The Democratic Party Continues to Ignore Reality

[Moonbeam]

This election proved that money has no say in who is elected. You can't blame this incoming disaster on the wealthy this time.

Never in the way that you mean by blame but to imply attribution as the source of this, you bet I do. The grip the wealthy have on power has destroyed our democratic system which is supposed to respond to the will of the people. Today the will of the people doesn't mean shit and they return the favor in the form of self destruction of the whole damn mess. The wealthy are at cause because they are the winners that in a system of competition the result of which is fear and hate, they use that fear and hate to divide people and retain power for themselves. They make sure our choices are limited to people who are of the system. They are as guilty of the self destruction we are witness to, as much as the rest of us, but moral responsibility is only possible for people who are awake. The wealthy are as asleep as everybody else and thus asleep, are beyond blame. Right now you see the hopelessness of the situation but you have yet to adjust to that reality by acceptance of that fact. The hopelessness of the situation still makes you angry, that people can be so blind they will hurt themselves and that anger is just that same destructiveness. Perhaps your hate will turn to pity and you won't be so petty and arrogant when you realize your hope was always one that could lead nowhere.

We are all the same. We are the image of God. There is nowhere to go, nothing to become, nothing to achieve. There is only the death of our illusions in the light of self realization. Who needs hope who has his being in paradise?

 

[brandonbull]

This is a good example of the problem the Democrats face, one of several good examples in this thread. You make a sound, factual argument as to why most Americans should prefer Democratic policies. You even have good data to support it. The problem is it's an appeal to intellect and reason instead of something that grabs you by the gut. It's too wordy. It's too wonky. Too many Americans lack the patience, and perhaps the critical thinking skills, to process arguments based on facts and reason. They want feels, not facts.

So, that's the challenge for the Democrats. How do they turn their well-reasoned arguments into compelling slogans and sound bites? How do they condense all their facts and figures into easy-to-digest feels. They have the steak, but they need to sell the sizzle. As someone (you?) noted above, Republicans are masters at this.

The idea of having the government tax away wealth from people and then turn around to trickle that down to others is insane. Unless people demand and are giving the money directly, the continual gap in wealth will continue. Instead of businesses owning the plantation, it will be the government. What will people be working for? Handouts from the government? Good thing the government isn't highly susceptible to corruption, fraud, and waste with the added bonus of managing the legal system.

So the same group of people, that are in charge of most of the various types of media that only present the dumbest shows and reality "sizzle", are stumped as to why the public is uninformed and has a short attention span? The left has spent decades creating the "dumb" American public through TV, movies, academia, and changes to societal norms. Looks like your short attention span, reality TV, SJW Frankensteins are not behaving the way Progressives would like. Well, DUH!! I also was under the impression that the Democrats are the party of the rich. Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Lawyers, Unions, and Wall Street. I'm sure those super rich have no problems with high taxes due to the way they have accumulated their wealth. I have a theory about how to reach troublesome people. It involves name calling and bullying them until they have an epiphany and see the light of the fact filled message from the wealthy elites.

 

[ivwshane]

The idea of having the government tax away wealth from people and then turn around to trickle that down to others is insane. Unless people demand and are giving the money directly, the continual gap in wealth will continue. Instead of businesses owning the plantation, it will be the government. What will people be working for? Handouts from the government? Good thing the government isn't highly susceptible to corruption, fraud, and waste with the added bonus of managing the legal system.

So the same group of people, that are in charge of most of the various types of media that only present the dumbest shows and reality "sizzle", are stumped as to why the public is uninformed and has a short attention span? The left has spent decades creating the "dumb" American public through TV, movies, academia, and changes to societal norms. Looks like your short attention span, reality TV, SJW Frankensteins are not behaving the way Progressives would like. Well, DUH!! I also was under the impression that the Democrats are the party of the rich. Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Lawyers, Unions, and Wall Street. I'm sure those super rich have no problems with high taxes due to the way they have accumulated their wealth. I have a theory about how to reach troublesome people. It involves name calling and bullying them until they have an epiphany and see the light of the fact filled message from the wealthy elites.

So the left is responsible for your stupidity? Got it!

 

[agent00f]

The idea of having the government tax away wealth from people and then turn around to trickle that down to others is insane. Unless people demand and are giving the money directly, the continual gap in wealth will continue. Instead of businesses owning the plantation, it will be the government. What will people be working for? Handouts from the government? Good thing the government isn't highly susceptible to corruption, fraud, and waste with the added bonus of managing the legal system.

So the same group of people, that are in charge of most of the various types of media that only present the dumbest shows and reality "sizzle", are stumped as to why the public is uninformed and has a short attention span? The left has spent decades creating the "dumb" American public through TV, movies, academia, and changes to societal norms. Looks like your short attention span, reality TV, SJW Frankensteins are not behaving the way Progressives would like. Well, DUH!! I also was under the impression that the Democrats are the party of the rich. Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Lawyers, Unions, and Wall Street. I'm sure those super rich have no problems with high taxes due to the way they have accumulated their wealth. I have a theory about how to reach troublesome people. It involves name calling and bullying them until they have an epiphany and see the light of the fact filled message from the wealthy elites.

Worked for racism; the conservatives white nationalists are still pretty sore about that.

 

[brandonbull]

So the left is responsible for your stupidity? Got it!

That is your response? And you accuse others of stupidity.

 

[brandonbull]

Worked for racism; the conservatives white nationalists are still pretty sore about that.

So you change the subject from economics to racism? You get an A for effort and a participation trophy.

 

[ivwshane]

That is your response? And you accuse others of stupidity.

I was clarifying your post. I'm not sure what else you need me to do for you. Do you need me to hold your head in my arms and tell you how special you are? I just find it odd that you blame media for making people stupid but you assume that you are too smart to fall for their dumbing down, especially given your posting history. If anything, you are a product of the very thing you condemn.

Don't worry little snowflake, pappy trump will make things all better for you.

 

[agent00f]

So you change the subject from economics to racism? You get an A for effort and a participation trophy.

You're about as smart as Hayabusa Rider:

I have a theory about how to reach troublesome people. It involves name calling and bullying them until they have an epiphany

Worked for racism; the conservatives white nationalists are still pretty sore about that.

But I suspect if you tried real hard and think on this for a few days the epiphany might finally arrive.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You're about as smart as Hayabusa Rider:

Looks like I have a stray following me around. https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-behavior/problem-behavior/happy-hump-day

 

[agent00f]

Looks like I have a stray following me around. https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-behavior/problem-behavior/happy-hump-day

We can make it a contest whether brandonbull figure his thing or you figure out what following around means first

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

We can make it a contest whether brandonbull figure his thing or you figure out what following around means first

You are fixated so every now and then I'll just poke back. Why not? It's not like it means anything. There's been worse.

 

[agent00f]

You are fixated so every now and then I'll just poke back. Why not? It's not like it means anything. There's been worse.

How does it make them look when your peers also brag about their failures?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How does it make them look when your peers also brag about their failures?

I dare you to make less sense.

 

[agent00f]

I dare you to make less sense.

Peers like brandonbull similarly strutting inability to understand anything. Btw, not a smart move to dare anyone to be more patronizing.

 

[shortylickens]

what the hell is a strutting inability?

 

[agent00f]

His inability is rather implied.

 

[sportage]

Yeah I get tired of MSNBC and so many others simply freaking out every night every show about what Trump did, has done, is going to do.
That isn't going to win democrats the congress or the presidency in 2020.
After all, GW Bush was re-elected and I expect Trump will be too.

What democrats need are for good people, competent people to run and win.
Where are the JFK's and LBJ's of tomorrow?
Where JFK knew how to play politics and was quite successful at the game.
And LBJ knew how to twist an arm, get something done, stir the people.
Given their personal flaws, they still were masters at the game of politics and winning.
Hillary was no JFK nor LBJ. She tried but just being a female wasn't enough to carry her over the finish line.
She was a poor politician and really bad at the game of politics.
Surely there are liberal progressive democrats out there that could be the next JFK, but the smart capable democrats are simply not interested in politics.
Not in todays world.
So in the mean time progressives will continue to gripe and rant and cuss and shake with anger, but none of that will win seats in congress or the presidency.

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah I get tired of MSNBC and so many others simply freaking out every night every show about what Trump did, has done, is going to do.
That isn't going to win democrats the congress or the presidency in 2020.
After all, GW Bush was re-elected and I expect Trump will be too.

What democrats need are for good people, competent people to run and win.
Where are the JFK's and LBJ's of tomorrow?
Where JFK knew how to play politics and was quite successful at the game.
And LBJ knew how to twist an arm, get something done, stir the people.
Given their personal flaws, they still were masters at the game of politics and winning.
Hillary was no JFK nor LBJ. She tried but just being a female wasn't enough to carry her over the finish line.
She was a poor politician and really bad at the game of politics.
Surely there are liberal progressive democrats out there that could be the next JFK, but the smart capable democrats are simply not interested in politics.
Not in todays world.
So in the mean time progressives will continue to gripe and rant and cuss and shake with anger, but none of that will win seats in congress or the presidency.

I feel like this is a common mistake. You can't equate JFK or LBJ with today because today JFK and LBJ would fail miserably. Institutional norms have dramatically decayed in the last 30 years and ideological polarization is through the roof. You can't make deals with the other party in Congress when they have no incentive to make a deal. Thank the electoral system, gerrymandering, and ideological self sorting for this.

It's long past time people stopped trying to blame politicians for our current system's problems. The real blame lies with the voters.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I feel like this is a common mistake. You can't equate JFK or LBJ with today because today JFK and LBJ would fail miserably. Institutional norms have dramatically decayed in the last 30 years and ideological polarization is through the roof. You can't make deals with the other party in Congress when they have no incentive to make a deal. Thank the electoral system, gerrymandering, and ideological self sorting for this.

It's long past time people stopped trying to blame politicians for our current system's problems. The real blame lies with the voters.

I think it's a much more complicated situation, although I agree with what you have so far. The press influences opinions and politicians. The molded by the powers that be- corporations, donors, editorial policies and owners of news sources, marketing and others and it all feeds back on itself.

These then craft the direction the voters are led into. Then voters have this huge force they don't understand and likely not even to know about.

So yes the voters assume a great part of the responsibility but it is not like there is an unbiased source whatsoever which allows for good judgement. In fact things are intentionally obscured more every year on top of an overwhelming wave in impossible to sort information. What is wheat and what is chaffe? There's no real way to say for sure.

 

[brandonbull]

Peers like brandonbull similarly strutting inability to understand anything. Btw, not a smart move to dare anyone to be more patronizing.

Hayabusa Rider: I dare agent00f to make any less sense.

agent00f: Save my spot in the safe place while I show you similarly strutting inabilities on sense making.

 

[brandonbull]

I was clarifying your post. I'm not sure what else you need me to do for you. Do you need me to hold your head in my arms and tell you how special you are? I just find it odd that you blame media for making people stupid but you assume that you are too smart to fall for their dumbing down, especially given your posting history. If anything, you are a product of the very thing you condemn.

Don't worry little snowflake, pappy trump will make things all better for you.

Do you actually have any original ideas or opinions where you don't call out posters and troll them with personally belittling comments?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hayabusa Rider: I dare agent00f to make any less sense.

agent00f: Save my spot in the safe place while I show you similarly strutting inabilities on sense making.

Not that it should make the slightest difference but I'd far rather be associated with you than "The Smartest Person on the Internet". You and I may disagree, but Agent Orange as I think I'll call him (being toxic) is too emotionally unstable to have a conversation with.

 

[fskimospy]

I think it's a much more complicated situation, although I agree with what you have so far. The press influences opinions and politicians. The molded by the powers that be- corporations, donors, editorial policies and owners of news sources, marketing and others and it all feeds back on itself.

These then craft the direction the voters are led into. Then voters have this huge force they don't understand and likely not even to know about.

So yes the voters assume a great part of the responsibility but it is not like there is an unbiased source whatsoever which allows for good judgement. In fact things are intentionally obscured more every year on top of an overwhelming wave in impossible to sort information. What is wheat and what is chaffe? There's no real way to say for sure.

I mean yes of course it's a complex system, but I think the primary driver is partisan polarization of voters. I think media plays a strong part as well but that's also very strongly influenced by voter choices. Fox News and Rush Limbaugh didn't rise out of nothing to start shaping conservative thought, conservatives self-selected into that media environment because they could still consume news while avoiding objective reporting that told them things they didn't want to hear.

Every source has its own bias but we're at the point where the distinctions couldn't be clearer, in my opinion. You have the mainstream press, which of course has its faults. It has a pro-sensationalism bias, a pro-institution bias, and a pro-government bias (meaning pro the views of whoever controls the government, liberal or conservative). That being said, it definitely attempts to adhere to its best understanding of what reality is for the most part. Conservative media abandoned any idea of that a long time ago if it ever had that idea to begin with. It's now a bubble that exists to validate the desires of its viewers and nothing else. In the end, people made choices to be deliberately misinformed because it made them feel better. That's once again on the voters.

 

[woolfe9998]

I think it's a much more complicated situation, although I agree with what you have so far. The press influences opinions and politicians. The molded by the powers that be- corporations, donors, editorial policies and owners of news sources, marketing and others and it all feeds back on itself.

These then craft the direction the voters are led into. Then voters have this huge force they don't understand and likely not even to know about.

So yes the voters assume a great part of the responsibility but it is not like there is an unbiased source whatsoever which allows for good judgement. In fact things are intentionally obscured more every year on top of an overwhelming wave in impossible to sort information. What is wheat and what is chaffe? There's no real way to say for sure.

No, 60% of voters are influenced by "the press." The other 40% bombard themselves with constant propaganda. The press is flawed, but it isn't propaganda.

If you're looking for cause, look at the very existence of the internet. It has caused us to polarize more than any other single factor.

He's right. The real problem is with the voters.

 

[Jhhnn]

I feel like this is a common mistake. You can't equate JFK or LBJ with today because today JFK and LBJ would fail miserably. Institutional norms have dramatically decayed in the last 30 years and ideological polarization is through the roof. You can't make deals with the other party in Congress when they have no incentive to make a deal. Thank the electoral system, gerrymandering, and ideological self sorting for this.

It's long past time people stopped trying to blame politicians for our current system's problems. The real blame lies with the voters.

Victim blaming, huh? 40 years of virulent right wing agitprop have taken a toll on the American psyche, particularly wrt our attitudes about govt. It doesn't help that every time Repubs get to run it they try to break it or turn it to the advantage of the already advantaged financial elite.

Take this notion that smaller govt is always better govt. Our democracy is actually a buffer between us & the predatory nature of raw Capitalism. It's obvious that international Capitalism has scaled up tremendously over our lifetimes, gaining & concentrating power in the process. If govt doesn't scale up to match it we have an ineffective buffer against the malevolent greed & lust for power driving Capitalism itself.