The Conroe a Hoax?

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Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
375
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According to this site, Conroe has a really bad weakness.

The following results were obtained by running 32 bit ScienceMark binaries optimized for Intel Pentium:

Molecular Dynamics
A64: 1872.68
Conroe : 2133.38 -- 14% faster

Primordia (Energy calculations for 1 atom)
Athlon64: 1506.83 -- 10% faster
Conroe: 1365.85

Cryptography
Athlon64: 1345.05 -- 26.3% faster
Conroe: 1065.59

STREAM
Athlon64: 1512.55 -- 21.7% faster
Conroe: 1242.94

The above results were for an Athlon overclocked to 2.8GHZ and a Conroe at 2.4GHZ, with the Athlon having a 16.7% clockspeed advantage. For a direct comparision at the same clockspeed, we normalize the Conroe scores by taking into account the frequency difference. Assuming the best scenario in which Conroe scores scale linearly with clock speed, we multiply the Conroe scores by a factor of 2.8/2.4. Thus, with a 2.8GHZ Conroe, we would have

Molecular Dynamics
Athlon 64 2.8GHZ: 1872.68
Conroe 2.8GHZ : 2133.38 * 2.8/2.4 = 2489 -- 32.9% faster

Primordia (Atom)
Athlon64 2.8GHZ: 1506.83
Conroe 2.8GHZ: 1365.85 * 2.8/2.4 = 1593.49 -- 5.7% faster

Cryptography
Athlon64 2.8GHZ: 1345.05 -- 8.2% faster
Conroe 2.8GHZ: 1065.59 * 2.8/2.4

STREAM *
Athlon64 2.8GHZ: 1512.55 -- 4.3% faster
Conroe 2.8GHZ: 1242.94 * 2.8/2.4 = 1450


ScienceMark is a strictly CPU/memory test, it doesn't involve video or disk I/O, it is basically a raw speed test. The ScienceMark is freely available from http://www.sciencemark.org/ for both Windows XP and Windows XP x64.

However, the above results showed a violent CPU performance fluctuation for Conroe, from it being 32% faster to being 8% slower. How can this be explained?
Click to expand...
link: http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/04/conroe-performance-claim-being-busted.html

If this is the case, then all those people who wanted to wait... I wonder how they feel....
 
S

Shimmishim

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2001
7,504
0
76
okay. this is based on one test and they don't even give the setup (what parts they were using).... and you can't normalize scores like that either... that's assuming that the 64 and conroe have the same IPC which they don't...

if you go visit the xs.org forums, intel section... there are a few members that have gotten their hands on the conroe and merom chips... and have been running tons of benches.

the conroe is faster than the amd a64 chips... it's not a myth... it's not a hoax... it's a fact

so for all of those people that are waiting... i don't know what the problem would be... they are waiting for a nice chip...
 
M

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
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I don't plan an upgrade for at least 6 months, the dust shall clearly be settled by then.........
 
D

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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71
D

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,275
965
136
HAHAHA, it's sharikou again. I really don't feel like spending time debunking his FUD any more, since it's Sunday, but I'll say this. A person must be exceptionally stupid to base a statement like "Conroe performance busted" with 4 random synthetic benchmarks compiled for the prescott. And he must be completely ignorant to question conroe's overall performance because the results show variability. Guess whichever school he went to for his PhD neglected to mention the perf s-curve, LOL.
 
B

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
1
0
this has been posted many many times here and in other forums, so forgive those of who are a little tired of hearning it. The fact is that this blogger has focused their attention on a few very specific numbers to try to make a point. However, they have ignored all facts that do not support their point of view. What you read there is nothing but FUD, designed solely to make you question what others have said about Conroe, and to make silly posts like this that will discourage others. No, Conroe is not a magical piece of hardware that will win every benchmark there is, but based on everything we've sen so far it will win a very substantial majority of them, including the games which many people care about.

However, if you want to believe this person for now, go ahead, real and in depth reviews will be comming before Conroe is realeased, so you will have all the information needed before you have to make a descision, and will not have to trust unreliable people like this.
 
S

Shimmishim

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2001
7,504
0
76
Originally posted by: BrownTown
this has been posted many many times here and in other forums, so forgive those of who are a little tired of hearning it. The fact is that this blogger has focused their attention on a few very specific numbers to try to make a point. However, they have ignored all facts that do not support their point of view. What you read there is nothing but FUD, designed solely to make you question what others have said about Conroe, and to make silly posts like this that will discourage others. No, Conroe is not a magical piece of hardware that will win every benchmark there is, but based on everything we've sen so far it will win a very substantial majority of them, including the games which many people care about.

However, if you want to believe this person for now, go ahead, real and in depth reviews will be comming before Conroe is realeased, so you will have all the information needed before you have to make a descision, and will not have to trust unreliable people like this.
Click to expand...

nice put. thanks.
 
D

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
0
0
Too bad the authors of ScienceMark has said the Sharikou blog is BS at best.
 
N

n19htmare

Senior member
Jan 12, 2005
275
0
0
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
Shimminshim... Can you explain this then?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95021&page=34

and what about what this guy also pointed out:
http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/04/clovertown-scores-revealed.html
Click to expand...


I agree...this has been talked about for 4 weeks plus now....Lets all wait for real reviews and not just by the morons at XS who stroke their epenises with superpi scores...
Click to expand...


SO what? Sharikou over there is stroking his epenis with Science mark.....

Most of the benches that have come out have proven conroe to be a TOP LINE processor. I know you keep saying wait for "REAL BENCHES" but comeon.... do you really think the conroe will totally flunk in whatever tests you wish it to take?

i think running multiple systhetic tests is enough to prove what Conroe is capable of.
 
A

Absolute0

Senior member
Nov 9, 2005
714
21
81
Originally posted by: Duvie
Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
Shimminshim... Can you explain this then?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95021&page=34

and what about what this guy also pointed out:
http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/04/clovertown-scores-revealed.html
Click to expand...


I agree...this has been talked about for 4 weeks plus now....Lets all wait for real reviews and not just by the morons at XS who stroke their epenises with superpi scores...
Click to expand...

XS has some of the best and brighest people in the global overclocking community, that's a pretty insulting comment to make for the people who go out of their way to pretest hardware and let the world know how it runs. Real bad attitude man.

We all know the Sharikou blog IS full of crap. Sciencemark is just about the only benchmark where AMD64s stand a chance. I'm coming at this from a perfectly objective point of view; i'm AMD man!

If you don't think Conroe is anything special, you have to reallly consider how the hell it managed to break just about every previous benchmark that people care about, all with beta motherboards and limited overclocking support.

 
E

Effect

Member
Jan 31, 2006
185
0
0
No one is doubting that the people at XS know what they're doing, and they are giving us an insight as to what conroe will be like, BUT, they do almost nothing but superPI tests, which is pretty much the epenis ruler/measurer. I mean, 14/15 sec superPI....erm....yay? Honestly, i dont care how long it takes my pc to calculate PI.....SuperPI has it's uses, but isn't exactly the holy grail of benchmark tools....

That Sharikou just wants a little limelight, can't blame him (or her), but it'll be a good laugh if conroe does turn out as good as it looks.
 
A

Absolute0

Senior member
Nov 9, 2005
714
21
81
Originally posted by: Effect
No one is doubting that the people at XS know what they're doing, and they are giving us an insight as to what conroe will be like, BUT, they do almost nothing but superPI tests, which is pretty much the epenis ruler/measurer. I mean, 14/15 sec superPI....erm....yay? Honestly, i dont care how long it takes my pc to calculate PI.....SuperPI has it's uses, but isn't exactly the holy grail of benchmark tools....

That Sharikou just wants a little limelight, can't blame him (or her), but it'll be a good laugh if conroe does turn out as good as it looks.
Click to expand...

Super Pi, All sandra tests, Cinebench, TMPG encoding, 3dmark06
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99466

Super Pi, 3dmark01, 3dmark03, Sandra, Cinebench, 3dmark06, 3dmark05, Aquamark3, Mandelbrot benchmark
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99342

Super Pi, Sandra, PassMark, TMPG encoding, 3dmark01, 3dmark03, 3dmark05, 3dmark06, and everything repeated at different speeds
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98919

Sure there's a lot of Pi, but when it takes 15 seconds to run, who can blame them??

What the hell more benchmarks could you ask for? Sandra and Pi with encoding and Cinebench cover 2d while EVERY 3dmark was run in addition to Aquamark3. You can't ask for much more : /
 
N

n19htmare

Senior member
Jan 12, 2005
275
0
0
Originally posted by: Absolute0
Originally posted by: Effect
No one is doubting that the people at XS know what they're doing, and they are giving us an insight as to what conroe will be like, BUT, they do almost nothing but superPI tests, which is pretty much the epenis ruler/measurer. I mean, 14/15 sec superPI....erm....yay? Honestly, i dont care how long it takes my pc to calculate PI.....SuperPI has it's uses, but isn't exactly the holy grail of benchmark tools....

That Sharikou just wants a little limelight, can't blame him (or her), but it'll be a good laugh if conroe does turn out as good as it looks.
Click to expand...

Super Pi, All sandra tests, Cinebench, TMPG encoding, 3dmark06
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99466

Super Pi, 3dmark01, 3dmark03, Sandra, Cinebench, 3dmark06, 3dmark05, Aquamark3, Mandelbrot benchmark
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99342

Super Pi, Sandra, PassMark, TMPG encoding, 3dmark01, 3dmark03, 3dmark05, 3dmark06, and everything repeated at different speeds
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98919

Sure there's a lot of Pi, but when it takes 15 seconds to run, who can blame them??

What the hell more benchmarks could you ask for? Sandra and Pi with encoding and Cinebench cover 2d while EVERY 3dmark was run in addition to Aquamark3. You can't ask for much more : /
Click to expand...

Well put.

I dunno what more people want to see? They keep saying REAL benchmarks but what the heck do you people want?
When your computer pulls of 14.xxx sec superpi then come talk smack.

From every benchmark given above, the Conroe comes out ahead but a very good margin.

There is a standard that we overclockers go by and how we compare the results and for that we have to use benchmarks that would be equal in all applications. thus synthetic benchmarks.

what other benchmarks do you people want?


 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,759
6,324
126
Originally posted by: Absolute0
Originally posted by: Effect
No one is doubting that the people at XS know what they're doing, and they are giving us an insight as to what conroe will be like, BUT, they do almost nothing but superPI tests, which is pretty much the epenis ruler/measurer. I mean, 14/15 sec superPI....erm....yay? Honestly, i dont care how long it takes my pc to calculate PI.....SuperPI has it's uses, but isn't exactly the holy grail of benchmark tools....

That Sharikou just wants a little limelight, can't blame him (or her), but it'll be a good laugh if conroe does turn out as good as it looks.
Click to expand...

Super Pi, All sandra tests, Cinebench, TMPG encoding, 3dmark06
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99466

Super Pi, 3dmark01, 3dmark03, Sandra, Cinebench, 3dmark06, 3dmark05, Aquamark3, Mandelbrot benchmark
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99342

Super Pi, Sandra, PassMark, TMPG encoding, 3dmark01, 3dmark03, 3dmark05, 3dmark06, and everything repeated at different speeds
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98919

Sure there's a lot of Pi, but when it takes 15 seconds to run, who can blame them??

What the hell more benchmarks could you ask for? Sandra and Pi with encoding and Cinebench cover 2d while EVERY 3dmark was run in addition to Aquamark3. You can't ask for much more : /
Click to expand...

Real World applications. Synthetic benchmarks are wishful thinking at best and are useless for basing a decision on.
 
A

Absolute0

Senior member
Nov 9, 2005
714
21
81
Yeah seriously, like what? Don't just say real world applications, leave it at that, and complain about the guys at Xtremesystems. If you REALLY want an answer why don't you ask them to run something? Hell name some "real world" applications and i can ask Coolaler to run them.

But, when it comes to gaming, it is going to be hard to do, because these guys got good stuff, but it's not like they're rich and have AMD and Conroe rigs lined up to test. They might not have an identical system with AMD components to test to. And with ALL the settings that influence gaming, you really need the same person doing the benchmarks on very similar computers to get fair scores.

For years we've accepted 3dmark as an indication of gaming, and Conroe scores well in 3dmark, 60K in 3dmark01, not to mention 177K in Aquamark 3 (which is, yes a little intel-biased but VERY indicative of gaming performance as far as the CPU to GPU power ratio goes).

Anyway if it's something these guys can download and run, by all means, say it.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,759
6,324
126
RealWorld is self-explanatory. They are actual Apps that people use to work or play with.
 
A

Absolute0

Senior member
Nov 9, 2005
714
21
81
So you don't trust Pi or synthetic benchmarks and yet you won't define a real world app for us?

Sounds like you are afraid of what Conroe would do in said real-world app. The dudes benchin' at XS aren't trying to HIDE the power of Conroe from REAL applications as you think, they are trying to show the world exactly how it performs in as many benchmarks as possible. You are thinking about this the wrong way.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,759
6,324
126
Originally posted by: Absolute0
So you don't trust Pi or synthetic benchmarks and yet you won't define a real world app for us?

Sounds like you are afraid of what Conroe would do in said real-world app. The dudes benchin' at XS aren't trying to HIDE the power of Conroe from REAL applications as you think, they are trying to show the world exactly how it performs in as many benchmarks as possible. You are thinking about this the wrong way.
Click to expand...

RealWorld is defined. I'm not afraid of anything, synthetic benchmarks are just useless.
 
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