The DOW is crashing

[imported_Lothar]

Zero inflation, or lower unemployment?
You can't have both.

 

[Fineghal]

Originally posted by: Lothar
Zero inflation, or lower unemployment?
You can't have both.

Well you can have decreasing inflation AND decreasing unemployment, but that's a bit of a special case. Not Ceteris paribus and all that.

Example: Clinton Years.

Basically what happened is the Fed managed to keep aggregate demand increasing at the same rate as the supply.

The unemployment decrease and inflation decrease were the result of positive supply shocks. (Productivity boom. Go Internets!)

But don't look for that to happen a lot in the future.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: techs


Actually inflation is a good thing, in moderation. It allows a vehichle for growth and a way for changes in prices to be adjusted somewhat hidden from the actual consumer. While hiding the real changes may sound devious, it actually prevents marked differences in price, up or down, of goods that may vary on a weekly or daily or monthly basis.
An example would be if the price of milk changed 30 times a month, than people might see a day when it drops and stores would be sold out for weeks.
I am not explaining it well, but everything I have read indicates that there are good reasons for moderate inflation that benefits us all.

Hmm, moderation is a very relative term. What we are dealing with in our country since the Federal Reserve's inception is far from moderate.

For example, if you had 100,000 dollars in 1940 you would essentially be considered a "millionaire" by today's terms, because you'd have equal purchasing power as a person with $1 million of 2005's dollars.

What everyone fails to mention. The standard of living for everyone is much much much higher than it was back then.

 

[Fineghal]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
[

What everyone fails to mention. The standard of living for everyone is much much much higher than it was back then.

Glad to see someone else point it out.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Fineghal

Originally posted by: Lothar
Zero inflation, or lower unemployment?
You can't have both.

Well you can have decreasing inflation AND decreasing unemployment, but that's a bit of a special case. Not Ceteris paribus and all that.

Example: Clinton Years.

Basically what happened is the Fed managed to keep aggregate demand increasing at the same rate as the supply.

The unemployment decrease and inflation decrease were the result of positive supply shocks. (Productivity boom. Go Internets!)

But don't look for that to happen a lot in the future.

Well you can attribute the overall long run GDP growth to technological progress and efficency, so you would see it to an extent... but nowhere near the amount as in the 90s.

Also about your point of national debt ... it's really irrelevant for the most part. The only time it would be an issue is if U.S. creditors somehow lost faith in our creditworthiness. The only way I can see that happening if our monetery policy gets out of whack and we inflate the currency with deficits (ie remove the FED)

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: lozina
Many people do not understand how inflation really affects everything in your life. When the Fed was given the power it was given in 1913, inflation began to systematically deteriorate our wealth and prosperity.

I read an article recently which does a good job at explaining how inflation is tricking us into thinking our economy is booming, when we see headlines of the DOW reaching certain record highs. It is written for anyone to understand without knowing economic jargon, and provides some great charts to illustrate this effect. Please check it out.

http://goldsilver.com/the_dow_is_crashing.php




Luckily there is a politician today, Ron Paul, who understands this and went out on a limb to publicly speak against the Federal Reserve, and he is running for President.

That article has such a huge amount of inaccuracies, misrepresentations and just plain wrong concepts it cannot be just the product of ignorance. Let me guess.. are they selling Gold and Silver index funds?

 

[HombrePequeno]

How are people so misinformed about the Fed? It's not some giant conspiracy organization. There job is to stabilize the money supply so the economy runs smoothly. Bad sh!t can happen when there are unexpected swings in the money supply.

And why do people bitch about inflation? Inflation is the grease that keeps our economy going. Japan had a nice bout with deflation after the BoJ decided to pop their real estate bubble. For a quite a while their economy suffered from deflation and stagnation. They were stuck in a liquidity trap because there wasn't enough benefit to lend. They are just now starting to recover from that.

Also, inflation isn't robbing you unless you're an idiot who keeps his money tucked under his bed. There's no reason your money shouldn't be in a bank (FDIC insured) where you can earn interest on it.

A strong central bank is essential for a modern large economy. There was a time when the Federal Reserve wasn't so strong: in the early years of the Depression. Today we're used to the central bank providing liquidity when there is a recession by making open market purchases of bonds. The Fed didn't completely do that in the early 1930s. Since the Federal Reserve was 12 independent banks, some made open market purchases but there were others that raised their rates because they feared a massive gold outflow and eventual bankruptcy. Thank god the Federal Reserve is a little more centralized these days.

BTW that graph is retarded (US price level one). That makes it seem like the inflation during the Civil War was tiny. The reality is that it was a near doubling in the price level over about four years. You bitch about the amount of inflation we have now but I can't imagine how badly you'd be sh!tting yourself if inflation was ~20%. What's interesting was that there was a political party set up calling for the reintroduction of Greenbacks (fiat money).

Maybe if that scale was logarithmic, it might make more sense.

 

[miketheidiot]

i can see why people want to like ron paul, he is fairly articulate and somewhat dignified look, of course he is just spewing nonsense.

 

[morkinva]

From david rockefeller's 2002 book memoirs,

For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have... attack[ed] the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

Learn from that quote what you will, then go back to sleep.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
(snipped)

Maybe if that scale was logarithmic, it might make more sense.

I have perhaps a little less faith in the Fed than you, but that was a really good post. I was going to mention the need for a log graph, but I don't think most of the 'gold-diggers' would grasp what you're talking about. You'll probably just get resistance and people caliming that you're 'manipulating the numbers'. A graph of inflation rates, instead of price level would also show the steadying effect of the fed more effectively than the raw price level graph.

Using raw numbers for this graph is meant to convey a slanted meaning, and that's all.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: morkinva
From david rockefeller's 2002 book memoirs,

For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have... attack[ed] the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

Learn from that quote what you will, then go back to sleep.

So what? What's wrong with the world being more integrated? That doesn't mean they are doing it to hurt everybody to to scam people. You are truly odd if you think that everything is a conspiracy and that's why you have a hard time getting anybody to look at it from your side. Stop being a freak about it and posting idiotic and non-sensical posts, put something logical, pointed, and reasonable with good points to back up your data. However, all you really do is point to things you have no idea about, you think you are educated, but your education is limited to fringe oddball freak sites that cater to oddballs and freaks. Their data isn't logical and has been easily refuted. However, your only counter, rather than refuting our counterpoints, is to post random crap, conjecture, and "sheeple" vitriol.

Whenever you get a good counter argument to anything we have posted, come back to the real world and talk. Otherwise you'll just remain another fringe freak who'll not be listened to by any sane person.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
(snipped)

Maybe if that scale was logarithmic, it might make more sense.

I have perhaps a little less faith in the Fed than you, but that was a really good post. I was going to mention the need for a log graph, but I don't think most of the 'gold-diggers' would grasp what you're talking about. You'll probably just get resistance and people caliming that you're 'manipulating the numbers'. A graph of inflation rates, instead of price level would also show the steadying effect of the fed more effectively than the raw price level graph.

Using raw numbers for this graph is meant to convey a slanted meaning, and that's all.

I don't have as much faith in the Fed as you think. I think they are one of the large reasons for the start of the Depression and they are definitely the main reason for the stagflation of the 1970s. However, I do believe inflation targeting is a good idea which is what they are doing now.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
(snipped)

Maybe if that scale was logarithmic, it might make more sense.

I have perhaps a little less faith in the Fed than you, but that was a really good post. I was going to mention the need for a log graph, but I don't think most of the 'gold-diggers' would grasp what you're talking about. You'll probably just get resistance and people caliming that you're 'manipulating the numbers'. A graph of inflation rates, instead of price level would also show the steadying effect of the fed more effectively than the raw price level graph.

Using raw numbers for this graph is meant to convey a slanted meaning, and that's all.

I don't have as much faith in the Fed as you think. I think they are one of the large reasons for the start of the Depression and they are definitely the main reason for the stagflation of the 1970s. However, I do believe inflation targeting is a good idea which is what they are doing now.

There were periods in history where they did screw up, mostly because there were other issues outstanding, not to mention that back then it was still largely unknown what would happen. Modern economic theory didn't really kick in until the 50s. As far a the 70's is concerned, they had a lot of problems, foremost the energy crisis.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: morkinva
From david rockefeller's 2002 book memoirs,

For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have... attack[ed] the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

Learn from that quote what you will, then go back to sleep.

It will become real when we have no other choice. That people have been working towards a goal of removing fences is nothing new, nor terribly secret. Most people just don't care about it as much as the next episode of Survivor.

"We shall have world government whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World government will be achieved by conquest or consent".
James Paul Warburg, Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations, before the U.S. Senate, February 17, 1950

I'll leave it there, instead of giving cause to degenerate the thread further.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Lothar
Zero inflation, or lower unemployment?
You can't have both.

You can't have zero inflation without solving counterfitting, as it ads an additional shadow inflation all the time..

 

[Farang]

I love the armchair economists on this forum. You all contradict eachother and about 99% of the time have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Farang
I love the armchair economists on this forum. You all contradict eachother and about 99% of the time have no clue what you're talking about.

Mr Greenspan? Is that you?

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: Tango
That article has such a huge amount of inaccuracies, misrepresentations and just plain wrong concepts it cannot be just the product of ignorance. Let me guess.. are they selling Gold and Silver index funds?

Actually, if you look around the site, they are selling physical gold and silver.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: Tango
That article has such a huge amount of inaccuracies, misrepresentations and just plain wrong concepts it cannot be just the product of ignorance. Let me guess.. are they selling Gold and Silver index funds?

Actually, if you look around the site, they are selling physical gold and silver.

Which gives them all the more incentive to lie.