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The Cost of Ignorant Economic Isolationism Laid Bare

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UglyCasanova said:
As was discussed in another thread, ships can still dock and food can still be unloaded. May cost more, and they aren’t gonna have the customs in place that they probably want to regulate it, but they aren’t gonna starve.
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If there's no deal, no they literally cannot. Everything has to go through customs because not doing that will be ILLEGAL. As things stand the infrastructure needed in the entry points is not in place, the waiting times will be enormous. They might not starve, but shortages will be a very real thing and not just that, a bunch of stuff will become unrecognized and uncertified overnight which could lead to a slew of other problems for example flights being grounded etc.

So quit it with the bullshit hand-waving.
 
ecogen said:
This.
If you asked Leave voters what "Leave" actually meant you'd get 10 different answers ranging from EEA membership to full-retard-no-deal-wto Brexit. They were promised unicorns and now that it's becoming apparent that they're not getting them shit is gonna be fun. Hopefully Parliament finds its spine and somehow manages to either reject a no deal brexit or call a second referendum.
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We have older relatives in the south of England who voted to Leave.

When asked why, basically it was a protest vote against the heavy hand of the EU and all the rules and regulations they brought and the feeling of loss of sovereignty.

They didn't think Leave would actually happen, but the vote would serve as a shot across the bow. However, now that it was decided, they best get to it.


Although they didn't say it, the south has big demographic shifts due to the big influx of Eastern Europeans, with little ability to influence it.

Immigration from the Commonwealth countries was ~accepted as part of their duties from the empire, but Polish and Romanians? Coming in, undercutting wages, taking jobs and burdening the welfare system? That's a different story...

The Leave vote was shocking, but not actually all that surprising.
 
ecogen said:
If there's no deal, no they literally cannot. Everything has to go through customs because not doing that will be ILLEGAL. As things stand the infrastructure needed in the entry points is not in place, the waiting times will be enormous. They might not starve, but shortages will be a very real thing and not just that, a bunch of stuff will become unrecognized and uncertified overnight which could lead to a slew of other problems for example flights being grounded etc.

So quit it with the bullshit hand-waving.
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Brits are a staunch people, they'll figure it out.
 
Bitek said:
We have older relatives in the south of England who voted to Leave.

When asked why, basically it was a protest vote against the heavy hand of the EU and all the rules and regulations they brought and the feeling of loss of sovereignty.
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Classic conservative stupidity of feels over reals. I'm sure they'll be happy now that they'll be out of the EU and forced to either align their standards with us or the USA while having no say in it.

They didn't think Leave would actually happen, but the vote would serve as a shot across the bow. However, now that it was decided, they best get to it.
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No comment.

Although they didn't say it, the south has big demographic shifts due to the big influx of Eastern Europeans, with little ability to influence it.

Immigration from the Commonwealth countries was ~accepted as part of their duties from the empire, but Polish and Romanians? Coming in, undercutting wages, taking jobs and burdening the welfare system? That's a different story...

The Leave vote was shocking, but not actually all that surprising.
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This doesn't correspond to reality tho. European immigrants are a net positive when it comes to tax/benefits and the UK is free to deport ANY European immigrant that isn't part of the UK workforce after a certain amount of time (don't remember the exact timeframe.). Freedom of movement has conditions.

It's also funny to note that if you breakdown the vote by age and location, you'd find that most leavers were older hence less susceptible to the major downsides of brexit and less affected by immigration supposedly takin our jerbs and reducing our wages, and most leave areas were the ones that had lower number of migrants.
 
ecogen said:
If there's no deal, no they literally cannot. Everything has to go through customs because not doing that will be ILLEGAL. As things stand the infrastructure needed in the entry points is not in place, the waiting times will be enormous. They might not starve, but shortages will be a very real thing and not just that, a bunch of stuff will become unrecognized and uncertified overnight which could lead to a slew of other problems for example flights being grounded etc.

So quit it with the bullshit hand-waving.
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And you know what, if they need food it being illegal changes pretty quickly. They aren’t gonna starve chicken little.
 
UglyCasanova said:
And you know what, if they need food it being illegal changes pretty quickly. They aren’t gonna starve chicken little.
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Pray tell how will the UK change WTO rules? By saying "pretty please"? Or are they going to leave the WTO?

Seriously just accept that you're ignorant on the subject and stop. This is getting tiresome.
 
ecogen said:
Classic conservative stupidity of feels over reals. I'm sure they'll be happy now that they'll be out of the EU and forced to either align their standards with us or the USA while having no say in it.

No comment.

This doesn't correspond to reality tho. European immigrants are a net positive when it comes to tax/benefits and the UK is free to deport ANY European immigrant that isn't part of the UK workforce after a certain amount of time (don't remember the exact timeframe.). Freedom of movement has conditions.

It's also funny to note that if you breakdown the vote by age and location, you'd find that most leavers were older hence less susceptible to the major downsides of brexit and less affected by immigration supposedly takin our jerbs and reducing our wages, and most leave areas were the ones that had lower number of migrants.
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This is the reality tho. You are dealing with people with impressions and emotions, as well as a people with a very long history of independence and greatness.

Giving net benefit calculations to them and warnings of trade difficulties when they once had an empire that spanned the entire world, as well as still have bomb shelters in their gardens that saved them from the Kaizer's and the Furher's bombing runs is not terribly persuasive.

Their thought is "we've seen better, and we've seen worse. We'll make do just fine, thank you very much."
 
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Bitek said:
This is the reality tho. You are dealing with people with impressions and emotions, as well as a people with a very long history of independence and greatness.

Giving net benefit calculations to them and warnings of trade difficulties when they once had an empire that spanned the entire world, as well as still have bomb shelters in their gardens to save them from the Kaizer's and the Furher's bombing runs not terribly persuasive.

Their thought is "we've seen better, and we've seen worse. We'll make do just fine, thank you very much."
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Can't really argue with anything you said. Unfortunately, as they say "you can't cure stupid".

I really hope the UK manages to pull through this without going to the shitter, but things aren't looking too bright.
 
ecogen said:
If you still haven't understood why, then you're either very very unintelligent or a concern troll. I won't waste my time for either. Have a great day.
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This statement makes me think you don't understand the situation any more than the rest of us.
 
ecogen said:
Nah, it's just tiresome and pointless trying to convince flat earthers that the earth is actually round.
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That right there is what I'm getting at. Just tossing out "you're stupid" isn't discussion. I've been looking for Brexit information, mostly about how it came to be. What I've been able to find isn't in alignment with what most here are saying.
I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just curious because it plays into my basic belief that democracy doesn't really work.
 
ecogen said:
Can't really argue with anything you said. Unfortunately, as they say "you can't cure stupid".

I really hope the UK manages to pull through this without going to the shitter, but things aren't looking too bright.
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I take it as a cautionary tale.
 
Greenman said:
That right there is what I'm getting at. Just tossing out "you're stupid" isn't discussion. I've been looking for Brexit information, mostly about how it came to be. What I've been able to find isn't in alignment with what most here are saying.
I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just curious because it plays into my basic belief that democracy doesn't really work.
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I've explained why there would be shortages in my previous posts. Not gonna bang my head against the wall forever, at some point if the other party in a conversation just keeps hand waving away everything I just decide it's not worth arguing anymore, can you blame me?

Anyway last ditch attempt, here's an FT article on the issue which outlines some basic stuff.

https://www.ft.com/content/13acf2c0-90e4-11e8-b639-7680cedcc421
 
Greenman said:
That right there is what I'm getting at. Just tossing out "you're stupid" isn't discussion. I've been looking for Brexit information, mostly about how it came to be. What I've been able to find isn't in alignment with what most here are saying.
I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just curious because it plays into my basic belief that democracy doesn't really work.
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He explained it TWICE already, how many times does it take for you to get it?

It's exactly like trying to convince a flat earther that ignores all arguments and facts and just keep going "where is the evidence".
 
I'm looking forward to the pound dropping below the dollar. That's the price of sovereignty, when a freakin island nation decides that sovereignty means cutting off free trade.
 
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