Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
Ever heard of tariffs?
link
The north slapping a tariff on the south hurt the economy of the south badly. Most of the south (with the exception of the plantation owners) were poor and could not live a very good lifestile buying the expensive northern made goods that were inferior to foriegn goods (foriegn goods gecame out of reach after the tariffs). This was driving the bulk of the poor in the south deeper and deeper into poverty.
The majority of people in the south did not even own slaves
link
only 6% of all the white familys owned more than 20 slaves.
Most did not own any
One more thing, why does the north consider slaves only 3/5 human?
link
but just to clarify:
im an american first and a southerner 2nd, my family did not come over from germany untill long after the civil war was over anyways.
"Ding ding ding...
We have a winner...
Of course the revisionists have already done their work"
You have it all backwards. The revisionists are the people who deny the root cause was the South's reliance on slavery. Read the speeches of the people who led the leaving of the Union, at the time.
example-
"We but imitate the policy of our fathers in dissolving a union with non-slaveholding confederates, and seeking a confederation with slave-holding States."
http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/rhett.html
We have a winner...
Of course the revisionists have already done their work"
You have it all backwards. The revisionists are the people who deny the root cause was the South's reliance on slavery. Read the speeches of the people who led the leaving of the Union, at the time.
example-
"We but imitate the policy of our fathers in dissolving a union with non-slaveholding confederates, and seeking a confederation with slave-holding States."
http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/rhett.html
Babbles
Diamond Member
- Jan 4, 2001
- 8,253
- 14
- 81
Like it or not, the Confederate flag is part of history. As a previous poster mentioned, I am not sure if it should be flying on government property but I have no problem with people remember their historical past. That being said, though, it does seem as if the Confederate flag has taken an almost evil auroa to it.
Anyone who's ever dug deep into Civil War history would know that the issue over slavery was involved because Pres. Lincoln new that if that was a factor, then he could get the French to Ally with the northern states. the Civil War was actually started because the U.S. government wanted more control of matters of States rights concerning taxation (mostly of agricultural goods), military drafting, Rail Road construction, and international/interstate trade arrangements. Many northern states where also forced to end slavery, and because it wasn't as wide spread among the northern states (or as necissary for the type of economy in those states), they quickly agreed to Lincolns demands in order to assure the extra support from the French government. (Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, and Pensilvania, also had a fairly large number of slaves)
I'm not a supporter of slavery (some of my ancesters where in fact Irish slaves) but contrary to popular mis-belief the Confederate Union (and her flag) was formed several months before Pres. Lincoln brought slavery into the issue.
Another little known fact is that the United States is still technically under permanant marshal law (although it has unofficially ended...obviously). When Pres. Lincoln initiated martial law there where (and continue to be no) arrangements in our legal system to claim an end to martial law. If you go into any courtroom in the U.S. you will see a military flag, not a citizens flag.
I'm not a supporter of slavery (some of my ancesters where in fact Irish slaves) but contrary to popular mis-belief the Confederate Union (and her flag) was formed several months before Pres. Lincoln brought slavery into the issue.
Another little known fact is that the United States is still technically under permanant marshal law (although it has unofficially ended...obviously). When Pres. Lincoln initiated martial law there where (and continue to be no) arrangements in our legal system to claim an end to martial law. If you go into any courtroom in the U.S. you will see a military flag, not a citizens flag.
Originally posted by: NFS4
What culture? There is no more Confederacy. They lost the war. It's over!!!!!
Someone mentioned flying the Mexican flag, the German flag...last time I looked they are still countries.
Maybe I should wear a Dole '96 shirt
Dole and Doubles 2004!!!! If you are not with us, you are against us!!!!
" quote:
1833
A Compromise Tariff Act is passed as a means of gradually reducing the tariffs of concern in the southern states. Confrontation is averted with this compromise.
The north slapping a tariff on the south hurt the economy of the south badly. Most of the south (with the exception of the plantation owners) were poor and could not live a very good lifestile buying the expensive northern made goods that were inferior to foriegn goods (foriegn goods gecame out of reach after the tariffs). This was driving the bulk of the poor in the south deeper and deeper into poverty."
Yea, I know about tariffs. As you clearly pointed out the matter was resolved in 1833. It may have had an indirect influence on the eventual secession, but it was not the direct cause or secession would have happened much sooner.
And a complete analysis of why the South had the economy it had, and was hurt by the tariffs you mention, reveals that it was the South's reliance on slavery that held it's economy back. At least that's my opinion. I don't think slavery ever made economic sense, besides the fact that I consider it immoral.
1833
A Compromise Tariff Act is passed as a means of gradually reducing the tariffs of concern in the southern states. Confrontation is averted with this compromise.
The north slapping a tariff on the south hurt the economy of the south badly. Most of the south (with the exception of the plantation owners) were poor and could not live a very good lifestile buying the expensive northern made goods that were inferior to foriegn goods (foriegn goods gecame out of reach after the tariffs). This was driving the bulk of the poor in the south deeper and deeper into poverty."
Yea, I know about tariffs. As you clearly pointed out the matter was resolved in 1833. It may have had an indirect influence on the eventual secession, but it was not the direct cause or secession would have happened much sooner.
And a complete analysis of why the South had the economy it had, and was hurt by the tariffs you mention, reveals that it was the South's reliance on slavery that held it's economy back. At least that's my opinion. I don't think slavery ever made economic sense, besides the fact that I consider it immoral.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
I agree that slavery is immoral. My point was is to illustrate that the civil war was more broad than slavery and BTW on another note, i have never owned, nor ever will own a rebel flag, southern mississippi.
"My point was is to illustrate that the civil war was more broad than slavery. "
I think it depends on what part of the Civil War you mean. If you mean why did the Civil War happen, I don't think there were any reasons that aren't related to slavery.
If you mean why did people fight, on either side, then I agree there were lots of reasons unrelated to slavery, many of them honorable.
I think it depends on what part of the Civil War you mean. If you mean why did the Civil War happen, I don't think there were any reasons that aren't related to slavery.
If you mean why did people fight, on either side, then I agree there were lots of reasons unrelated to slavery, many of them honorable.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Lincoln/The Republican Party and Slavery
On the extreme fringe of the party were men like George W. Julian and Theodore Parker who spoke of the immorality of slavery. These radical social reformists were viewed as more of a political liability than those standing on the polar opposite of the ideological spectrum within the party. Indeed, a future Republican congressman from Pennsylvania declared in 1856 ?he cared nothing for the ?great person?? he had a higher mission to preach ? deliverance of the white man.?(1) The personification of Republican ideology Abraham Lincoln himself spoke on the issue during the Lincoln-Douglas Debates of 1858: ?There is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.?
He went a step farther to state: ?There must be the position of superior and inferior, I am as much as many other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.?(2) However, in a contention that at first sight appears contradictory, Lincoln simultaneously refused to back away from the idea that the near-holy American belief in the protection of the life, liberty, and property of every citizen extended to the Negro. Unlike his Northern Democratic opponent, to Lincoln and the majority of his supporters, the black man was, before all other things, human ? just of a lower order. With this ?not equal, but human? ideology did Lincoln and his Republicans of 1860 garner the greatest majority of support possible from the Northern electorate.
In general, spokesmen for the Republican Party kept ever in mind that while the majority sentiment of the North was opposed to slavery, it was not pro-Negro.
(1) William E. Gienapp, The Origins of the Republican Party (New York, 1987), p. 189.
(2) Damon Wells, Stephen Douglas: The Last Years, 1857-1861 (Austin, 1971), p. 105.
On the extreme fringe of the party were men like George W. Julian and Theodore Parker who spoke of the immorality of slavery. These radical social reformists were viewed as more of a political liability than those standing on the polar opposite of the ideological spectrum within the party. Indeed, a future Republican congressman from Pennsylvania declared in 1856 ?he cared nothing for the ?great person?? he had a higher mission to preach ? deliverance of the white man.?(1) The personification of Republican ideology Abraham Lincoln himself spoke on the issue during the Lincoln-Douglas Debates of 1858: ?There is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.?
He went a step farther to state: ?There must be the position of superior and inferior, I am as much as many other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.?(2) However, in a contention that at first sight appears contradictory, Lincoln simultaneously refused to back away from the idea that the near-holy American belief in the protection of the life, liberty, and property of every citizen extended to the Negro. Unlike his Northern Democratic opponent, to Lincoln and the majority of his supporters, the black man was, before all other things, human ? just of a lower order. With this ?not equal, but human? ideology did Lincoln and his Republicans of 1860 garner the greatest majority of support possible from the Northern electorate.
In general, spokesmen for the Republican Party kept ever in mind that while the majority sentiment of the North was opposed to slavery, it was not pro-Negro.
(1) William E. Gienapp, The Origins of the Republican Party (New York, 1987), p. 189.
(2) Damon Wells, Stephen Douglas: The Last Years, 1857-1861 (Austin, 1971), p. 105.
Originally posted by: FuZoR
yes but its also used by hate groups
Name a punk rocker that used the Confederate Flag.
Anubis
No Lifer
Originally posted by: jdini76
Originally posted by: FuZoR
yes but its also used by hate groups
Name a punk rocker that used the Confederate Flag.
iron cross != confederate flag
btw, the pope also wears an iron cross
They were not considered "slaves" . The people they worked for did not "own" them like they did in the south.
Ausm
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