The brits are in for a rough ride

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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
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Looks like he's definitely got 100 members names and he would definitely win if put in front of the membership of the Tory party.
Only thing I can see stopping him is the 1922 lot getting cold feet about the ongoing investigations.
It's a small thing to pin your hope on, Boris Johnson doing the right thing and not standing for the sake of the Tory party.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
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I can't decide what result I'd want to see from this. In some ways, as ludicrous as it would seem, Johnson would actually be preferable to Sunak. Sunak would be Truss/Kwarteng but slicker and infinitely more competent. His supporters have already said, I think, that should he win he will continue with Hunt's agenda, i.e. more austerity.

On the other hand, Truss has so messed up the economy that Johnson couldn't now even make a token effort with all that 'levelling up' stuff. But I doubt he'd be so coldly-effective at imposing cuts as Sunak probably would be. When you don't like their agenda anyway, maybe the incompetent, untrustworthy one is preferable? I mean, a few Tory MPs have said they'll quit parliament if Johnson comes back - sounds good to me!

And, technically, it was Johnson that actually got elected in 2019.

The better option, obviously, is a general election, but short of 70 Tory MPs falling down the stairs or being hit by lightning, there seems no chance of getting one.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
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So now he's got 102 nominations and thrown the Tory party into chaos he says he's not going to stand!
The man is an absolute child!
I mean I don't want him to stand, and I'm ok with the Tory party falling apart but the shear childishness of 'look I know you all love me but... '
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
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So now he's got 102 nominations and thrown the Tory party into chaos he says he's not going to stand!
The man is an absolute child!
I mean I don't want him to stand, and I'm ok with the Tory party falling apart but the shear childishness of 'look I know you all love me but... '

As far as I can see it's only his claim that he has 102 nominations. There doesn't seem to be any independent verification of that figure (there were only 57 names listed when I last checked, but he's been claiming to have reached the 100 figure for some time). My guess would be he's backed out because he hadn't, in fact, reached 100.
Lucky (for the Tory Party) that they introduced that 100 MPs qualifying rule, because he'd surely have won had it gone to the membership.

I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather he'd won. It would have been worse for the Conservative Party, but possibly also worse for the country, so hard to say.

At least we'd know what we were getting. No idea what Sunak will be like - more austerity seems almost certain.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,330
10,232
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So now he's got 102 nominations and thrown the Tory party into chaos he says he's not going to stand!
The man is an absolute child!
I mean I don't want him to stand, and I'm ok with the Tory party falling apart but the shear childishness of 'look I know you all love me but... '
Reminds me of somebody from the U.S.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
As far as I can see it's only his claim that he has 102 nominations. There doesn't seem to be any independent verification of that figure (there were only 57 names listed when I last checked, but he's been claiming to have reached the 100 figure for some time). My guess would be he's backed out because he hadn't, in fact, reached 100.
Lucky (for the Tory Party) that they introduced that 100 MPs qualifying rule, because he'd surely have won had it gone to the membership.

I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather he'd won. It would have been worse for the Conservative Party, but possibly also worse for the country, so hard to say.

At least we'd know what we were getting. No idea what Sunak will be like - more austerity seems almost certain.
I suspect that its more that he's been told that if he's PM then might not survive the Commons privilege committee and there'd be another leadership contest in the new year.
I don't believe that he wouldn't get 100 nominations.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,751
6,367
136
So now he's got 102 nominations and thrown the Tory party into chaos he says he's not going to stand!
The man is an absolute child!
I mean I don't want him to stand, and I'm ok with the Tory party falling apart but the shear childishness of 'look I know you all love me but... '

He lied like he always does. Was never a 102.. maybe 12 at most.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
He lied like he always does. Was never a 102.. maybe 12 at most.
You need to remember that Tory MPs are self serving scum, and that Boris (somehow) is the highest polling Tory candidate and thus is the best way for them to keep their jobs.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
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You need to remember that Tory MPs are self serving scum, and that Boris (somehow) is the highest polling Tory candidate and thus is the best way for them to keep their jobs.

I don't agree. Not so much about the 'scum' part, but simply the idea that Johnson got the number of nominations that he claimed he did. The Guardian kept a running list of the names of every MP who openly said they were nominating him, and it only reached 57 or so, then Johnson started trying to get Mordor, or whatever her name is, to drop out so he could poach her backers. Really seemed like he was getting a bit desperate.

His "I've sadly decided to withdraw for the sake of party unity" shtick surely gives the game away? That sort of thing invariably means "I was going to lose".
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,403
136
I don't agree. Not so much about the 'scum' part, but simply the idea that Johnson got the number of nominations that he claimed he did. The Guardian kept a running list of the names of every MP who openly said they were nominating him, and it only reached 57 or so, then Johnson started trying to get Mordor, or whatever her name is, to drop out so he could poach her backers. Really seemed like he was getting a bit desperate.

His "I've sadly decided to withdraw for the sake of party unity" shtick surely gives the game away? That sort of thing invariably means "I was going to lose".
I have a hard time understanding why he would rush back to the UK only to say ‘I don’t feel like being PM’. The most likely answer is as you say - he went back to test the waters and found them unfriendly.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
136
Very likely he'd have won if it had gone to party members, of course. But he had to reach that 100 threshold first, and lots of big-names who had previously backed him openly defected to Sunak this time round.

Johnson's got a lot in common with Trump - he needs that narcissistic supply, he needs adulation. Failing to get the 100 MP threshold would have been unbearably humiliating.

I don't think he's _quite_ as crass about that need as Trump is, mind. It's kind of an interestingly subtle difference.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
I don't agree. Not so much about the 'scum' part, but simply the idea that Johnson got the number of nominations that he claimed he did. The Guardian kept a running list of the names of every MP who openly said they were nominating him, and it only reached 57 or so, then Johnson started trying to get Mordor, or whatever her name is, to drop out so he could poach her backers. Really seemed like he was getting a bit desperate.

His "I've sadly decided to withdraw for the sake of party unity" shtick surely gives the game away? That sort of thing invariably means "I was going to lose".
The nominations are private. The public ones are just the MPs that went public.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
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Johnson's got a lot in common with Trump - he needs that narcissistic supply, he needs adulation. Failing to get the 100 MP threshold would have been unbearably humiliating.

I don't think he's _quite_ as crass about that need as Trump is, mind. It's kind of an interestingly subtle difference.
Trumps got a history of money and yes men compounding his narcissistic tendencies, Boris has the class system and Eton education compounding his.
I think that they are different people but both are trained to blame any problems they have on other people.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
I have a hard time understanding why he would rush back to the UK only to say ‘I don’t feel like being PM’. The most likely answer is as you say - he went back to test the waters and found them unfriendly.
I think it's this.


If he's not PM they will probably keep it quiet but if he's PM it's a hand grenade thrown in to his admistration.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
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Now wondering if Doctor Who unexpectedly regenerating as one of his previous incarnations (David Tennant) was intended as some sort of reference to Johnson returning.

Instead, in a surprise twist, the PM regenerates as Rishi Sunak. It's still basically the same person though, no matter how many changes of form Tory Prime Ministers go through.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
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Pity that Prime Ministers don't regenerate with Special Effects, like Doctor Who, rather than via boring elections. The Tories do seem to be moving close to that, though, as they don't seem to bother with general elections any more.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,800
9,002
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I bet all the racists who voted for Brexit are thrilled that their actions resulted in the first brown Prime Minister. Brexit just keeps on owning these people.

Oh well, could be worse. At least he isn’t Polish. Or worse yet, Labour!
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
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Funny watching all the Tory MPs who previously came out for Johnson suddenly switch to endorsing Sunak - just a little bit too late. Apparently Javid had an article singing the praises of Johnson that appeared in the on-line Telegraph just as Johnson withdrew. Then half-an-hour later, Javid was declaring himself a fan of Sunak.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,800
9,002
136
I feel like Sunak now leads a party by default—no one else wants the pressure of the job and all the hard “governing” that needs be done, so they’re all too happy to coalesce around this young’un and prop him up for now—they will be just as happy using him as a fall guy and tearing him down from the back benches later if it suits them.

As a 43 year old Indian American with middling success in life, I just can’t wait to be compared with him by all the moms/aunties in my life.

1. Oxford & Stanford
2. Hedge fund manager
3. Married a billionaire’s daughter
4. Youngest finance minister ever?
5. British PM
… all before the age of 45.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
I feel like Sunak now leads a party by default—no one else wants the pressure of the job and all the hard “governing” that needs be done, so they’re all too happy to coalesce around this young’un and prop him up for now—they will be just as happy using him as a fall guy and tearing him down from the back benches later if it suits them.

As a 43 year old Indian American with middling success in life, I just can’t wait to be compared with him by all the moms/aunties in my life.

1. Oxford & Stanford
2. Hedge fund manager
3. Married a billionaire’s daughter
4. Youngest finance minister ever?
5. British PM
… all before the age of 45.
I'm not a fan of his politics but he was the least worst choice for the Tory party by a long way, unless they picked a relatively unknown safe pair of hands from the back benches as caretaker until a GE. Not that I think any sensible back bencher would take the job!
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,800
9,002
136
I'm not a fan of his politics but he was the least worst choice for the Tory party by a long way, unless they picked a relatively unknown safe pair of hands from the back benches as caretaker until a GE. Not that I think any sensible back bencher would take the job!

I’ve heard people say Penny Mordaunt is just as brain-dead as Liz Truss, but without a heart too. Don’t know much about her other than her inexperience though.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,972
7,891
136
He seems the best choice for a Tory Party sane enough to care about its own self-interest (obviously it's far from a given that that describes the actual existing party).

He appears smart and competent. However, I'm not convinced that's ideal for the rest of us given what use he's likely to put his smarts to. Johnson's incompetence and lack of seriousness was surely the best thing about him. He'd have wrecked the Conservative Party had he had a second go at it.

Nobody really knows what Sunak's agenda is though, given how rapid his rise has been. Very hard to know what to expect.

He really is Rishi Rich. He's like a children's comic strip character whose defining characteristic is 'being rich'.



 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
I’ve heard people say Penny Mordaunt is just as brain-dead as Liz Truss, but without a heart too. Don’t know much about her other than her inexperience though.
She's a lot cleverer than Truss but that's a very low bar. She's a much better public speaker as well.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,907
2,058
126
I feel like Sunak now leads a party by default—no one else wants the pressure of the job and all the hard “governing” that needs be done, so they’re all too happy to coalesce around this young’un and prop him up for now—they will be just as happy using him as a fall guy and tearing him down from the back benches later if it suits them.

As a 43 year old Indian American with middling success in life, I just can’t wait to be compared with him by all the moms/aunties in my life.

1. Oxford & Stanford
2. Hedge fund manager
3. Married a billionaire’s daughter
4. Youngest finance minister ever?
5. British PM
… all before the age of 45.
I could be wrong about this, because I know little of British politics. But it's funny to hear Sunak is a fiscal conservative, because when I read about his most recent tenure in government, he would be what you'd call a "moderate Republican" in the U.S. Of course, no such thing still exists today except for someone like Joe Manchin. Sunak has raised taxes, and approved some modest direct relief against soaring energy prices. Things that not a single GOP Congressperson would ever vote for in the U.S. Mainly, it sounds like he wants to pay for any new government spending and as a policy starting point, that isn't wholly unreasonable.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,332
7,987
136
I could be wrong about this, because I know little of British politics. But it's funny to hear Sunak is a fiscal conservative, because when I read about his most recent tenure in government, he would be what you'd call a "moderate Republican" in the U.S. Of course, no such thing still exists today except for someone like Joe Manchin. Sunak has raised taxes, and approved some modest direct relief against soaring energy prices. Things that not a single GOP Congressperson would ever vote for in the U.S. Mainly, it sounds like he wants to pay for any new government spending and as a policy starting point, that isn't wholly unreasonable.
You can't really look at UK politics through a US lens.