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The FDA is a joke.

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Originally Posted by IceBergSLiM
And how do you recall dna that has self propagated itself in the environment? How do you test for mutations from the original GMO dna sequence?

I'm glad someone gets it.
Click to expand...

You obviously do not get it at all....
I vote we should start out by testing you to make sure idiots are not self - propogating!!
You actually have no clue what that word means or what positive things in our world are due to mutating and self-prpogation...
 
JEDIYoda said:
You obviously do not get it at all....
I vote we should start out by testing you to make sure idiots are not self - propogating!!
You actually have no clue what that word means or what positive things in our world are due to mutating and self-prpogation...
Click to expand...

i understand mutations occur in nature all the time and the beneficial ones are selected for and passed on. I get that. has nothing to do with GMO organism.
 
JEDIYoda said:
You obviously do not get it at all....
I vote we should start out by testing you to make sure idiots are not self - propogating!!
You actually have no clue what that word means or what positive things in our world are due to mutating and self-prpogation...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry JediYoda but that is entirely irrelevant, when mixing animal and vegetable DNA you create a mutation which could never happen on it's own and THEN natural selection takes over which means that in the end, the eventual hybrid will have taken over completely. At this point it might be highly toxic to humans (which would make sense considering the biological perspective since we don't spread the seeds naturally).

It's a helluvalot different to breed a specific sort of produce because it's more tolerant than it is to alter it's DNA with animal DNA creating a new form of produce that no one has ever even tested if it's safe for consumption.
 
ShawnD1 said:
It's worth noting that those all natural organic pesticides tend to be more dangerous than synthetic ones because the use the shotgun approach. Scientists make synthetics target specific bugs, but natural pesticides just seem to kill everything.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100622175510.htm


Another example of a natural pesticide is nicotine. Nicotine is extremely effective but uses the shotgun approach and kills absolutely everything, including ladybugs.
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Sounds like you have no clue what IPM represents and are just spouting any example that contradicts "natural pesticides".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Pest_Management
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Pest_Management

Many local farmers in my area utilize IPM/GPM and their prices aren't that much more vice the supermarket's regular produce prices. IPM is the next best thing to organic and doesn't involve subjugating yourself to GMO corporation food.
 
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IceBergSLiM said:
i understand mutations occur in nature all the time and the beneficial ones are selected for and passed on. I get that. has nothing to do with GMO organism.
Click to expand...

You seem to have no understanding of GM food. Genetic engineering can help to fortify food, make it resilient to illness and bugs, resilient to drought, make crop yields higher. Resilience to bugs means less need for pesticides, which is a great thing.

It's not like genetic engineering is different from hybrid crossing. We're just accelerating the process and adding in genes that might not necessarily appear.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I'm sorry JediYoda but that is entirely irrelevant, when mixing animal and vegetable DNA you create a mutation which could never happen on it's own and THEN natural selection takes over which means that in the end, the eventual hybrid will have taken over completely. At this point it might be highly toxic to humans (which would make sense considering the biological perspective since we don't spread the seeds naturally).

It's a helluvalot different to breed a specific sort of produce because it's more tolerant than it is to alter it's DNA with animal DNA creating a new form of produce that no one has ever even tested if it's safe for consumption.
Click to expand...

or dna from highly resilient bacteria or virii which is what they use also. In nature or even in basic agriculture it is common to combine attributes from within the same family or genus and even then the resulting organism is infertile.(i.e. a mule) With GMO They are forcing DNA from a different Kingdom.
 
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Brainonska511 said:
You seem to have no understanding of GM food. Genetic engineering can help to fortify food, make it resilient to illness and bugs, resilient to drought, make crop yields higher. Resilience to bugs means less need for pesticides, which is a great thing.

It's not like genetic engineering is different from hybrid crossing. We're just accelerating the process and adding in genes that might not necessarily appear.
Click to expand...

1) it does not fortify food in anyway. There is no consumer benefit of GMO.

2) By putting the pesticide in the dna you end up with higher concentrations of pesticide because it exists in every cell of the organism. They have also shown that these dna sequences since they have virii and bacterial properties can infiltrate your stomachs natural bacteria creating a perpetual pesticide factory.

3) That is not at all how it works. in Traditional hybrids you are combining dna from with in the same genus. In GMO foods they are combining dna from different kingdoms! You should watch any of the videos i've posted to gain a basic understanding of the process.

you have been misled where did you learn about gmo?
 
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IceBergSLiM said:
1) it does not fortify food in anyway. There is no consumer benefit of GMO.

2) By putting the pesticide in the dna you end up with higher concentrations of pesticide because it exists in every cell of the organism. They have also shown that these dna sequences since they have virii and bacterial properties can infiltrate your stomachs natural bacteria creating a perpetual pesticide factory.

3) That is not at all how it works. in Traditional hybrids you are combining dna from with in the same genus. In GMO foods they are combining dna from different kingdoms! You should watch any of the videos i've posted to gain a basic understanding of the process.

you have been misled where did you learn about gmo?
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1) There have been fortified rices created to grow in nutrition poor areas of the world.

2) Right.... sounds like a lot of scare tactics. It's not just about having an organism create the pesticides, it is also about enhancing the natural defenses or expressing toxic to bugs (but not to humans) natural products.

3) Nothing wrong with combining DNA from different kingdoms. If you're just expressing a protein or a natural product that is harmful only to pests, what's the big deal?

4) I'm a biochemist/chemist by training. I think I have a pretty good idea of how genetic engineering works.
 
Brainonska511 said:
1) There have been fortified rices created to grow in nutrition poor areas of the world.

2) Right.... sounds like a lot of scare tactics. It's not just about having an organism create the pesticides, it is also about enhancing the natural defenses or expressing toxic to bugs (but not to humans) natural products. Yeah but they do not know how the changes made also impact the rest of the organism genome. its not like they are insert exactly 1 gene and that is the only thing that changes. Its a total crap shoot, Sure they get the desired trait they were going for but they also reprogram a shit ton of other genes and have no idea(because it isn't studied or regulated) what those changes can impact.

3) Nothing wrong with combining DNA from different kingdoms. If you're just expressing a protein or a natural product that is harmful only to pests, what's the big deal? You are very very naive. There is no such thing as changing just "one protein" as mentioned above. There is no evidence that says the changes are harmful only to pests. In animal studies rats and other species fed GMO vs. non-gmo feeds there were dramatic changes in their biology. Mortality and reproductive rates were always impacted. Further more since the 1996 when gmo's came on the scene in the states food allergies have increased, GI diseases, obesity and a whole slew of other ailments have increased in the USA.

4) I'm a biochemist/chemist by training. I think I have a pretty good idea of how genetic engineering works.
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1) I don't live in a poor area of the world so this isn't relevant to me as consumer in the USI would be curious to find out what they changed.

2) Yeah but they do not know how the changes made also impact the rest of the organism genome. its not like they are insert exactly 1 gene and that is the only thing that changes. Its a total crap shoot, Sure they get the desired trait they were going for but they also reprogram a shit ton of other genes and have no idea(because it isn't studied or regulated) what those changes can impact.

3) You are very very naive. There is no such thing as changing just "one protein" as mentioned above. There is no evidence that says the changes are harmful only to pests. In animal studies rats and other species fed GMO vs. non-gmo feeds there were dramatic changes in their biology. Mortality and reproductive rates were always impacted. Further more since the 1996 when gmo's came on the scene in the states food allergies have increased, GI diseases, obesity and a whole slew of other related ailments have increased. None of this was ever studied by the FDA. Do you know why if you add a new food preservative to a can of soup you have to get FDA approval BUT if you can modify the genetic code of the food in the soup so it produces the preservative on its own it requires no testing!

4) It's clear you don't understand how it works at all. Watch the video I posted from the seeds of deception website. Refute that information. Just because you took a Biochem class at your undergrad or clean the rat shit out of the cages for a real scientiest doesn't mean you know shit about this stuff.
 
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IceBergSLiM said:
4) It's clear you don't understand how it works at all. Watch the video I posted from the seeds of deception website. Refute that information. Just because you took a Biochem class at your undergrad or clean the rat shit out of the cages for a real scientiest doesn't mean you know shit about this stuff.
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When you assume, you make an ass out of yourself. Congratulations.
 
I am glad for this discussion. Am finishing BIO 101 in a few weeks and one of my many problems to solve is world hunger. Teacher wants me to genetically engineer food to feed the world.
He worked in a lab most of his adult life and teaching is not his forte. I tried explaining to him this is my first time in Biology but he would have none of it.
On the plus side because he's not a real teacher he has been pretty generous with the grading so far. Its likely if I just try to answer the questions I will get an A for the whole course.
 
Brainonska511 said:
You seem to have no understanding of GM food. Genetic engineering can help to fortify food, make it resilient to illness and bugs, resilient to drought, make crop yields higher. Resilience to bugs means less need for pesticides, which is a great thing.

It's not like genetic engineering is different from hybrid crossing. We're just accelerating the process and adding in genes that might not necessarily appear.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely against this, but i would prefer bacteria used ON plants to protect them.

It changes protein structure and just like the Irish farmers said that BSE was not CJD we will not know for two decades what the end result is, the end result could mean the death of an entire continent because this is NOT tested at all.

Are you prepared to ingest BSE? Why not? There has not BEEN a scientific study supporting the proliferation to CJD and the prion is only close, not the same... what if a plant has a prion (protein) close enough?

You can't fuck with nature, it'll fuck you RIGHT BACK EVERY TIME, see that is how you can't fool cows into cannibalism without problems, that is why we get new forms of vegetable virii that is actually transferable to animals...

The problem is that testing needs two decades with unwitting test subjects in this case so they decided to not test at all.

For these things, it's the producers that need to provide evidence that it is safe for human consumption, i've seen no such thing.

Why? Well for some reason, the FDA, government and every fucking agency decided to just not interfere in this one...

Not to fucking bright.
 
shortylickens said:
I am glad for this discussion. Am finishing BIO 101 in a few weeks and one of my many problems to solve is world hunger. Teacher wants me to genetically engineer food to feed the world.
He worked in a lab most of his adult life and teaching is not his forte. I tried explaining to him this is my first time in Biology but he would have none of it.
On the plus side because he's not a real teacher he has been pretty generous with the grading so far. Its likely if I just try to answer the questions I will get an A for the whole course.
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The US alone throws away five times as much food as it would take to feed the third world, the EU about half of that.

We don't have a lack of food, if he told you that, get a baseball bat and write my name on it before you beat him over the head with it.

GMO has absolutely everything to do with big farming in the USA and no where else and while Montesanto does cash in, it feeds only the USA.

In both the EU and the USA farmers are paid NOT to produce, but GMO in some fields is how we feed the world?

Tell that professer to shove his propaganda right up his arse, he has no individual thought,
 
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