-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
The Eternal Question...
Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
5LiterMustang
Senior member
Great article...
As said earlier just because something has 2mb of cache doesn't mean its a faster machine. In fact the gains seen from going over 1mb of cache are almost non existent and the gains from 512 to 1mb are only marginal. The big jump was from 256k to 512k.
It's like taking a Corvette(amd) and a mustang GT(intel) so the Ford guy puts bigger tires on his car...well once you're talking about rather large 275 width tires going to 295 doesn't make much difference and the vette is still going to be faster.
Griffinhart
Golden Member
Well, it's not that the Intel set up is bad or anything. But, reviews seem to lean me towards AMD. Frankly, I think the only CPU on your list that you would be dissapointed in is the Intel Multi Core. I simply don't see you being unhappy with any of the other choices.
As far as RAM memory goes, remember AMD does not=Intel when dealing with RAM. There are a lot of mitigating factors. AMD's RAM comtroller is on the CPU Dye itself so, it gives a benefit. DDR2 is faster, but tends to have bigger latencies. Here is a review of the 3500+ http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2004q3/athlon64-3500/index.x?pg=3 That's the memory section. Keep in mind the 3500+ has half the cache of the 3700+, but, it gives a good idea of how AMD is on this front.
AMD will never offer DDR2. Instead, it looks like they are going to go straight to DDR3 with the next Socket time next year.
As for Dual Cores, in all honesty, AMD's X2's are simply in a different league over the Intel Dual Cores. I don't see this changing until Yonas and that not even too clear yet.
It's all a tough choice though. I just, strongly, suggest keeping away from the intel entry level dual core due to it's single core performance. It's likely to be little better than what you currently have for the MMOG's you currently play.
Basically AMD does much more work per clock of frequency - this is sometimes called the IPC rating.
AMD's IPC rating x frequency is basically higher than Intel's lower IPC x higher frequency.
The 1Mb on the 3700 San Diego has typically shown neglible performance extra over a 512kb Venice except in the occasional thing where for example I remember reading getting as much as 18% extra in some bit of Half Life 2.
3700+ San Diego's overclock very well actually - typically 2.7ghz isn't a problem although please check at forums (here and elsewhere) eg one thread here comparing Venice to San Diego.
If you're looking to overclock very stably with low heat look to overclocking towards 2.6ghz as typically beyond that the amount of heat produced for increased frequency increases very much more rapidly - exponentially. However, even at 2.7-2.8ghz you'r probably still going to use less power/heat than Intel. Intel's Netburst chips produce so much heat they have had to introduce thermal throttling ie when it gets too hot it reduces its frequency - that's really testament to how near-sightedly designed a chip it was.
AMD's IPC rating x frequency is basically higher than Intel's lower IPC x higher frequency.
The 1Mb on the 3700 San Diego has typically shown neglible performance extra over a 512kb Venice except in the occasional thing where for example I remember reading getting as much as 18% extra in some bit of Half Life 2.
3700+ San Diego's overclock very well actually - typically 2.7ghz isn't a problem although please check at forums (here and elsewhere) eg one thread here comparing Venice to San Diego.
If you're looking to overclock very stably with low heat look to overclocking towards 2.6ghz as typically beyond that the amount of heat produced for increased frequency increases very much more rapidly - exponentially. However, even at 2.7-2.8ghz you'r probably still going to use less power/heat than Intel. Intel's Netburst chips produce so much heat they have had to introduce thermal throttling ie when it gets too hot it reduces its frequency - that's really testament to how near-sightedly designed a chip it was.
Please, if nothing else, make your decision based on what you need and what can do it best at your pricepoint, not on the amount of cache or the clockspeed or the RAM/FSB. Both of those are just attempts to cover up a much larger problem with the NetBurst architechture. If you can at all spare it, I would recommend finding a 3800+ X2, but if not, the Intel dual cores will serve you well if you are using a multi-processor capable program. The big tradeoff with Intel dual core right now is that you get a second core, but by doing so you sacrifice a lot of single threaded power. If you are dealing mostly in single thread and can't afford the X2, then get the 3700+ A64.
Edit: Mark was talking about this, which is some OCZ 2x1GB. I would hardly consider OCZ a "generic brand," but either way you lose money by buying your RAM direct from Crucial like that; very rarely does the manufacturer offer the lowest price.
Edit: Mark was talking about this, which is some OCZ 2x1GB. I would hardly consider OCZ a "generic brand," but either way you lose money by buying your RAM direct from Crucial like that; very rarely does the manufacturer offer the lowest price.
Here's another thread but in it people discuss Intel vs AMD like what you want.
Now on overclocking - it's down to luck of the draw but 3700+ has been proven a great overclocking chip. Intel you may want to consider if you would want to overclock it given all the heat it produces.
Now on overclocking - it's down to luck of the draw but 3700+ has been proven a great overclocking chip. Intel you may want to consider if you would want to overclock it given all the heat it produces.
Gamingphreek
Lifer
CPU: $405 X2 3800+
M/B: $125 ($100AR)MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (If you want SLI for future upgradability, you will have to save for a little)
RAM: $200 2x 1gig OCZ Value
Sound: You can use onboard due to the use of Soundblaster. However you can also look at an Audigy 2 for ~100.
HDD: $100 200Gig SATA II NCQ Spinpoint
(Also, you can look at the Seagate Barracuda's which are very nice, but slightly more expensive, and older)
Video: $345 ($330 After IR) EVGA 6800GT (You can now use EVGA's step up program and upgrade to a better card within 90days)
You now have $40 to play with. You can either save another $30 for a Soundcard, or you can invest in an SLI motherboard.
-Kevin
M/B: $125 ($100AR)MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (If you want SLI for future upgradability, you will have to save for a little)
RAM: $200 2x 1gig OCZ Value
Sound: You can use onboard due to the use of Soundblaster. However you can also look at an Audigy 2 for ~100.
HDD: $100 200Gig SATA II NCQ Spinpoint
(Also, you can look at the Seagate Barracuda's which are very nice, but slightly more expensive, and older)
Video: $345 ($330 After IR) EVGA 6800GT (You can now use EVGA's step up program and upgrade to a better card within 90days)
You now have $40 to play with. You can either save another $30 for a Soundcard, or you can invest in an SLI motherboard.
-Kevin
A very good suggestion there 🙂
The 7.1 Chaintech card I reckon could be a possibility - a slight step up in audio quality I think as it has nice clean analalogue sound although lacking some features while CPU utilisation could be lower. If you were going for an aftermarket sound card the Epox board might be a good one to go and save you a bit of money - its an excellent overclocker and a solid stable board.
Alternative is buy the new ATI chipset - look to Sapphire or DFI's efforts - DFI is already on sale here in the UK as they includes some rather good on-board audio.
Griffinhart
Golden Member
Ooh related info. I read that NVidia is lowering the prices on their 6800 line very soon. 🙂
Gamingphreek
Lifer
The Chaintech card is based on the Via Envy APU. While this is EXCELLENT, it is horrible for gaming. The only realy gaming cards are onboard Soundstorm (Old but very nice) and the Audigy series.
As for the ATI boards. They have always looked promising. Everytime they release a new one the same thing happens, everyone says the Nforce is going to be flattened. Nothing has happened yet. Additionally, i will never buy ULI again.
-Kevin
So, I know this is the CPU forum, but I figure, since we've gone this far, I'll try to stretch a bit...
If I went the route of the 3700+, what's a decent motherboard to pair it up with... I'll need SATA RAID, PCI-E 16x and 4 DIMM Slots... I'm seing some SOLTEK boards, but I've never heard of them.
If the X2 and the 3700+ were both running on XP Pro with an application that didn't utilize dual core, how would they perform against each other?
If I went the route of the 3700+, what's a decent motherboard to pair it up with... I'll need SATA RAID, PCI-E 16x and 4 DIMM Slots... I'm seing some SOLTEK boards, but I've never heard of them.
If the X2 and the 3700+ were both running on XP Pro with an application that didn't utilize dual core, how would they perform against each other?
If an application does not utilize more than 1 thread you will not see the slightest bit of performance increase with dual core. Ex: A venice 3500+ (2.2 ghz, 512k) will be exactly the same as the X2 4200+ (2.2 ghz, 512k).
You said you are into mmorpg development. Better check if the software you are using is multithreaded. If you arent going to overclock, soltek will be fine. If you are, get the MSI Neo 4 platinum as it has sb live, and since it has an integrated sound card, and not just intergrated sound, your performance will be alot better in games (15% more fps) due to the sound card taking the stress off the cpu.
You said you are into mmorpg development. Better check if the software you are using is multithreaded. If you arent going to overclock, soltek will be fine. If you are, get the MSI Neo 4 platinum as it has sb live, and since it has an integrated sound card, and not just intergrated sound, your performance will be alot better in games (15% more fps) due to the sound card taking the stress off the cpu.
5LiterMustang
Senior member
Is that entirely true? I thought with windows XP Pro so long as he was running dual core that windows could divide the load...for example his AV and AS stuff would run on one core while his application in question ran on the other, allowing another 10 to 15% of the cpu resources to be free on that core...is that incorrect?
RichUK
Lifer
it wont be exactly the same, as the windows scheduler will assign other services and processes to one core whilst the other core can be dedicated to just that app (if not SMT enabled), where as a plain single core (Venice etc) will have to run every process running .. although there will still be a minor difference depends on what the individual user is running in the background
X2 mb=any socket 939 mb BTW
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...ice=120&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property
Id say either the asus a8n-e or the abit an8-ultra due to its included sound card.
The X2 is better than the PD if you are running a couple apps of cpu intensive apps, where as the PD is better when you run a ton of apps, but they aren't cpu intensive. In your case I would go with the X2 3800+ if you can afford it, as it will be great in games, and since you only plan on running a couple cpu intensive applications, not tons of little apps.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...ice=120&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property
Id say either the asus a8n-e or the abit an8-ultra due to its included sound card.
The X2 is better than the PD if you are running a couple apps of cpu intensive apps, where as the PD is better when you run a ton of apps, but they aren't cpu intensive. In your case I would go with the X2 3800+ if you can afford it, as it will be great in games, and since you only plan on running a couple cpu intensive applications, not tons of little apps.
So, here are the two AMD builds that I've come up with, I'd *really* like to hear some feedback:
Base Components:
($55) Aspire X-Infinity Case/420W power supply
($299) SAPPHIRE X850PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express
($128) 2x 80GB SATA Seagate Barracuda for RAID 0
($196) 2x1GB OCZ Memory
-------
$678
Build 1:
($405) X2 3800+ Manchester
($119) ABIT AN8-ULTRA Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra
+ Base
-------
$1202
Build 2:
($279) AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor
($95) REFURBISHED: MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX
+ Base
-------
$1052
Keeping in mind my budget is $1200 (wife will have to suffer with me shelling out extra for shipping), which here is the better option?
Base Components:
($55) Aspire X-Infinity Case/420W power supply
($299) SAPPHIRE X850PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express
($128) 2x 80GB SATA Seagate Barracuda for RAID 0
($196) 2x1GB OCZ Memory
-------
$678
Build 1:
($405) X2 3800+ Manchester
($119) ABIT AN8-ULTRA Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra
+ Base
-------
$1202
Build 2:
($279) AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor
($95) REFURBISHED: MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX
+ Base
-------
$1052
Keeping in mind my budget is $1200 (wife will have to suffer with me shelling out extra for shipping), which here is the better option?
Gamingphreek
Lifer
Wynder why dont you look at my post. I made you a kick ass system with 30 to spare!?
-Kevin
-Kevin
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
