The Democratic Party Continues to Ignore Reality

[woolfe9998]

Victim blaming, huh? 40 years of virulent right wing agitprop have taken a toll on the American psyche, particularly wrt our attitudes about govt. It doesn't help that every time Repubs get to run it they try to break it or turn it to the advantage of the already advantaged financial elite.

Take this notion that smaller govt is always better govt. Our democracy is actually a buffer between us & the predatory nature of raw Capitalism. It's obvious that international Capitalism has scaled up tremendously over our lifetimes, gaining & concentrating power in the process. If govt doesn't scale up to match it we have an ineffective buffer against the malevolent greed & lust for power driving Capitalism itself.

Don't the people who voluntary subject themselves to this agitprop have some responsibility here? The mere existence of bullshit creates no obligation for the individual to consume it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No, 60% of voters are influenced by "the press." The other 40% bombard themselves with constant propaganda. The press is flawed, but it isn't propaganda.

If you're looking for cause, look at the very existence of the internet. It has caused us to polarize more than any other single factor.

He's right. The real problem is with the voters.

I didn't say it wasn't voters but I was thinking about the immediate factors which influence them. Most of us here are sophisticated to know the difference between real and "fake" but most people are not as in tune

 

[fskimospy]

Victim blaming, huh? 40 years of virulent right wing agitprop have taken a toll on the American psyche, particularly wrt our attitudes about govt. It doesn't help that every time Repubs get to run it they try to break it or turn it to the advantage of the already advantaged financial elite.

Take this notion that smaller govt is always better govt. Our democracy is actually a buffer between us & the predatory nature of raw Capitalism. It's obvious that international Capitalism has scaled up tremendously over our lifetimes, gaining & concentrating power in the process. If govt doesn't scale up to match it we have an ineffective buffer against the malevolent greed & lust for power driving Capitalism itself.

Why are the voters victims? They are getting exactly what they want. Voters don't care about policy, or at least rarely care about policy. They care about beating the other 'team' and hearing about how their particular tribe is better than the other tribe.

 

[Jhhnn]

Don't the people who voluntary subject themselves to this agitprop have some responsibility here? The mere existence of bullshit creates no obligation for the individual to consume it.

It's not a voluntary thing. That agitprop is insidious, ubiquitous & now woven into the discourse. It's been honed & refined by some of the best mind benders in the business who are well financed, employing the latest tech & techniques as well. They employ the new media of twitter, facebook & so forth quite masterfully.

A lot of people just don't have the wherewithal to see through it, both by accident & design. They don't think it through very far because they don't have to, not as it applies directly to daily life. We can believe in astounding falsehoods & still function at home & at work.

Where things go wrong is when higher orders of thinking are required. Witness Trump as President. The whole idea always was & remains completely absurd yet here we are, post-truth, with an increasing delta between conservative belief & reality itself.

 

[woolfe9998]

It's not a voluntary thing. That agitprop is insidious, ubiquitous & now woven into the discourse. It's been honed & refined by some of the best mind benders in the business who are well financed, employing the latest tech & techniques as well. They employ the new media of twitter, facebook & so forth quite masterfully.

A lot of people just don't have the wherewithal to see through it, both by accident & design. They don't think it through very far because they don't have to, not as it applies directly to daily life. We can believe in astounding falsehoods & still function at home & at work.

Where things go wrong is when higher orders of thinking are required. Witness Trump as President. The whole idea always was & remains completely absurd yet here we are, post-truth, with an increasing delta between conservative belief & reality itself.

I think what has happened is that the cultural divide has been widening, increasing cross-party animus, and elevating the demand for such propaganda, which in turn further increases the animus, in a vicious cycle.

It's still a choice though. I don't think voters must be automatons with no agency of their own. It isn't necessary to be that way. I don't get my view of reality from only the most biased left wing sources and when I do view such sources, I am often skeptical. Sorry, I have no sympathy for those who can't think for themselves. They reap what they sow.

 

[brandonbull]

Not that it should make the slightest difference but I'd far rather be associated with you than "The Smartest Person on the Internet". You and I may disagree, but Agent Orange as I think I'll call him (being toxic) is too emotionally unstable to have a conversation with.

Thanks??

I'm no Trump groupie but I think it's problematic that there are very powerful groups doing a lot of shady/criminal actions in order to de-legitimize portions of our government. I think most politicians are scum and have zero interest in making ordinary people's lives better and they should be called out and removed for it. The current trend of supporting violence, intentional misrepresenting of facts, and manipulation of the citizenry should not be tolerated. It doesn't matter if the Left or Right perform these actions because it is nothing short of complicit support of the highest level of corruption. You can bet that today's SJW will be tomorrow's Fascists because, if these actions go unchecked and are enabled, that Antifa monster will be looking for it's next victim. It's one thing to call Trump and the Repubs on the dumb crap they do, but don't lie and manipulate the facts in order to do it. The Left needs a good dose of "call outs" after the postmortem of the Obama administration as well.

 

[agent00f]

Hayabusa Rider: I dare agent00f to make any less sense.

agent00f: Save my spot in the safe place while I show you similarly strutting inabilities on sense making.

Fulfilling expectations by bragging about being too stupid to understand anything.

Not that it should make the slightest difference but I'd far rather be associated with you than "The Smartest Person on the Internet". You and I may disagree, but Agent Orange as I think I'll call him (being toxic) is too emotionally unstable to have a conversation with.

I don't think anyone ever doubted fair and balanced types are basically the less honest conservatives.

 

[dank69]

Thanks??

I'm no Trump groupie but I think it's problematic that there are very powerful groups doing a lot of shady/criminal actions in order to de-legitimize portions of our government. I think most politicians are scum and have zero interest in making ordinary people's lives better and they should be called out and removed for it. The current trend of supporting violence, intentional misrepresenting of facts, and manipulation of the citizenry should not be tolerated. It doesn't matter if the Left or Right perform these actions because it is nothing short of complicit support of the highest level of corruption. You can bet that today's SJW will be tomorrow's Fascists because, if these actions go unchecked and are enabled, that Antifa monster will be looking for it's next victim. It's one thing to call Trump and the Repubs on the dumb crap they do, but don't lie and manipulate the facts in order to do it. The Left needs a good dose of "call outs" after the postmortem of the Obama administration as well.

Yeah next thing you know the left will be questioning Trump's birthplace and religion. Hopefully we never see the day when the country stoops to that level. I mean, can you imagine?

 

[theeedude]

The reality is that GOP is creating a health care disaster, and Democrats need to be ready with a Medicare for all plan and pledge to pass it using the nuclear option if necessary.

 

[agent00f]

It's not a voluntary thing. That agitprop is insidious, ubiquitous & now woven into the discourse. It's been honed & refined by some of the best mind benders in the business who are well financed, employing the latest tech & techniques as well. They employ the new media of twitter, facebook & so forth quite masterfully.

A lot of people just don't have the wherewithal to see through it, both by accident & design. They don't think it through very far because they don't have to, not as it applies directly to daily life. We can believe in astounding falsehoods & still function at home & at work.

Where things go wrong is when higher orders of thinking are required. Witness Trump as President. The whole idea always was & remains completely absurd yet here we are, post-truth, with an increasing delta between conservative belief & reality itself.

Would you argue that these ones literally lack enough brain cells to understand their position and obligations?:

Thanks??

I'm no Trump groupie but I think it's problematic that there are very powerful groups doing a lot of shady/criminal actions in order to de-legitimize portions of our government. I think most politicians are scum and have zero interest in making ordinary people's lives better and they should be called out and removed for it. The current trend of supporting violence, intentional misrepresenting of facts, and manipulation of the citizenry should not be tolerated. It doesn't matter if the Left or Right perform these actions because it is nothing short of complicit support of the highest level of corruption. You can bet that today's SJW will be tomorrow's Fascists because, if these actions go unchecked and are enabled, that Antifa monster will be looking for it's next victim. It's one thing to call Trump and the Repubs on the dumb crap they do, but don't lie and manipulate the facts in order to do it. The Left needs a good dose of "call outs" after the postmortem of the Obama administration as well.

I didn't say it wasn't voters but I was thinking about the immediate factors which influence them. Most of us here are sophisticated to know the difference between real and "fake" but most people are not as in tune

Seems to me they only chose to appear that way whenever convenience, eg. degenerates need protecting or libtards need blaming.

 

[FelixDeCat]

What you liberals need to do is cheer on fellow liberal Republicans who are doing the most to stop Trump's agenda of MAGA.

 

[Jhhnn]

Would you argue that these ones literally lack enough brain cells to understand their position and obligations?:

I think they haven't been taught how to value or use the mental capacity that they have. Repub propagandists hit 'em through their blind spots, twiddle with their minds at a deep emotional level. By the time the election arrived they were punchy from being hit so often. That's true of too many Bernie supporters, as well.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah next thing you know the left will be questioning Trump's birthplace and religion. Hopefully we never see the day when the country stoops to that level. I mean, can you imagine?

Do you see your recent loss of faith in your fellow humans as a stoop in level. I do. I see a connection between fear of conservative insanity as having the same effects as the imbecilic concerns that conservatives are fearful of have on them. Fears can be rational or irrational but the effect on reason is much the same if you aren't paying attention.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think what has happened is that the cultural divide has been widening, increasing cross-party animus, and elevating the demand for such propaganda, which in turn further increases the animus, in a vicious cycle.

It's still a choice though. I don't think voters must be automatons with no agency of their own. It isn't necessary to be that way. I don't get my view of reality from only the most biased left wing sources and when I do view such sources, I am often skeptical. Sorry, I have no sympathy for those who can't think for themselves. They reap what they sow.

Very conservative of you to call it a choice. That's what conservatives do when they want to morally condemn people. If you could only look deeply you would see that humanity is asleep, in a robotic torpor, batteries that run the machine. We are programs and cannot be at cause. It is the ego's need to flatter itself that keeps you from seeing that. The ego thrives on attributing blame. It is a defense against the memories of our psychic deaths. If the truth were easy everybody would know it.

 

[dank69]

Do you see your recent loss of faith in your fellow humans as a stoop in level. I do. I see a connection between fear of conservative insanity as having the same effects as the imbecilic concerns that conservatives are fearful of have on them. Fears can be rational or irrational but the effect on reason is much the same if you aren't paying attention.

Of course I see it as a stoop in level. I've already told you I've decided to become a monster. If conservatives are going to consider me a monster anyway I might as well be one. Maybe Democrats will get more votes by all acting like monsters. It certainly works for the GOP. The worse they act the more votes they get. Haha, just joking. Liberals punish the shit out of Democrats for even a tiny slip-up, actual or even just PERCEIVED. So fuck it. Be monsters and get more GOP in control. Yippee Kai Yay Motherfucker!

 

[Indus]

What you liberals need to do is cheer on fellow liberal Republicans who are doing the most to stop Trump's agenda of MAGA.

Where can I find them again?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Of course I see it as a stoop in level. I've already told you I've decided to become a monster. If conservatives are going to consider me a monster anyway I might as well be one. Maybe Democrats will get more votes by all acting like monsters. It certainly works for the GOP. The worse they act the more votes they get. Haha, just joking. Liberals punish the shit out of Democrats for even a tiny slip-up, actual or even just PERCEIVED. So fuck it. Be monsters and get more GOP in control. Yippee Kai Yay Motherfucker!

You have reached a fork in your path and have decided to take the less human road and become a creature. Beware little monster that there are larger ones who will eat you or you will eat them and their evil which consumes you. But monsters aren't frightening to some. They are merely lost in a dark cave searching for their Precious and only to be pitied.

It is possible to come out of the dark valley but there is a price you may not be willing to pay.

 

[dank69]

You have reached a fork in your path and have decided to take the less human road and become a creature. Beware little monster that there are larger ones who will eat you or you will eat them and their evil which consumes you. But monsters aren't frightening to some. They are merely lost in a dark cave searching for their Precious and only to be pitied.

It is possible to come out of the dark valley but there is a price you may not be willing to pay.

Nah bro, both sides the same, doesn't matter who I vote for. Look! I'm too smart to be a partisan. You should be happy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nah bro, both sides the same, doesn't matter who I vote for. Look! I'm too smart to be a partisan. You should be happy.

And so it begins.

 

[brandonbull]

Yeah next thing you know the left will be questioning Trump's birthplace and religion. Hopefully we never see the day when the country stoops to that level. I mean, can you imagine?

I know. Darn Hillary and her Democrat supporters.

 

[Moonbeam]

Of course I see it as a stoop in level. I've already told you I've decided to become a monster. If conservatives are going to consider me a monster anyway I might as well be one. Maybe Democrats will get more votes by all acting like monsters. It certainly works for the GOP. The worse they act the more votes they get. Haha, just joking. Liberals punish the shit out of Democrats for even a tiny slip-up, actual or even just PERCEIVED. So fuck it. Be monsters and get more GOP in control. Yippee Kai Yay Motherfucker!

If only that were so, my dear dank, but you were in the dark as to what you feel. You didn't choose to become a monster, you ran into conditions that caused the monster that hid within you to come to the surface. Your attachment to the moral good of your liberal views have for a long long time been the shield behind which you hid that monster from yourself. I congratulate you on having discovered and expressed it. You may now begin to have a sense of what I mean by humanity is upside down, that down is up.

The good thing is that perhaps if you can see the futility of your own feelings, the utter hopelessness and ineffectuality of rage you will be able to feel your grief.

There is no hope for humanity, but there is hope for you. You are all alone with the weight of the world in the cross you must bear. To suffer is to end suffering. We alter reality to protect ourselves from our grief.

To die on the cross of grief is to resurrect. In that place you will know what it means to ask God to forgive what we do because we have no idea what it is that we feel.

To act out the violence done to us is to perpetuate it. To feel it all is the path to the light. Only you can do this but you won't be alone.

In the mean time enjoy being a monster, it's a big relief. Just try not to act out. If you want you can dump on me.

 

[agent00f]

Of course I see it as a stoop in level. I've already told you I've decided to become a monster. If conservatives are going to consider me a monster anyway I might as well be one. Maybe Democrats will get more votes by all acting like monsters. It certainly works for the GOP. The worse they act the more votes they get. Haha, just joking. Liberals punish the shit out of Democrats for even a tiny slip-up, actual or even just PERCEIVED. So fuck it. Be monsters and get more GOP in control. Yippee Kai Yay Motherfucker!

To the contrary, adopting reciprocating strategies per game theory is the pinnacle of rational behavior. It's only smart to counter degenerate strategies designed to take advantage of magnanimity.

If only that were so, my dear dank, but you were in the dark as to what you feel. You didn't choose to become a monster, you ran into conditions that caused the monster that hid within you to come to the surface. Your attachment to the moral good of your liberal views have for a long long time been the shield behind which you hid that monster from yourself. I congratulate you on having discovered and expressed it. You may now begin to have a sense of what I mean by humanity is upside down, that down is up.

The good thing is that perhaps if you can see the futility of your own feelings, the utter hopelessness and ineffectuality of rage you will be able to feel your grief.

There is no hope for humanity, but there is hope for you. You are all alone with the weight of the world in the cross you must bear. To suffer is to end suffering. We alter reality to protect ourselves from our grief.

To die on the cross of grief is to resurrect. In that place you will know what it means to ask God to forgive what we do because we have no idea what it is that we feel.

To act out the violence done to us is to perpetuate it. To feel it all is the path to the light. Only you can do this but you won't be alone.

In the mean time enjoy being a monster, it's a big relief. Just try not to act out. If you want you can dump on me.

If Jesus worked as advertised christians wouldn't be conservative.

 

[brandonbull]

To the contrary, adopting reciprocating strategies per game theory is the pinnacle of rational behavior. It's only smart to counter degenerate strategies designed to take advantage of magnanimity.



If Jesus worked as advertised christians wouldn't be conservative.

I guess some of that is how your interpret the whole giving away fish vs teaching someone to fish. I know that's not Jesus but doesn't that seem to be a conservative thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

I know. Darn Hillary and her Democrat supporters.

The birther in chief, Donald Trump, was not a Hillary supporter. Well, maybe in Trumpistan.

 

[hal2kilo]

What you liberals need to do is cheer on fellow liberal Republicans who are doing the most to stop Trump's agenda of MAGA.

What's a liberal republican. Rockefeller died in office a long time ago.

Correction: He was not in office when he died. (referring to Nelson of course)