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The Comp Sci Degree

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sohcrates

Diamond Member
Sep 19, 2000
7,949
0
0
CS degrees are still desirable. However, many people i know with CS have either expanded towards non-hardcore-programming jobs or gone back to school to get MBA's and such. it seems you can get a job in CS still, but there is not necessarily much room for advancement.

A lot of CS people seem to go work for big consulting firms, they are definitely hiring...but chances are pretty good you will burn out before becoming a partner or anything
 

TNM93

Senior member
Aug 13, 2005
965
0
0
I'm taking a computer science class and I fvcking hate it. It's dry and the job satisfaction ratings are not that high. My advice is to take Computer Science only if you have the drive for that subject and talent. Otherwise, there are better majors out there that are just as fulfilling.
 

jread

Senior member
Jan 20, 2005
544
0
0
Originally posted by: Treyshadow
Graduated Mccombs School of Business GPA 3.4 in MIS

If you want to go into IT, then go into IT with thr right information.

CS, programmer, tough to move into Management

CIS - Server / LAN more technical than MIS, but still has options to move into Management
MIS - Technical consulting, risk management, bid management, lots of ERP folks. This is where the US economy of high-end IT folks will be. Some will come from CIS, and some will come from out of the market. Graduating from a good university in MIS (That's management information systems) you have a chance to get a high paying initial IT job (> 50K) at least here in Texas. I graduated from UT Austin and made more than that on my first job out of college. Granted, you are just as much business as you are IT, so you are getting paid for your culmination of knowledge, and the ability to apply that knowledge.

Currently I am getting my MBA. Yes it was easier for me to go back and get my MBA than it is for someone who came from Comp sci. Why? because I was able to do more earlier in Management than they were. Also the most impressive is Engineering and MBA.

If I was to do it again, I would go EE with a Business minor or still stay in MIS. MIS is a good all around degree that puts you in front of many movers in the IT industry. However you may need to be more extroverted than most CS majors.

Ahhh! Someone local!

I'm currently struggling on which way to go with my graduate degree once I've finished my undergrad. I'm currently at St. Edward's University and plan to stay there for graduate school (I like it there and I can't stand the large public schools around here).

My undergraduate degree is going to be in Public Administration. Long story.... I was originially set on going into Urban Planning but later realized this was a bad idea. I am now entirely too far along in the Public Admin. program to change majors now, so I'm sticking with it.

Now, for graduate school, I am torn between two majors offered at the school:

- MBA with a concentration in MIS

- MS in CIS


The programs share many courses, though the MBA has the business aspect (obviously). The MS in CIS is a more technical degree, but still has a great deal of management courses throughout the curriculum. Both programs are in the business school and the MS and MBA students usually do their capstone projects together.

Also, if I were really insane and wanted to go into even more enormous student loan debt, they actually offer a JOINT program where you get BOTH master's degrees (MBA and MS in CIS). I don't think I have the patience or money for this, though.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide which of these degrees will benefit me more in the long run. I have been in a technical field for the past 8 years (Geographic Information Systems), though I'm not getting a technical undergrad degree. Public Administration also has a strong focus on management and finance, so maybe an MBA would be redundant. I'm not sure. Maybe someone can help me out with this decision.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Keep one thing in mind: When the people who seem eternally worried about outsourcing say their job is in comp sci, they're often wrong.

Not to belittle those reading here who work in those positions, but working helpdesk, doing PC assembly or desktop tech support isn't computer science. I can teach a reasonably literate 15 year old to do any of the above.

Modern computer science is about studying and bringing mathematical, scientific and engineering principles into play to develop applications or other pieces of code (among other things, of course). When 50%+ of development projects written right here in North America are declared 'failures' because of cost overruns or mismatched functionality to requirements, what person in their right mind brings the cultural divide and time lag into the mix? You simply don't send important development projects overseas.

So - the next time someone tells you to stay away from CS because Cousin Robert's job was outsourced, ask what exactly Robert's job used to be. It's a good bet it'll be one of the easily outsourced areas I mentioned.
 

qaa541

Senior member
Jun 25, 2004
397
0
0
I wish people would stop assuming computer science = I.T. Work. It's not. Not even close. Go to ITT Tech or get an MIS if you want to learn I.T. skills because you arent going to learn those skills in computer science. You learn everything about computers. What do you mean everything? <Gary Oldman>EVVVEERRRRRYYYYYTHINNNG! </Gary Oldman>

I mean seriously:
Programming and programming languages
System Architecture (like the logic behind CPUs)
Networking
Software Engineering (This is different from programinng!!!111oneoneone)
Algorthim Analysis
Compilers and Interpreters
Artificial Intelligence
Lots of horrid Linear Algebra and Discrete math.

Nowhere in this is how to operate Windows Server or UNIX servers or setup file servers or anything of the sort. No how to setup a Windows Domain or how to setup Exchange or anything related to IT.

2005 Information and Computer Science grad @ UC Irvine
 

josepavento

Member
Mar 15, 2004
198
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Keep one thing in mind: When the people who seem eternally worried about outsourcing say their job is in comp sci, they're often wrong.

Not to belittle those reading here who work in those positions, but working helpdesk, doing PC assembly or desktop tech support isn't computer science. I can teach a reasonably literate 15 year old to do any of the above.

Modern computer science is about studying and bringing mathematical, scientific and engineering principles into play to develop applications or other pieces of code (among other things, of course). When 50%+ of development projects written right here in North America are declared 'failures' because of cost overruns or mismatched functionality to requirements, what person in their right mind brings the cultural divide and time lag into the mix? You simply don't send important development projects overseas.

So - the next time someone tells you to stay away from CS because Cousin Robert's job was outsourced, ask what exactly Robert's job used to be. It's a good bet it'll be one of the easily outsourced areas I mentioned.

Ding Ding Ding!! You sir are correct!

My brother is a CS major. This past summer at the end of his Sophmore year, he applied for an internship and after lots of testing and interviews, he recieved it.

He made $22 an hour, with full medical/dental benefits, and paid vacation days. This is after two years of college, with no real life on the job experience. Now, my brother is also in the top of his class, and spends around 25 hours per week in the computer lab writting code. He's a super nerd. He's not the next super genious of the world, he's not going to win any nobel prizes. He's just a CS major with pretty darn good grades.

Now, if companies are outsourcing to different countries, and they don't need CS majors or code writters anymore...why did they pay my brother $22 an hour AS A SOPHMORE IN COLLEGE? Why did they offer him another well paying internship for this upcomming summer? I doubt it's his good looks and charm.

To the original poster I guess my point is this; if you go to college, work your butt off, and major in CS, you should have no problem getting a job.
 

Treyshadow

Senior member
Jan 31, 2000
937
1
81
Originally posted by: jread


Now, for graduate school, I am torn between two majors offered at the school:

- MBA with a concentration in MIS

- MS in CIS


The programs share many courses, though the MBA has the business aspect (obviously). The MS in CIS is a more technical degree, but still has a great deal of management courses throughout the curriculum. Both programs are in the business school and the MS and MBA students usually do their capstone projects together.



Also, if I were really insane and wanted to go into even more enormous student loan debt, they actually offer a JOINT program where you get BOTH master's degrees (MBA and MS in CIS). I don't think I have the patience or money for this, though.

If you have been in the industry for any extended length of time and feel that you are drifting toward more of a project management position or pure management position, I would go with the MBA.

The majority of the reason folks get the MS in CIS is they are technical and may prefer to remain that way. If you have aspirations to remain technical (keepin' it real!) then definately you should look towards the MS in CIS. If you are ready to move in a more operational specific direction or transition based project management I would look at the MBA with a serious eye.

Concentrate on asking yourself what job or type of work do you want to do after you get the degree, not what you think the degree will get you.

Oh and I am in Houston Now, though I wish sometimes I was back in Austin. Definately going to Threadgills this weekend for Sunday Brunch!
 

lukatmyshu

Senior member
Aug 22, 2001
483
1
0
Anyone who is insisting that there is no future in software engineering is either not looking, or is not qualified. My GROUP at the company I work for is trying to hire an engineer a day. We can't find them. My last company is trying to hire everyone (btw, it's nice having a guaranteed salary). The salary is incredible (I'm getting paid twice as much as some of my friends ... and my friends have very decent salaries) and the hours are fantastic. If you have an aptitude and a desire to be an engineer, go for it.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
keep in mind that the engineering and computer science classes you take in college are some of the most challenging classes that you can take. people seem to think a CS degree is a joke, but even getting one at a reputable college is going to take dedication and committment. getting an EE degree is even harder IMHO.

 

blipblop

Senior member
Jun 23, 2004
639
0
76
agreed. EE degree is no joke, currently 3rd year and planning to get my MSEE and eventually and MBA.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
18
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
business MBA would trump a comp sci degree in that case.

I still firmly stand that there is more money and knowledge with a business degree. You may not see it out of school, but later in ones career it will be invaluable.

engineers have very little real world knowledge or business sense. And they don't get paid that well either. they are the grunts, the worker bees.

well you can get an MBA after you have a CS degree. i know the ucla school of business 40% of the mbas admitted come from an engineering undergrad. so its not exactly uncommon, its probably desired. you know a manager who can actually relate to his worker bees are you call them is bettter than one who cant and gets no respect. it really doesnt matter what your undergrad was anyway, it is like the smallest factor in mba admissions since you have probably been working for 4-5 years at that point.

the ceo of veritas was a cs major btw. he was like 41.


as for the whole who can get into management thing. it really doens't matter as far as i can tell what your degree is. there are managers at my company who didnt go to college.
you just have to have people skills. that is what managing is about not about degrees, you cant teach leadership, you have it.

also a lot of computer science degrees are very engineering related. i got my comptuer science degree at ucla in 2003. it was in the engineering school so i had to take the same pre-reqs as all the other engineers.

itook like 3 electrical engineering classes, a couple circuit design labs, i swear like 8-9 math courses, physics the whole deal. it all ties together anyway, i know at ucla you can be eece, cse or pure cs. and its more just a leaning towards what you specialize in in the computer field.

lastly, for you guys still in college i totally envy the current job market. when i was 2 years through college as well as my friends, it was 2001 the dot coms just died and internships were no where to be found. you basically had to be a 4.0 student and some of my friends (me included) had a fairly rough time getting a "good" job coming out.

computer science does seem to have less hours for some. i generally work a 40 hour week at my company unless we are in crunch time which is like 3 months of the year where i may work more like 55 . i come in to work everyday at 11am sometimes later, leave 9 or 10 hours later. lunch is whenever i feel like, and we have a lot of time to "learn things on our own". that and i come in wearing baggy pants, random sports jerseys etc. we have no dress code. that is the environment of well a lot of development centers for larger companies. ours is a bit more relaxed, but its got some perks being an engineer.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: FrequencyX
Compsci is somewhat doomed IMHO ... IT job market is flooded with everybody and their Grandma with a Computer science degree. And they are all fighting for the same jobs. Way too many IT people and not enough jobs.
I have also noticed that we are doing alot more for alot less compared to the IT boom. Some cases programmers are making only 25000 a year. Not worth it I think... Ditch the Compsci and go for something along the lines of Business or Business Administration

this was meant to be funny right?

First there are a couple things to note...most talking of outsourcing don't even have degrees, and if they do they are non-experienced grads looking for a help desk spot.

Those making $25k as programmers are more than likely students, teenagers, or idiots.

I have a Comp Sci degree and it's been a requirement in a few of the jobs I have had now. Also however, was previous experience though.

I work mostly Mortgage bank IT/IS now, I had about 15 years of Mortgage banking experience on the operations side and about the same in IT/IS esp Hardware support.

The jobs I perform cannot be outsourced for the most part (some of the minor points of my job like Crystal Reporting and Web programming could be).

The key thing is today college is just an extension of high school for most people. You have to stand out to get that job.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: FrequencyX
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: FrequencyX
Compsci is somewhat doomed IMHO ... IT job market is flooded with everybody and their Grandma with a Computer science degree. And they are all fighting for the same jobs. Way too many IT people and not enough jobs.
I have also noticed that we are doing alot more for alot less compared to the IT boom. Some cases programmers are making only 25000 a year. Not worth it I think... Ditch the Compsci and go for something along the lines of Business or Business Administration

General business degrees are a waste.

Not quite according to MSN Money

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Savingforcollege/P59866.asp

Have any other ideas for a degree of study instead of just trolling?

Did you read that link or just look at the numbers under Business and think those were average salaries? That site reports life-time gains based on degree level.

In all categories Business degrees made less than Engineering and Computers overall.

 

kalster

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2002
7,355
6
81
Originally posted by: qaa541
I wish people would stop assuming computer science = I.T. Work. It's not. Not even close. Go to ITT Tech or get an MIS if you want to learn I.T. skills because you arent going to learn those skills in computer science. You learn everything about computers. What do you mean everything? <Gary Oldman>EVVVEERRRRRYYYYYTHINNNG! </Gary Oldman>

I mean seriously:
Programming and programming languages
System Architecture (like the logic behind CPUs)
Networking
Software Engineering (This is different from programinng!!!111oneoneone)
Algorthim Analysis
Compilers and Interpreters
Artificial Intelligence
Lots of horrid Linear Algebra and Discrete math.

Nowhere in this is how to operate Windows Server or UNIX servers or setup file servers or anything of the sort. No how to setup a Windows Domain or how to setup Exchange or anything related to IT.

2005 Information and Computer Science grad @ UC Irvine


Yeh IT is just computer management/server/MIS stuff which anyone can do , read a few books, get your MCSE etc

CS is more math than anything, and no I am not talking about web programming stuff
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: qaa541
I wish people would stop assuming computer science = I.T. Work. It's not. Not even close. Go to ITT Tech or get an MIS if you want to learn I.T. skills because you arent going to learn those skills in computer science. You learn everything about computers. What do you mean everything? <Gary Oldman>EVVVEERRRRRYYYYYTHINNNG! </Gary Oldman>

I mean seriously:
Programming and programming languages
System Architecture (like the logic behind CPUs)
Networking
Software Engineering (This is different from programinng!!!111oneoneone)
Algorthim Analysis
Compilers and Interpreters
Artificial Intelligence
Lots of horrid Linear Algebra and Discrete math.

Nowhere in this is how to operate Windows Server or UNIX servers or setup file servers or anything of the sort. No how to setup a Windows Domain or how to setup Exchange or anything related to IT.

2005 Information and Computer Science grad @ UC Irvine


Yeh IT is just computer management/server/MIS stuff which anyone can do , read a few books, get your MCSE etc

CS is more math than anything, and no I am not talking about web programming stuff

AFAIK, learning the programming is easy...that math and theory CS teaches you lets you become a better programmer if you can apply it. Also in my CS studies I was forced to make my own DB and access language from scratch. In another I had to program a motherboard.

Now I will admit alot of the skills I needed were learned outside the major, but they weren't that hard to learn.

Bottom line, having a degree is > than not once you enter the realm of six figure income.

If you want an easy $60k-75k (based on my area) get the MCSE and profit.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Actually for coding what I see is that stuff is what is outsourced the most.

Any monkey can do it.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
68
91
Originally posted by: MadOni0n
I'm in the process of choosing a major, and currently computer science is probably my top pick. Though i hear wages,etc. are going down due to outsourcing, can anyone working in the field currently give me their opinion on the whole situation, in addition to how the future is for comp sci majors? thanks.

Comp Sci means you have to keep on top of changing programming languages.

Something like Mechanical Engienering though.... those principles don't change much. Just hte tools you use change.

Honestly though, do what you have an inteest in. Happiness is more important than anything.

As for wages, no outsourcing isn't much of an issue.

AND COMP SCI IS NOT IT! IT is crap.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: MadOni0n
I'm in the process of choosing a major, and currently computer science is probably my top pick. Though i hear wages,etc. are going down due to outsourcing, can anyone working in the field currently give me their opinion on the whole situation, in addition to how the future is for comp sci majors? thanks.

Comp Sci means you have to keep on top of changing programming languages.

Something like Mechanical Engienering though.... those principles don't change much. Just hte tools you use change.

Honestly though, do what you have an inteest in. Happiness is more important than anything.

As for wages, no outsourcing isn't much of an issue.

AND COMP SCI IS NOT IT! IT is crap.

programming languages *are* your tools... the principles don't change in compsci either.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
exactly, the focus in college isn't to teach you how to learn programming languages. you are learning the basic tools that any good programmer needs.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually for coding what I see is that stuff is what is outsourced the most.

Any monkey can do it.

coding is different than programming though....

being from kentucky, I am not sure really what you see.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

AND COMP SCI IS NOT IT! IT is crap.

I don't get that statement.

I work both IS/IT...computer science covers them.

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Originally posted by: yllusNot to belittle those reading here who work in those positions, but working helpdesk, doing PC assembly or desktop tech support isn't computer science. I can teach a reasonably literate 15 year old to do any of the above.
You would think so but I work in the field and let me tell you, we get lots of people that are absolute horrible at tech support. From my experience, the only people any good with computer support are people who grew up with computers. Older people, no matter how many classes they take, are just never any good. If your 15 year old is already familiar to computers then you could probably turn him into a tech as easily as you claim but if the person has no aptitude for technical things (and the majority of the population does not) then it is a hopeless task.

I have a CS degree. When I graduated in 2003, the job market was absolutely horrible. I couldn't even get a help desk job let alone a software engineering job. I had an internship for 3 years at a software company as a QA guy and they wouldn't hire me when I graduated. They had sent 1/2 their programmers to China and laid off a ton of people. But now, I still can't find a software engineering job (although I haven't tried much as of late) but help desk jobs are super easy to get. The difference is like night and day! The success of a job hunt depends so much on the general state of the economy it's not even funny.