Spydermag68
Platinum Member
If I had to do college over again I would of went into engineering.
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The Comp Sci Degree
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I am finishing a masters in computer science. I have had plenty of interviews and turned down some companies that I didn't like. I am sitting on one offer and still shopping for better offers. I am not disappointed in the salary offered so far or the opportunities that I have had. A lot of that has to do with coming from a large, connected in the industry school. I don't think that the knowledge of a computer scientist will ever be useless however it depends on what you are good at and what other skills you bring to the table. I got my offer not so much for my technical expertise but for my people skills. Every company has their evaluation criteria. Try working backwards from careers that you think you would enjoy. Talk to people in that field. Talk to recruiters at those companies and ask their opinions. Be courteous and I bet you could get a lot of information.
i did compsci in undergrad... had absolutely no problem finding well-paying good jobs. they pretty much fall into your lap once you have something of a network and a good reputation.
there are sort of two viewpoints of compsci though... if you come from a good program, there is really no problem finding a good job as a software engineer at a good company. if we're talking a big company like amazon or ms, then even testing jobs pay around 50k. but there are schools that seem to confuse compsci with IT (i guess this must be the reason why a lot of people get these two confused). just be aware that many people are talking about completely different fields in reality. the demand for good software engineers is very strong, at least in seattle.
there are sort of two viewpoints of compsci though... if you come from a good program, there is really no problem finding a good job as a software engineer at a good company. if we're talking a big company like amazon or ms, then even testing jobs pay around 50k. but there are schools that seem to confuse compsci with IT (i guess this must be the reason why a lot of people get these two confused). just be aware that many people are talking about completely different fields in reality. the demand for good software engineers is very strong, at least in seattle.
if you are going to take your CS degree and work in say IT and do like network server stuff, then yes wages are falling, etc.
if you want to write software in america.
i work at the 4th largest software company in america. we have trouble hiring qualified people and fly them in from other states. it is like that at a lot of companies now, where people are basically free agents.
friends of mine who work at other large companies say the same thing. it is just a matter of finding "good" people and not just some random lackey with a CS degree who isn't very bright.
make sure you minor in something, make sure you have people skills. sure there is outsourcing. but guess what? as far as we can tell the people we have outsourced to are terrible. people india apparently have 0 ingenuity, one of them actually asked my coworker for a "manual" to do his job like it was a factory.
anyways, if you are smart you will excel at whatever you will do. if you just want a job, don't get into this field. you need to know you want to do this, it is what will keep you ahead of everyone else.
if you want to write software in america.
i work at the 4th largest software company in america. we have trouble hiring qualified people and fly them in from other states. it is like that at a lot of companies now, where people are basically free agents.
friends of mine who work at other large companies say the same thing. it is just a matter of finding "good" people and not just some random lackey with a CS degree who isn't very bright.
make sure you minor in something, make sure you have people skills. sure there is outsourcing. but guess what? as far as we can tell the people we have outsourced to are terrible. people india apparently have 0 ingenuity, one of them actually asked my coworker for a "manual" to do his job like it was a factory.
anyways, if you are smart you will excel at whatever you will do. if you just want a job, don't get into this field. you need to know you want to do this, it is what will keep you ahead of everyone else.
What hans said. IT is a waste, but programmers and software engineers are always going to be in extremely high demand. However, take a few programming classes before you decide, the ratio of for wannabe CS majors and those who actually finish with a CS major without committing suicide is very high. Comp Sci is extremely hard, extremely demanding, and will devoid you of a social life once you start getting to assembly programming and the other difficult courses.
BullsOnParade
Golden Member
IT is a technician/maintainence position. Think Google, Oracle, Delphi etc.. rather than maintaining somebody's data and email.
ironchefjon
Junior Member
Some of my friends just graduated with Computer Science degrees with decent GPA's (3.2+). Three of them that I know personally was able to get a job within a month or two of graduating (without looking too hard). Pay ranged from $45k-$59k starting with no real experience. However, they live in Irvine and San Jose where programming and IT jobs are plentiful. I know some of my friends who have humanities degrees (libral studies, business) who managed to get cruddy jobs only paying $30k-$35k max.
Don't worry about the job market too much. Outsourcing won't be a problem because when you get hired as a programmer you work as a team where you regularly converse with each other and share ideas. This aspect of the job is critical when completing a project and can never be outsourced. In addition, many large companies require U.S. citizenship (no visa's) in order to work for them.
As others have mentioned, communication skills is one of the major requirements for a programming job, believe it or not. I've talked to many companies... time and time again they said they rather hire someone with great communcation skills and decent/good programming skills then someone who can't communicate with others but are great programmers.
Don't worry about the job market too much. Outsourcing won't be a problem because when you get hired as a programmer you work as a team where you regularly converse with each other and share ideas. This aspect of the job is critical when completing a project and can never be outsourced. In addition, many large companies require U.S. citizenship (no visa's) in order to work for them.
As others have mentioned, communication skills is one of the major requirements for a programming job, believe it or not. I've talked to many companies... time and time again they said they rather hire someone with great communcation skills and decent/good programming skills then someone who can't communicate with others but are great programmers.
seriously i graduated with a 2.6 gpa.
but i did leadership, public speaking, etc in college and i am a normal person who is well versed in things normal people talk about. those things help a lot at a software company. its funny, when you go to school writing code is a lot harder than the code a real company will use. and the social things demanded of you as an engineering major or probably far less than you'll need.
for example, i actually refered a friend to a job at a tv network doing php/mysql stuff through another friend that is already there. the friend who is already there, said they need to interview the person mainly to see if they have a good personality and will fit in. they just assume anyone who is not retarded and knows ANY programming language can eventually figure it out.
a friend of mine who works for ucla's engineering department actually said that after we graduated in 2003, enrollments dropped like 50% for compsci because no one wanted to be an engineer anymore (due to fears such as your own). it is also a tough major and people used to think it was only "worth" the pain if you got a job paying xyz $ after you got out. so guess what, this no one wants to major in it problem, is making a shortage of software engineers. and the limiting of h1-b visas and the industry's current dissatisfaction with the quality of outsourced work is going to contribute as well to increased demand for educated software engineers.
Syringer is right though. if you are not sure, take some classes. or buy a book and just see if you "catch on" quickly. software engineering is really just something that clicks with some people and is really easy, or just doesn't fly at all.
but i did leadership, public speaking, etc in college and i am a normal person who is well versed in things normal people talk about. those things help a lot at a software company. its funny, when you go to school writing code is a lot harder than the code a real company will use. and the social things demanded of you as an engineering major or probably far less than you'll need.
for example, i actually refered a friend to a job at a tv network doing php/mysql stuff through another friend that is already there. the friend who is already there, said they need to interview the person mainly to see if they have a good personality and will fit in. they just assume anyone who is not retarded and knows ANY programming language can eventually figure it out.
a friend of mine who works for ucla's engineering department actually said that after we graduated in 2003, enrollments dropped like 50% for compsci because no one wanted to be an engineer anymore (due to fears such as your own). it is also a tough major and people used to think it was only "worth" the pain if you got a job paying xyz $ after you got out. so guess what, this no one wants to major in it problem, is making a shortage of software engineers. and the limiting of h1-b visas and the industry's current dissatisfaction with the quality of outsourced work is going to contribute as well to increased demand for educated software engineers.
Syringer is right though. if you are not sure, take some classes. or buy a book and just see if you "catch on" quickly. software engineering is really just something that clicks with some people and is really easy, or just doesn't fly at all.
SilentZero
Diamond Member
Lots of jobs out there for people with B.S. and M.S. in CS! They aren't really that hard to find now days.
so i see, basically like others, i confused cs/programming with IT. IT is more networking, technician type of deal. I was thinking more of a software engineer, programming position. And also, do most software engineers have MS's? or should i go looking for a job right after my BS?
MIS.
It's a bitch, it's like nothing you've ever done before (probably), and it requires a lot of group work and big deliverables. But from what I've seen, it's worth it. Most of the people I know who graduated from our program have great jobs. One of them that graduated in 1999 is a senior manager with Siemens already.
It's a bitch, it's like nothing you've ever done before (probably), and it requires a lot of group work and big deliverables. But from what I've seen, it's worth it. Most of the people I know who graduated from our program have great jobs. One of them that graduated in 1999 is a senior manager with Siemens already.
OneOfTheseDays
Diamond Member
why noy do CSE? It never hurts to have a strong engineering background plus solid programming skills.
more money, more opportunities, more real world knowledge. don't get pigeon holed into a technology career and can go anywhere and do anything.
-edit- teach you how to run a business which what everybody wants to do eventually - own their own business and have other people make money for you.
i'd say it really depends on the program. the business kids at my school wouldn't know how to run a business if it hit them in the ass... less money, opportunities, real world knowledge than engineering. i don't think any business curriculum really gives you real world knowledge comparable with engineering, but if you go to a really good school like wharton then it's true, you at least have money and opportunity. but otherwise... don't fool yourself. bus. admin kids have some fantasy that they're going to come out with a bachelor's and just start running things... but if you look at successful business leaders, they by and large have had significant operational experience.
people that are pigeonholed into a technology career do it to themselves. people that switch over to business after engineering undergrad do really well for themselves, better than people that didn't really do anything substantive in undergrad.
and chances are, if you're in business, you'll go back for an MBA... at which point your business undergrad background is redundant. who's more impressive, compsci BS and MBA or business BA and MBA?
Most of the top tier schools don't even offer undergraduate degrees in crap like marketing. The only "business" degree they offer is economics. I suppose they probably have some sort of information systems program which can sort of parallel "business".
I agree with gopunk's assessment. MIS is in the business administration school where I go but it's VERY different. Most of the people I have my required inter-disciplinary classes with are idiots. I had a finance class with a girl who got up in the middle of a test, proclaimed "F this, I'm going shopping" and left.
I agree with gopunk's assessment. MIS is in the business administration school where I go but it's VERY different. Most of the people I have my required inter-disciplinary classes with are idiots. I had a finance class with a girl who got up in the middle of a test, proclaimed "F this, I'm going shopping" and left.
business MBA would trump a comp sci degree in that case.
I still firmly stand that there is more money and knowledge with a business degree. You may not see it out of school, but later in ones career it will be invaluable.
engineers have very little real world knowledge or business sense. And they don't get paid that well either. they are the grunts, the worker bees.
I still firmly stand that there is more money and knowledge with a business degree. You may not see it out of school, but later in ones career it will be invaluable.
engineers have very little real world knowledge or business sense. And they don't get paid that well either. they are the grunts, the worker bees.
Treyshadow
Senior member
Graduated Mccombs School of Business GPA 3.4 in MIS
If you want to go into IT, then go into IT with thr right information.
CS, programmer, tough to move into Management
CIS - Server / LAN more technical than MIS, but still has options to move into Management
MIS - Technical consulting, risk management, bid management, lots of ERP folks. This is where the US economy of high-end IT folks will be. Some will come from CIS, and some will come from out of the market. Graduating from a good university in MIS (That's management information systems) you have a chance to get a high paying initial IT job (> 50K) at least here in Texas. I graduated from UT Austin and made more than that on my first job out of college. Granted, you are just as much business as you are IT, so you are getting paid for your culmination of knowledge, and the ability to apply that knowledge.
Currently I am getting my MBA. Yes it was easier for me to go back and get my MBA than it is for someone who came from Comp sci. Why? because I was able to do more earlier in Management than they were. Also the most impressive is Engineering and MBA.
If I was to do it again, I would go EE with a Business minor or still stay in MIS. MIS is a good all around degree that puts you in front of many movers in the IT industry. However you may need to be more extroverted than most CS majors.
If you want to go into IT, then go into IT with thr right information.
CS, programmer, tough to move into Management
CIS - Server / LAN more technical than MIS, but still has options to move into Management
MIS - Technical consulting, risk management, bid management, lots of ERP folks. This is where the US economy of high-end IT folks will be. Some will come from CIS, and some will come from out of the market. Graduating from a good university in MIS (That's management information systems) you have a chance to get a high paying initial IT job (> 50K) at least here in Texas. I graduated from UT Austin and made more than that on my first job out of college. Granted, you are just as much business as you are IT, so you are getting paid for your culmination of knowledge, and the ability to apply that knowledge.
Currently I am getting my MBA. Yes it was easier for me to go back and get my MBA than it is for someone who came from Comp sci. Why? because I was able to do more earlier in Management than they were. Also the most impressive is Engineering and MBA.
If I was to do it again, I would go EE with a Business minor or still stay in MIS. MIS is a good all around degree that puts you in front of many movers in the IT industry. However you may need to be more extroverted than most CS majors.
business majors are grunts as well, just worse paid ones. any non-finance job an undergrad business major can get, a sharp engineering student can get (and finance jobs are gruntwork at entry level).
i didn't need to work for a long time to take a look and see that all the top people in my companies had operational experience... whether accounting, engineering, or whatever.
i think you may have misinterpreted my point about the MBA... business MBA w/ compsci degree trumps business MBA with business BA. MBAs are only for business (hence the B).
HardcoreRobot
Lifer
the only people that will tell you CS degrees are overkill/unnecessary are the ones that don't have them
BS CS, near MS CS for me. I have been very successful professionally and I attribute a lot of my opportunities to my degree.
BS CS, near MS CS for me. I have been very successful professionally and I attribute a lot of my opportunities to my degree.
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