer than the adjacent room

And yet you completely failed to answer my questions:

Was the door to this room (if there is one) open or closed?
Is it normally cooler in your basement than upstairs?
Do you think that possibly your concrete block basement might be absorbing some of the ambient heat put out by your GTX480 SLI rig?

And rather than insulting everybody by responding with such flippant remarks as:

How do some of you handle it when the sun comes up?

I noticed the room was a touch warmer than the adjacent room, but I assure you all, I did not burst into flames walking into that room.

Did not feel compelled to open the windows before suffocation.

Stop blowing this out of proportion folks. It's getting really ridiculous now.

perhaps you could acknowledge that not everybody has the same basement room setup as you and that some of us have issues with heat, even with a single video card setup. I can say with complete honesty that your 700W GTX480 SLI setup would put out way too much heat for my upstairs gaming room. I would not be able to game at night with the door closed. It would simply get too hot unless I cranked the AC on high and froze everybody else out of the house. As it is, I need to open a window after a few hours with just an HD4890 OC and a Q6600.

How far will you go? Heat and power draw are the only negatives for GF100, and as I have read in another forum, it's no surprise this is the area you are focusing on.

Well, to be honest, I would have to say that price and availability aren't exactly stellar at the moment, either.

And now that you've acknowledged that some of these arguments are ridiculous,

No, they aren't ridiculous. Now you're just pulling a Rollo and are attempting to change the subject when you don't have any good answers to the questions put before you.

you shift to (hmmm, what else is left?) Noise.
Noise, yet another "issue" blown out of proportion. The "Jet engine" sound is with fans at 85-100% set manually. For the most part, on GTX470 at least, gets as high as 79% when really pushed. You can definitely hear it if you turn off your speakers or take off your headphones, but other than that.....

Noise isn't one of the overriding concerns for me in a video card. Never has been. Naturally I'll take noise into account, but it isn't super high on my list.

What's next? Price?

I would probably go with "lack of availability" next. It actually has to be in stock before "price" can become an issue.

Why don't you try discussing the pros of the GF100 line now that you've completely exhausted your arsenal on the negatives?
Why not discuss the negatives of the 5xxx series? Can you bring yourself to do that? I certainly don't deny that GF100 runs hotter, draws more power, and have noisier fans than the 5xxx series. Those are the only flaws, and that is what your sticking to.
Be refreshing. Bend over backwards and actually say something good about GF100, because they are very good cards. So are the 5xxx series.

The GF100 is a nice card. Never said it wasn't. If somebody offered to swap my 4890 OC for a GTX 470 or GTX 480, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The same goes for the 5850 or 5870.

I put the GF100 roughly in the same category as the 2900XT. A nice first attempt with multiple new technologies that will most likely improve greatly once it's refined a bit more. The GF100 has the added benefit that it's competitive with ATi's offerings right out of the gate rather than later on down the road as in the case of the 2900XT.

I was simply attempting to stay on-topic since this thread was created to discuss the power consumption/heat of the GTX480.

 

[Keysplayr]

Okaaayyy... I'll play along for a while.

Nice. I'm being serious and you can respond only with sarcasm.

You're the one claiming:

And yet you completely failed to answer my questions:

Was the door to this room (if there is one) open or closed? Closed. Spring loaded actually. It's a fire door because that is the room where the heating system for the house is. Which has been off for weeks now due to warm weather.
Is it normally cooler in your basement than upstairs? No. Usually the same as the rest of the home.
Do you think that possibly your concrete block basement might be absorbing some of the ambient heat put out by your GTX480 SLI rig? No, my basement walls are finished with sheet rock and all external walls are insulated with R-13 fiberlass insulation. Foil type.

And rather than insulting everybody by responding with such flippant remarks as:
perhaps you could acknowledge that not everybody has the same basement room setup as you and that some of us have issues with heat, even with a single video card setup. I can say with complete honesty that your 700W GTX480 SLI setup would put out way too much heat for my upstairs gaming room.You wouldn't know, you don't have the setup. Probably why it's so easy to blow out of proportion for you. I would not be able to game at night with the door closed. It would simply get too hot unless I cranked the AC on high and froze everybody else out of the house. As it is, I need to open a window after a few hours with just an HD4890 OC and a Q6600.You are totally exaggerating, unless you game in a closet.

Well, to be honest, I would have to say that price and availability aren't exactly stellar at the moment, either. Isn't exactly terrible either considering everyone expected the 470 to be 450.00 and the 480 to be north of 600.00. I'd say Nvidia did pretty well with the pricing. Even if you do not.

No, they aren't ridiculous. Now you're just pulling a Rollo and are attempting to change the subject when you don't have any good answers to the questions put before you.You just admitted above that some heat arguments are ridiculous. I would include your own in that mix, actually one of the more "out there" arguments getting into what type of insulation the rooms have. Beyond reason.

Noise isn't one of the overriding concerns for me in a video card. Never has been. Naturally I'll take noise into account, but it isn't super high on my list. It definitely bothers some. Take BFG10k, he does not tolerate any noise and has held that opinion for as long as I can remember. But then others could care less.

I would probably go with "lack of availability" next. It actually has to be in stock before "price" can become an issue. The availability actually seems better than when the 58xx series launched. At least they can be bought, and Newegg for example seems to be getting a steady "In Stock/Out of Stock/In Stock algorithm going. And most of their 470s are actually holding at MSRP. Which is probably why everyone is buying them up from there.

The GF100 is a nice card. Never said it wasn't. If somebody offered to swap my 4890 OC for a GTX 470 or GTX 480, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The same goes for the 5850 or 5870. All fine cards to be sure

I put the GF100 roughly in the same category as the 2900XT. A nice first attempt with multiple new technologies that will most likely improve greatly once it's refined a bit more. The GF100 has the added benefit that it's competitive with ATi's offerings right out of the gate rather than later on down the road as in the case of the 2900XT.I wouldn't. 2900XT didn't even outperform NV's 2nd tier at the time of launch. Either slower or equalled it. 480 is a good amount faster than 5870 in performance, Especially when higher levels of candy are applied.

I was simply attempting to stay on-topic since this thread was created to discuss the power consumption/heat of the GTX480.

I hope you don't think I have failed again. I've answered in bold above every single question you had. And my own comments as well.

Stop blowing this out of proportion. Thanks.

 

[yh125d]

My old bathroom had one of those light fixtures with 5 60w bulbs in it, and it could easily heat up the medium sized room by 5-10 degrees in just maybe 15 minutes. That's a little more heat output than a GTX480. Imagine that much heat in a room twice the size (would be a fairly normal computer room/study. It would definitely become noticeable in most situations.

My brother can't let his computer idle overnight in the warm months (e4300, 9800gt, etc), because it heats up his bedroom too much


Go ahead keys, continue to delude yourself into thinking dumping 500+ watts of heat into a small room (conservative number for GPUs alone) won't have a noticeable affect on ambient temps. Your fundamental ignorance of basic thermodynamics to promote your free product is still amusing.

 

[Keysplayr]

My old bathroom had one of those light fixtures with 5 60w bulbs in it, and it could easily heat up the medium sized room by 5-10 degrees in just maybe 15 minutes. That's a little more heat output than a GTX480. Imagine that much heat in a room twice the size (would be a fairly normal computer room/study. It would definitely become noticeable in most situations.

My brother can't let his computer idle overnight in the warm months (e4300, 9800gt, etc), because it heats up his bedroom too much


Go ahead keys, continue to delude yourself into thinking dumping 500+ watts of heat into a small room (conservative number for GPUs alone) won't have a noticeable affect on ambient temps. Your fundamental ignorance of basic thermodynamics to promote your free product is still amusing.

Hmmm. How long would you think it would take for 3 or 4 60W bulbs to do that same job?
Basically, you just said that 5 60W light bulbs can raise a BATHROOMs temp from say 70F to 80-85F in 15 minutes. Are.... you.... kidding.... me....?
I can see that if you take a steaming hot shower for 15 minutes.

 

[Creig]

You are totally exaggerating, unless you game in a closet.

Not unless you game in a closet as well. As I already said, my gaming room is approximately the same size as yours.

Stop blowing this out of proportion. Thanks.

I'm not. You're trying to downplay it.

Just from this thread alone:

I was playing STO yesterday with the windows open at night (in northern Albera!), and the way that game loads up a gfx card, it put out so much heat as to make me uncomfortable, and that's a 5870.

Gaming in general does heat up a room during an extended session. It's definitely noticeable during an all night BFBC2 marathon.

Agreeing here. The heat generated by a computer can be uncomfortable in a small room. It's not noticeable if you just play like 30 minutes, but you'll start to feel the warmth and stuffy air after maybe 2 hrs. It's not just the area under the desk, the whole room gets warm and very stuffy. Opening the windows does worse during summer. It's definitely not a feeling from the stress of gaming (seriously gaming is not stressful) because it's something I can clearly feel when I walk out of the room, and besides my wife confirms it.

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to do a quick search of other forums and post a few more examples of people whose computers heat up their rooms to the point of being uncomfortable.

I realize you are probably being pressured to help downplay the negative aspects of the GF100, but please stop. There are multiple people in this thread alone telling you that they have heat related issues while gaming, even with video cards that don't put out 250w-300w under load. Or a pair of them, for that matter.

I'm not sure where you think your 700W+ of heat is going, but it has to go somewhere being that it's staying within an enclosed, heated 8'x12' room. Or maybe you just don't obey the laws of thermodynamics in your house. I think I'll ask Homer to stop by and have a word with you about that.

 

[yh125d]

Hmmm. How long would you think it would take for 3 or 4 60W bulbs to do that same job?
Basically, you just said that 5 60W light bulbs can raise a BATHROOMs temp from say 70F to 80-85F in 15 minutes. Are.... you.... kidding.... me....?
I can see that if you take a steaming hot shower for 15 minutes.

Yes, in about 15 minutes. About the time it would take me to do a good shave and cleanup. I'd estimate it at being 6'x10' with 8ft ceilings, so maybe 1/2 the size of a normal computer room/study/office. Right about 1/2 the size of your room, which had about twice the amount of heat being pumped into it.


No matter how much you like getting free fermis, they can't break the laws of thermodynamics. If you pump heat into an enclosed space, it -will- heat up. Your claim that 480sli loaded (700w+) for 12 hours didn't really change the temperature of a closed small room more than "a touch" is ludicrous.

 

[Keysplayr]

I realize you are probably being pressured to help downplay the negative aspects of the GF100, but please stop. There are multiple people in this thread alone telling you that they have heat related issues while gaming, even with video cards that don't put out 250w-300w under load. Or a pair of them, for that matter.

Creig, all I can say is, at the very least, I'm full out in the open. Nobody pressures me at all, but I can't help thinking that if you think I'm being pressured, then you might be experiencing something like that yourself, which probably is a sucky feeling.

 

[Keysplayr]

Yes, in about 15 minutes. About the time it would take me to do a good shave and cleanup. I'd estimate it at being 6'x10' with 8ft ceilings, so maybe 1/2 the size of a normal computer room/study/office. Right about 1/2 the size of your room, which had about twice the amount of heat being pumped into it.


No matter how much you like getting free fermis, they can't break the laws of thermodynamics. If you pump heat into an enclosed space, it -will- heat up. Your claim that 480sli loaded (700w+) for 12 hours didn't really change the temperature of a closed small room more than "a touch" is ludicrous.

So if I went into your bathroom which was 70F, and flicked on your light, closed the door and came back in 15 minutes it would be about 80 to 85F in that bathroom. I suppose you use cold water only to shave and cleanup too? Lord knows I do to soften up them whiskers.
Keep em comin. I suppose somebody here will believe you eventually.

 

[yh125d]

So if I went into your bathroom which was 70F, and flicked on your light, closed the door and came back in 15 minutes it would be about 80 to 85F in that bathroom. I suppose you use cold water only to shave and cleanup too? Lord knows I do to soften up them whiskers.
Keep em comin. I suppose somebody here will believe you eventually.

A sink of warm water does not several hundreds of watts of heating make



We put up with a lot of your partisan word twisting here Keys but it's getting to the point that it's sickening, you should be embarassed

 

[Shilohen]

Yes, in about 15 minutes. About the time it would take me to do a good shave and cleanup. I'd estimate it at being 6'x10' with 8ft ceilings, so maybe 1/2 the size of a normal computer room/study/office. Right about 1/2 the size of your room, which had about twice the amount of heat being pumped into it.


No matter how much you like getting free fermis, they can't break the laws of thermodynamics. If you pump heat into an enclosed space, it -will- heat up. Your claim that 480sli loaded (700w+) for 12 hours didn't really change the temperature of a closed small room more than "a touch" is ludicrous.

Hmm, let see. The volumetric heat capacity of air is 0.001297 J/cm³K http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity

700W = 700 J / s

So we have 700 J / s * (0.001297 J/cm³K)^-1 = 539,707 cm³K/s

The room is 6'x'10'x8' so 72''x120''x96'' = 183cm x 305cm x 244 cm = 13,618,860 cm³

539,707 cm³K/s * (13,618,860 cm³)^-1 = 0.039629381607564803515125348230322 K/s

0.039629381607564803515125348230322 K/s * 60s/min = 2,38 K/min

2,38 K/min * 15 min = 35.7K ... wow I must have made mistake

35.7K = 64.3F

Can someone locate my mistake? I know this implies a completely closed environment, and I did expect an increase, but not of that magnitude... it's just ridiculous.

 

[Madcatatlas]

So your saying Shilohen that his 700watts PSU would in 15 minutes bring the temperatur of the room in subject from 0 to 64,3F?

Im not the brightest pupil around..just saying

 

[yh125d]

That may be a bit high, but I'm 100% confident it would take a room from comfortable to sweating in short order. Although he is mixing up examples, putting keys sli rig in my bathroom

 

[Shilohen]

So your saying Shilohen that his 700watts PSU would in 15 minutes bring the temperatur of the room in subject from 0 to 64,3F?

Im not the brightest pupil around..just saying

Well, that's what the calculation is saying. However, we're not talking about a 700W PSU, we're talking about 700W being consumed, and the room's dimensions are quite small, but I must admit that I expected something more like 10K, hence why I think I've made a mistake, but I cannot find it. The Wikipedia value might also be off.

 

[Creig]

Creig, all I can say is, at the very least, I'm full out in the open.

As am I. Plus, I pay for all my own computer hardware so I am not influenced whatsoever by any one manufacturer. You can't say the same.

Nobody pressures me at all,

Perhaps you're completely on the level, perhaps not. Let's just say that the Nvidia Focus Group doesn't exactly have the most stellar reputation since people like Rollo are allowed to remain members.

but I can't help thinking that if you think I'm being pressured, then you might be experiencing something like that yourself, which probably is a sucky feeling.

I've read this through a couple of times now and the only sense I can make out of it is that you think I'm part of some ATi equivalent to the Nvidia Focus Group. Is that what you are attempting to insinuate?

 

[Keysplayr]

That may be a bit high, but I'm 100% confident it would take a room from comfortable to sweating in short order. Although he is mixing up examples, putting keys sli rig in my bathroom

"May" or "is"?

"would" or "has"?

Somehow, I think your telling us all what you "think" would happen, not was "has" happened.

 

[yh125d]

"May" or "is"?

"would" or "has"?

Somehow, I think your telling us all what you "think" would happen, not was "has" happened.

That's because the situation I was referring to would be dumping more than twice the heat into the space I referenced earlier. I never pumped 700w into that room and never implied that I did, so I don't know for sure, which is why I avoided talking in absolutes (except my absolute confidence that it would heat up the room quite rapidly). Nice try though. You're preposterous.

 

[JSt0rm]

"May" or "is"?

"would" or "has"?

Somehow, I think your telling us all what you "think" would happen, not was "has" happened.

hey keys an aside: what power supply are you running?

 

[Keysplayr]

As am I. Plus, I pay for all my own computer hardware so I am not influenced whatsoever by any one manufacturer. You can't say the same.

I purchase my own computer hardware too, Creig. Besides what NV sends me, I purchase all my own computer hardware as well. Even ATI products.


Perhaps you're completely on the level, perhaps not. Let's just say that the Nvidia Focus Group doesn't exactly have the most stellar reputation since people like Rollo are allowed to remain members.
You want to deal with Rollo, go to another forum. You're not dealing with anyone here right now except Keysplayr.


I've read this through a couple of times now and the only sense I can make out of it is that you think I'm part of some ATi equivalent to the Nvidia Focus Group. Is that what you are attempting to insinuate?

In order for you to be an equivalent to the Nvidia Focus Group, you'd need to disclose that in your sig. I don't see anything in your sig pertaining to anything like that. So I can say, no, I don't think you are part of something (ATI or other) equivalent to the Nvidia Focus Group.

 

[Creig]

In order for you to be an equivalent to the Nvidia Focus Group, you'd need to disclose that in your sig. I don't see anything in your sig pertaining to anything like that. So I can say, no, I don't think you are part of something (ATI or other) equivalent to the Nvidia Focus Group.

Okaayyy.... So what exactly did you mean by:

I can't help thinking that if you think I'm being pressured, then you might be experiencing something like that yourself, which probably is a sucky feeling.

Because if it isn't some reference to me being part of a Focus Group type organization, then I can't make heads nor tails of it.

 

[Keysplayr]

That's because the situation I was referring to would be dumping more than twice the heat into the space I referenced earlier. I never pumped 700w into that room and never implied that I did, so I don't know for sure, which is why I avoided talking in absolutes (except my absolute confidence that it would heat up the room quite rapidly). Nice try though. You're preposterous.

Well then speak in facts. Not absolutes or extremes. You won't be misunderstood next time. Now we know, you made up your numbers. Who's preposterous? Methinks not I.

 

[Keysplayr]

Okaayyy.... So what exactly did you mean by:

Why? Do you think I know something I shouldn't or something? Or should know something that I do not?

 

[Attic]

Well i'm trying to read this thread but i'm getting dizzy.

 

[yh125d]

Well then speak in facts. Not absolutes or extremes. You won't be misunderstood next time. Now we know, you made up your numbers. Who's preposterous? Methinks not I.

I spoke in no extremes or absolutes. You're not as dumb as you act keys, we both know that. I wasn't misunderstood, you knew exactly what I meant. I very explicitly stated that he had mixed up our two examples. You know that. You knew that. We both know you're trying to twist my words to make me seem noncredible to take the heat (pun intended) off of you, and I'm not falling for it.