Originally posted by: heymrdj
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: heymrdj
This :thumbsup:
It's the pure fact we don't know jack shit about the "beginnings". We have scientists that claim they do, but we don't understand really. Until I see every single step laid out piece by piece with EVERY SINGLE LOOP HOLE that currently exists filled, I believe the THEORY of evolution is flawed. Evolution *does* exist in a limited way within individual species, but I do not believe it possible for us to have actually been created from it.
On this point I don't believe that I should be forced to pay for schooling I don't believe in. I believe schools should have to make it clear on every book, quiz, and test they print, *THIS IS THEORY*. It IS a religion. EVOLUTION AS THE ORIGIN OF MAN IS A RELIGION. Some people don't want to accept this, but the pure fact remains that it is unproven faith based belief.
1) The Theory of Evolution, as presented by Darwin and as taught by science curricula around the country, makes no claims about the origins of life.
2) I know we've been through this explanation, but theory in scientific terms does not carry the same lack of weight as theory in general terms. When something gets the theory label slapped on it, scientists are basically saying, "Theory X is a fact, unless something comes along to disprove it." Evolution has been around for nearly 200 years and nobody has found anything to disprove it. There are no disparities or incongruities amongst the body of evidence that Evolution explains.
3) You are arguing for "micro-evolution." I put it in quotes because it's something created to fight Evolution. It doesn't exist. The fossil records are pretty clear that many species have common ancestors, that fish existed before land creatures, and that animals like birds and descended from dinosaurs.
I'd encourage you to read more about what Evolution is and isn't before claiming to have made up your mind.
1. So in actuality, we're on near the same page. Yes Evolution exists, but it can't explain where we come from. And yet, why do all my science professors say that it does.
2. You can't disprove what has never been proven securely. It just so happens that in all the time we humans have been scientifically conscious, so to speak, we have not seen 1 organism evolve to another. Evolution just decided to stop with us eh?
3. I have studied it plenty and cannot see where this proof comes from. All the the "proof" is using facts that in themselves have not yet been thoroughly proven. The use of "dating" the fossil record alone is enough to prove this.
In response:
1. Have you ever read On the Origin of Species? Before you go off deriding a theory, I'd highly recommend you go straight to the source. Darwin never stated that his ideas were supposed to cover life's origins. In fact, he doesn't address life's origins at all.
2. Here is a source of your confusion. No species can simply evolve into another species like something at a magic show. I can't take a cat, stick it in a sink and, two weeks later, expect a duck to emerge. Evolution is about natural selection and genetic mutation. We see genetic mutations in humans all the time. Look at kids with Downs Syndrome, people with six toes, people with brown hair, short people, tall people, freakishly large people, freakishly hairy people, people with no pigment in their bodies, etc. Those are all mutations from which natural selection can work. The problem is that most of these are completely useless to the larger population. None of these confer any advantages and, often, they are hindrances to that person's life.
As a species, we live far removed from the natural world. We have hospitals to care for the sick. We have ways of helping those who are born with these horrible defects. Hence, WE work against natural selection. We have insulated ourselves from many of its effects by living in an environment devoid of natural predators.
However, let's think of some theoretical examples of how evolution could still work. In the future, as bacteria grow increasingly resistant to our drugs, potentially, our survival could come down to genetics. Those who are more genetically resistant to these bacteria would survive, those weren't would die. That's natural selection at work and, even though you wouldn't see people with third arms, that's how evolution functions. Slowly, at a plodding pace, natural selection weeds out what works best.
As for true species evolving, I don't quite know what you mean. The process takes hundreds of millions of generations and millions of years. We can't just expect an animal to evolve right in front of our eyes -- we simply don't live long enough! But, we have plenty of evidence of evolution. We have intermediary species and there are clear traits (along with time lines) that we can follow to show how one species morphed into another.
3. Citing specific examples would be helpful here because, so far, we've put together a pretty coherent story about life, how we arrived here today, and who our ancestors are.
4. I'd like to add one more point. I get the feeling many religious people think that scientists (what a great way to lump together all these people) are trying to pull a fast one over our eyes. They're trying to prop up Evolution even though it isn't a viable theory as a way of 'sticking it' to religion. That's just simply not true.
If someone had made scientifically credible discoveries that overturned Darwin, scientists would be climbing all over themselves to get their names on it.
As an example, look at Einstein. When he came along, physicists thought they had the world figured out. They only needed to actually detect the aether that held everything in place and explain the photoelectric effect. Unfortunately for them, the experiments to explain the aether went terribly and Einstein came along and showed everyone that electromagnetic radiation were not necessary waves. Those two discoveries opened up two new fields of science - relativity and quantum mechanics -- and turned the entire scientific world on its head. Einstein won his Nobel Prize for his work on the photoelectric effect, not for General or Specific Relativity.
Upending Evolution would be on such a scale. It would be such a massive revolution in scientific thinking that the man (or woman) who presented the new theory would be forever immortalized like Einstein or Darwin.
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