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The consolidated New Hampshire primary results thread (let's try this again)

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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
Lol centrist democrats seem to be in love with the Bernie Bros... Why don't you... like... actually assess whether you like him as a candidate regardless of his base? The Bernie Bros narrative is getting old.
Yeh, their narrative is getting old. Reminds me of the Trumpster tribal narrative. "Hail Bernie! He is our voice! He alone can fix it! He is The One! The only way he can lose is if he's cheated!"

At least they don't have crooked Hillary to kick around any more.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
3,611
2,290
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They will do the same to any Democratic candidate.
Sure....Trump will attack the nominee viciously, whoever he/she is, and will brand them as "Socialist!!!" regardless. Most of the nominees will "scatter like cockroaches when the light goes on" if that happens, but Bernie will just lean into it. That's fine for Sanders to fully take ownership on, but I'm not sure those down ballot candidates who helped the Democratic Party gain control of the House by winning red districts will be thrilled. Moderates won those seats. By slim margins but they won. Whereas the Sanders wing which elevated the likes of AOC in already blue districts, did not flip one red district. The reality is moderate Dems. still rule the party and I don't see them as shrinking in numbers.

Swing state voters and red state voters haven't been rejecting moderate democrats over the years. Moderate democrats support protecting the welfare blanket, protecting and expanding civil rights, investing in education/healthcare/public utilities and green environmental initiatives too. If those people have been rejected as too much big government and rather they voted in favor of republicans who instead work to roll back those policies then it makes no sense that they would gleefully accept a loud and proud socialist as if that's what they have been waiting for all this time.

I think that anything can be Overton-Windowed into becoming acceptable. The real argument here is that some people think there’s a real yearning for a left-wing revolution in this country, and if we just appeal to the people who feel that, we’ll grow and excite them and we’ll win. It means building coalitions to win elections. So far I don't see Bernie building coalitions, it's not his strength. Bernie Sanders' brand of progressivism isn't dominating the party or the race. Bernie is sitting pretty because the moderates are fighting each other, but it's not clear how independent voters would respond to a two-way race between Sanders and Trump.

I'm not here to shit on Sanders or his supporters. But I'm concerned that Sanders would approach the election with an uncompromising hard left position without building the coalition of Dems and independents he NEEDS and that this might not be his moment the way he and his supporters envision.

Irony is that if Bloomberg and Sanders end up being the front runners for the nomination - all the big corporations and industry lobbying groups and Super PAC donors looking to buy influence are going to be shit out of luck. They are the only two that can’t be bought. Bloomberg’s buying it, but he isn’t selling it.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,003
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Heh. You merely confirm what I offered. Good job.
I'm just saying. This would expose all the contempt they have for progressives.

Yeh, their narrative is getting old. Reminds me of the Trumpster tribal narrative. "Hail Bernie! He is our voice! He alone can fix it! He is The One! The only way he can lose is if he's cheated!"

At least they don't have crooked Hillary to kick around any more.
Because the establishment has long ignored the plight of the poors and the state of the working class.

Ironically, they're just as "socialist" as he is, but the establishment limits this to privileging certain special interests over broad-based policies albeit Bernie also doubles down on some of that. Funny meme for some of the centrists here.



Sure....Trump will attack the nominee viciously, whoever he/she is, and will brand them as "Socialist!!!" regardless. Most of the nominees will "scatter like cockroaches when the light goes on" if that happens, but Bernie will just lean into it. That's fine for Sanders to fully take ownership on, but I'm not sure those down ballot candidates who helped the Democratic Party gain control of the House by winning red districts will be thrilled. Moderates won those seats. By slim margins but they won. Whereas the Sanders wing which elevated the likes of AOC in already blue districts, did not flip one red district. The reality is moderate Dems. still rule the party and I don't see them as shrinking in numbers.
That's true to an extent, but I think that would change if the establishment altered their platform, since a lot of people go to the moderate chow line despite liberal policies being popular (e.g. people generally think everyone should be paid more). They do the chow line because the establishment tells people Bernie is so radical/extreme.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
3,611
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I'm just saying. This would expose all the contempt they have for progressives.



Because the establishment has long ignored the plight of the poors and the state of the working class.

Ironically, they're just as "socialist" as he is, but the establishment limits this to privileging certain special interests over broad-based policies albeit Bernie also doubles down on some of that. Funny meme for some of the centrists here.





That's true to an extent, but I think that would change if the establishment altered their platform, since a lot of people go to the moderate chow line despite liberal policies being popular (e.g. people generally think everyone should be paid more). They do the chow line because the establishment tells people Bernie is so radical/extreme.
Is it ONLY the establishment "telling" people he is so radical or is it they actually think this on their own free will that he is radical. Now he’s going for swing voters and independents in parts of the country where socialist is synonymous and about as negative as calling someone a pedophile. If you want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and capitalism - In America? Good luck with that. Most independents and moderate dems already know the differences. Sure, they may like their police force, city parks, state parks, public libraries, fire rescue, public schools, publicly-funded roads, medicare, etc., but that, in the minds of most people, in America - isn't socialism.

We can argue about the differences between communist socialist and democratic socialist all day. All the republican PACs need to do to convince enough Americans that Bernie is the second coming of Lenin. There are videos of Bernie praising Castro and other communist regimes. Sure most are old and he’s gotten a lot better about not expressing those kind of comments in recent years but do you really think that matters? Even if it was 30 years ago how do you think those videos will play in a place like Florida? And you are talking about policies? I’m talking about his own words coming back to bury him in 30 second increments on TV. He got one-third the votes he did four years ago, the lowest vote percentage by any NH primary winner in history. From what I understand, turnout from NH voters under 30 was 50% higher in 2016. He’s got his diehards, but the vast majority of Democrats don't seem to be interested.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,003
542
126
Is it ONLY the establishment "telling" people he is so radical or is it they actually think this on their own free will that he is radical.
Both the leadership and their media darlings influence the voters, sometimes backfiring. Like the Republicans, I don’t think Democrats are immune to shifting more to their side either.


Now he’s going for swing voters and independents in parts of the country where socialist is synonymous and about as negative as calling someone a pedophile. If you want the election to hinge on an intelligent and nuanced conversation about the ideological differences between socialism and capitalism - In America? Good luck with that. Most independents and moderate dems already know the differences. Sure, they may like their police force, city parks, state parks, public libraries, fire rescue, public schools, publicly-funded roads, medicare, etc., but that, in the minds of most people, in America - isn't socialism.
Bernie is more of a known quantity now, yet he still polls well. He does well with independents and minorities. Btw, February matchups are the best we get until August. ; ) First Feb poll I’ve seen had Bernie +8 and others still strong. Broom Hilda was around 3-5+ in Feb, which is about what she would have gotten if Comey didn’t bias the election.


We can argue about the differences between communist socialist and democratic socialist all day. All the republican PACs need to do to convince enough Americans that Bernie is the second coming of Lenin. There are videos of Bernie praising Castro and other communist regimes. Sure most are old and he’s gotten a lot better about not expressing those kind of comments in recent years but do you really think that matters? Even if it was 30 years ago how do you think those videos will play in a place like Florida? And you are talking about policies? I’m talking about his own words coming back to bury him in 30 second increments on TV.
Yes, they’ll do that but who doesn’t know he’s Bernie the Red now? Democrats also won’t listen to Republicans nearly as much from those in their own party, I think. It goes with the polarization.

He got one-third the votes he did four years ago, the lowest vote percentage by any NH primary winner in history.
This is a funny talking point for two reasons: 1) the others are lower 2) of course Bernie would do worse since there’s like 8 more competitors.

From what I understand, turnout from NH voters under 30 was 50% higher in 2016. He’s got his diehards, but the vast majority of Democrats don't seem to be interested.
Bernie gets people out that won’t vote, right? At least that’s a common argument against him. Going after the people who vote Republican (which is just a small makeup of the overall turnout) with the polarization we have is a fool’s errand..

I think if the Democrats stop with the bad faith attacks against his “socialism”, the real Achilles heel might be the decriminalization of illegals.

Even Donnie’s advisors aren’t sure who to beat.

 
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mect

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2004
1,904
755
136
Yeh, that's why he got a crushing 26% in Iowa & New Hampshire. If he doesn't get the nom, will y'all stay home & pout, like 2016?
So does that mean that the other candidates are even worse, considering they all got less?

And can we please put that last lie to rest.

"as best as we can tell, more Sanders primary supporters voted for Clinton in the general election than Clinton supporters voted for Barack Obama in 2008."
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
So does that mean that the other candidates are even worse, considering they all got less?

And can we please put that last lie to rest.

"as best as we can tell, more Sanders primary supporters voted for Clinton in the general election than Clinton supporters voted for Barack Obama in 2008."
So what? Anybody who didn't stand up to Trump's raging bullshit had shit fer brains. Even with Caribou Barbie riding along, McCain looked downright sane & reasonable in comparison. I mean, Crooked Clinton the dirty cheater is gonna win anyway, right? Wrong, dumbshits. But go on & tell us all how you were oh-so right as we're getting buried under the Trump/GOP agenda. Think you can come up with an excuse to let Trump win again?
 

mect

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2004
1,904
755
136
So what? Anybody who didn't stand up to Trump's raging bullshit had shit fer brains. Even with Caribou Barbie riding along, McCain looked downright sane & reasonable in comparison. I mean, Crooked Clinton the dirty cheater is gonna win anyway, right? Wrong, dumbshits. But go on & tell us all how you were oh-so right as we're getting buried under the Trump/GOP agenda. Think you can come up with an excuse to let Trump win again?
Do you think all this mud slinging at Sanders supporters is going to help the Dems win?

Edit: Also, its extremely ironic that you are blaming Sanders supporters for coming up with excuses for Trump winning when its Hillary that lost to him. The whole blame Sanders gig is nothing but an excuse from Hillary supporters.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,003
542
126
So what? Anybody who didn't stand up to Trump's raging bullshit had shit fer brains. Even with Caribou Barbie riding along, McCain looked downright sane & reasonable in comparison. I mean, Crooked Clinton the dirty cheater is gonna win anyway, right? Wrong, dumbshits. But go on & tell us all how you were oh-so right as we're getting buried under the Trump/GOP agenda. Think you can come up with an excuse to let Trump win again?
Bullshit. A large portion of voters did not know at the time Trump was criming, in part by the media balancing negativity between Trump & Hillary.

Obama was also well-liked across the whole party with rockstar status. "Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran" McSame tells it all!
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126

I realize this is an opinion piece, but see the graphic from the Manifesto project.
I object to this part-

The Republican platform does not include the same bigoted policies, and its score is pushed to the right because of its emphasis on traditional morality and a “national way of life.”
Traditional morality? Like Trump & Limbaugh, or what? The only parts of that they've kept are the telling everybody else how to live parts.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
Bullshit. A large portion of voters did not know at the time Trump was criming, in part by the media balancing negativity between Trump & Hillary.

Obama was also well-liked across the whole party with rockstar status. "Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran" McSame tells it all!
Didn't know he was criming? That's downright lame. He's been notoriously dishonest since forever. They didn't care.
 

mect

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2004
1,904
755
136
I object to this part-



Traditional morality? Like Trump & Limbaugh, or what? The only parts of that they've kept are the telling everybody else how to live parts.
Okay, so that pushes the Republican Party and therefore the nation as a whole even further to the right on the political spectrum.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,003
542
126
Didn't know he was criming? That's downright lame. He's been notoriously dishonest since forever. They didn't care.
If you think Comey cost her roughly 1%, those were not just Bernie Bros. They were centrists who got scared over a trivial controversy, which somehow outweighed Trump's criming....
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
If you think Comey cost her roughly 1%, those were not just Bernie Bros. They were centrists who got scared over a trivial controversy, which somehow outweighed Trump's criming....
Mere assertion on your part. If anything, it just cemented the whole crooked Clinton cheater routine among those who'd been convinced to believe it because of Russian hacked emails & relentless slime attacks, largely after she'd won the Nom. And they never figured out how badly they were being manipulated & often still don't. I'm sure you'll try to keep the spirit of that alive, huh?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
73,404
7,267
126
I hope you guys eventually learn this is all pointless.
The person who wins the primaries is not running for president.
The person who bribes the DNC is running for president.
And they wont be using cash either.
They'll be using favors.
 
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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
57,970
10,360
126
I hope you guys eventually learn this is all pointless.
The person who wins the primaries is not running for president.
The person who bribes the DNC is running for president.
And they wont be using cash either.
They'll be using favors.
Yeh, be sure to tear down the only people who can rid us of Trump. Because reasons.
 
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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,375
1,315
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He and the Republicans control the Narratives, with the Status Quo. Those narratives being Tax Cuts, Program Cuts, De-Regulation, and Privatization. All the same things the Centrist Democrats support or are willing to accept. These policies are strangling the Middle and Lower classes.
Which democratic candidate has suggested any of those things?
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,375
1,315
126
I hope you guys eventually learn this is all pointless.
The person who wins the primaries is not running for president.
The person who bribes the DNC is running for president.
And they wont be using cash either.
They'll be using favors.
This shit get so old. So do you honestly think that every primary election is rigged by the DNC?
 

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