"The Boss" letter making the rounds

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
As others have mentioned, higher taxes obviously don't help small business. I just think people blow the negative effects of a minor increase in taxes like this way out of proportion.

Not to mention businesses will benefit from government spending. If the new administration can deliver on reduced private health care costs, that would greatly reduce the burden on businesses (especially small businesses, which I understand are usually hit the hardest by health insurance, assuming they can even afford to offer it to employees). Infrastructure spending can potentially help businesses. For example, with government spending on broadband infrastructure, businesses may be able to get faster connections at a cheaper price than they would otherwise. Et cetera.

Lol...I get it...the trickle down effect. :roll: Between the huge downturn in the economy and now an additional 5% for Uncle Sam....I don't see a lot of good things happening here. We have small businesses employing 50% of our workforce and 'virtually' nothing in the stimulus package is going to directly help them. What gives?

Every dollar for infrastructure is going to help small businesses.

How?

Are you really that thick?

The infrastructure and stimulus will keep people working... Or at least keep from being more layoffs and massive depression if the banking system crumbles. Those people that are working are buying goods and services from small (and large) businesses, keeping them afloat. If the banking system collapses, then we get massive unemployment and no-one is buying products and services cuz we're all broke... Or we're saving our cash just in case we get laid off.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE
Oh yeah cause the *booming* tech industry that was around with the massive amount of money that brought in had nothing to do with it.

I know lets raise taxes on business when there is no booming brand new industry that is bringing in a ton of cash, I mean it is the * exact* same situation.

Yeah, like I said, you are dense.

There is never a good time to raise taxes in your eyes, if the economy is booming well raising taxes will slow it down, if things are bad then raising taxes will make it worse.

You're just against higher taxes regardless of the purpose, so it really doesn't matter what you say, you're intellectually dishonest.

Or dense, as others have called it.

Actually, a good time to raise taxes somewhat is during a major boom where business owners will not feel it as much. We missed that opportunity. It is your idiotic ilk who has some notion that "we have to get em now when the getting good" who think its a good idea to tax business owners and take more money away from them when they are already struggling due to the economy.

How about we stop bailing out the ghettos and trailer parks with the backs of people who actually work?


Can you explain to me how raising taxes on business is going to help the economy. Let us see if anyone of you idiots can do that.

Yeah raising taxes to pay for programs you don't believe in. You have this warped sense that we're helping poor stupid people, so the almost 9% of people unemployed right now are all sad sack losers? What a shitty and erroneous attitude.

What is it that you do for society again? What's your tax bracket chump?

I bet you'd support raising taxes to give more money to Israel.

You didn't answer how raising taxes is going to help business in this economy.

Come on now, you must think somewhat? Or did they skip that point in your daily "Why business is bad" newsletter. You should email them and tel them to include it next time.

Since you're such an expert on what real work is and who the real bootstrappers are in this economy. What do you do for a living?

Someone has to pay for the stimulus, and in this case it's the only people who can afford to, the richest 2% which includes some small business owners. These are people who did as a group, much, much better under Bush's tax policies than the rest of society. The stimulus is being put into effect and has already saved thousands of jobs which would have evaporated, but those are all lazy trailer park asshole's right?

Also, do you even know when these are supposed to take effect? It's not anytime soon and is contingent upon the economy turning around.

You still didn't answer the question. Are you unable too? How does this tax increase help small business which employ so many Americans?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Parroting? No, Not Parroting, I am friends with multiple small business owners. Not everyone on P&N is a basement dwelling armchair bitching idiot. (Most of the left is it seems).

I asked a question earlier, how will raising taxes help small business. Can you answer that Mr. I am small business?

Oh, I didnt realize you have "Friends" that own small businesses. That makes you an expert then. My friend is a doctor - maybe I can remove someone's appendix.

Anyhow, repealing the Bush tax cuts is NOT a move designed to help small business. Its designed to get mo money to the govt. Duh...

The point is that it is NOT going to break the backs of any sized business. The economy sucking is what is breaking thier backs.

So you don't mind the massive bailouts being given to the banks as long as you don't really have to pay for them is what I am getting?

So we can hang small business out to dry because the jones spent too much money on there mortgage is what you are saying?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
As others have mentioned, higher taxes obviously don't help small business. I just think people blow the negative effects of a minor increase in taxes like this way out of proportion.

Not to mention businesses will benefit from government spending. If the new administration can deliver on reduced private health care costs, that would greatly reduce the burden on businesses (especially small businesses, which I understand are usually hit the hardest by health insurance, assuming they can even afford to offer it to employees). Infrastructure spending can potentially help businesses. For example, with government spending on broadband infrastructure, businesses may be able to get faster connections at a cheaper price than they would otherwise. Et cetera.

Lol...I get it...the trickle down effect. :roll: Between the huge downturn in the economy and now an additional 5% for Uncle Sam....I don't see a lot of good things happening here. We have small businesses employing 50% of our workforce and 'virtually' nothing in the stimulus package is going to directly help them. What gives?

Every dollar for infrastructure is going to help small businesses.

How?

Are you really that thick?

The infrastructure and stimulus will keep people working... Or at least keep from being more layoffs and massive depression if the banking system crumbles. Those people that are working are buying goods and services from small (and large) businesses, keeping them afloat. If the banking system collapses, then we get massive unemployment and no-one is buying products and services cuz we're all broke... Or we're saving our cash just in case we get laid off.

Are you here to discuss ideas or to flaunt your 'superior intellect'?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
As others have mentioned, higher taxes obviously don't help small business. I just think people blow the negative effects of a minor increase in taxes like this way out of proportion.

Not to mention businesses will benefit from government spending. If the new administration can deliver on reduced private health care costs, that would greatly reduce the burden on businesses (especially small businesses, which I understand are usually hit the hardest by health insurance, assuming they can even afford to offer it to employees). Infrastructure spending can potentially help businesses. For example, with government spending on broadband infrastructure, businesses may be able to get faster connections at a cheaper price than they would otherwise. Et cetera.

Lol...I get it...the trickle down effect. :roll: Between the huge downturn in the economy and now an additional 5% for Uncle Sam....I don't see a lot of good things happening here. We have small businesses employing 50% of our workforce and 'virtually' nothing in the stimulus package is going to directly help them. What gives?

Every dollar for infrastructure is going to help small businesses.

How?

Are you really that thick?

The infrastructure and stimulus will keep people working... Or at least keep from being more layoffs and massive depression if the banking system crumbles. Those people that are working are buying goods and services from small (and large) businesses, keeping them afloat. If the banking system collapses, then we get massive unemployment and no-one is buying products and services cuz we're all broke... Or we're saving our cash just in case we get laid off.

Are you here to discuss ideas or to flaunt your 'superior intellect'?

Superior Intellect? He parrots shit he heard on CNN. 5% of the Stimulus package will go to "infrastructure". People are getting fucked and don't even know it. Most of the money is going to unemployment and propping up the states. States that already can't pay there bills are going to be using the stimulus to keep paying there bills, thats it.

Not to mention, I would love to see his reasoning how that 5% to infrastructure is going to help all the small businesses being taxed even more now.

The money is going to the government black hole to prop up states and extend unemployment benefits and pay the interest on the debt. LOL at people who think tax money now is going to help them at all.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
As others have mentioned, higher taxes obviously don't help small business. I just think people blow the negative effects of a minor increase in taxes like this way out of proportion.

Not to mention businesses will benefit from government spending. If the new administration can deliver on reduced private health care costs, that would greatly reduce the burden on businesses (especially small businesses, which I understand are usually hit the hardest by health insurance, assuming they can even afford to offer it to employees). Infrastructure spending can potentially help businesses. For example, with government spending on broadband infrastructure, businesses may be able to get faster connections at a cheaper price than they would otherwise. Et cetera.

Lol...I get it...the trickle down effect. :roll: Between the huge downturn in the economy and now an additional 5% for Uncle Sam....I don't see a lot of good things happening here. We have small businesses employing 50% of our workforce and 'virtually' nothing in the stimulus package is going to directly help them. What gives?

Every dollar for infrastructure is going to help small businesses.

I hope you don't actually believe that bullshit.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
As others have mentioned, higher taxes obviously don't help small business. I just think people blow the negative effects of a minor increase in taxes like this way out of proportion.

Not to mention businesses will benefit from government spending. If the new administration can deliver on reduced private health care costs, that would greatly reduce the burden on businesses (especially small businesses, which I understand are usually hit the hardest by health insurance, assuming they can even afford to offer it to employees). Infrastructure spending can potentially help businesses. For example, with government spending on broadband infrastructure, businesses may be able to get faster connections at a cheaper price than they would otherwise. Et cetera.

Lol...I get it...the trickle down effect. :roll: Between the huge downturn in the economy and now an additional 5% for Uncle Sam....I don't see a lot of good things happening here. We have small businesses employing 50% of our workforce and 'virtually' nothing in the stimulus package is going to directly help them. What gives?

Meh, I honestly don't think I've ever claimed supply side doesn't work. Obviously leaving more money in the hands of the entrepreneurs is good, some of that money will inevitably be used for job creation. My main gripe with supply side is that I think it benefits the elite far more than everybody else. IMO direct government investment in industry is a more efficient way to spur the economy. And I would have liked to see less welfare and more industry and infrastructure spending in the stimulus bill, I won't disagree with you there. Some of the spending in the bill should be very good for everybody, though (for example, spending for smart grid technology and health IT).

Reading around, it also sounds like these tax increases won't be affecting many small businesses that actually employ people. It seems like there's a lot more fiction than fact being thrown around about these tax increases.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...o_co/fact_check_budget

The following statement in your linked article is a blatant falsehood, so it has absolutely zero credibility IMO. It appears to be "agenda driven" propaganda written by and for the partisan sheeple amongst us:
"But for one thing, most small businesses don't create jobs."

Here's the facts:
The Small Business Share of GDP, 1998-2004
Small firms:
? Represent 99.7 percent of all employer firms.
? Employ about half of all private sector employees.
? Pay nearly 45 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
? Have generated 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs annually over the last decade.
? Create more than half of nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
? Hire 40 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer workers).
? Are 52 percent home-based and 2 percent franchises.
? Made up 97.3 percent of all identified exporters and produced 28.9 percent of the known export value in FY 2006.
? Produce 13 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms; these patents are twice as likely as large
firm patents to be among the one percent most cited.

With small businesses being such an integral part of our economy; it's hard for me the visualize how large infrastructure projects are going to directly stimulate this incredibly important sector of our economy. Sure...maybe some of those dollars will trickle down to this sector...but, meaningful stimulus? I don't see it. And any kind of tax increase is probably the last thing they need right now...regardless of how the 'enlightened ones' want to spin it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Superior Intellect? He parrots shit he heard on CNN. 5% of the Stimulus package will go to "infrastructure". People are getting fucked and don't even know it. Most of the money is going to unemployment and propping up the states. States that already can't pay there bills are going to be using the stimulus to keep paying there bills, thats it.

Not to mention, I would love to see his reasoning how that 5% to infrastructure is going to help all the small businesses being taxed even more now.

The money is going to the government black hole to prop up states and extend unemployment benefits and pay the interest on the debt. LOL at people who think tax money now is going to help them at all.

Anyone else think it's a bit strange that the same guy believes both that:

1.) The government can set up a massive surveillance program to monitor every citizen in the United States effectively.

2.) The government is incompetent, a 'black hole' when it comes to spending tax money.

Maybe they should just hire these ultra-competent surveillance guys to run the tax part, because we seem to have a severe disparity in talent going on here.

 

[frostedflakes]

Well the gist of the article was that most small businesses who actually create jobs will not be affected by the income tax increase. Small business is obviously an important part of the economy, that sentence about it not creating jobs sounds like poor choice of words on the part of the author. Hardy reason enough to disqualify the rest of the article, though.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE
Oh yeah cause the *booming* tech industry that was around with the massive amount of money that brought in had nothing to do with it.

I know lets raise taxes on business when there is no booming brand new industry that is bringing in a ton of cash, I mean it is the * exact* same situation.

Yeah, like I said, you are dense.

There is never a good time to raise taxes in your eyes, if the economy is booming well raising taxes will slow it down, if things are bad then raising taxes will make it worse.

You're just against higher taxes regardless of the purpose, so it really doesn't matter what you say, you're intellectually dishonest.

Or dense, as others have called it.

Actually, a good time to raise taxes somewhat is during a major boom where business owners will not feel it as much. We missed that opportunity. It is your idiotic ilk who has some notion that "we have to get em now when the getting good" who think its a good idea to tax business owners and take more money away from them when they are already struggling due to the economy.

How about we stop bailing out the ghettos and trailer parks with the backs of people who actually work?


Can you explain to me how raising taxes on business is going to help the economy. Let us see if anyone of you idiots can do that.

Yeah raising taxes to pay for programs you don't believe in. You have this warped sense that we're helping poor stupid people, so the almost 9% of people unemployed right now are all sad sack losers? What a shitty and erroneous attitude.

What is it that you do for society again? What's your tax bracket chump?

I bet you'd support raising taxes to give more money to Israel.

You didn't answer how raising taxes is going to help business in this economy.

Come on now, you must think somewhat? Or did they skip that point in your daily "Why business is bad" newsletter. You should email them and tel them to include it next time.

Since you're such an expert on what real work is and who the real bootstrappers are in this economy. What do you do for a living?

Someone has to pay for the stimulus, and in this case it's the only people who can afford to, the richest 2% which includes some small business owners. These are people who did as a group, much, much better under Bush's tax policies than the rest of society. The stimulus is being put into effect and has already saved thousands of jobs which would have evaporated, but those are all lazy trailer park asshole's right?

Also, do you even know when these are supposed to take effect? It's not anytime soon and is contingent upon the economy turning around.

You still didn't answer the question. Are you unable too? How does this tax increase help small business which employ so many Americans?

Why don't you answer my question, I'll tell you why, because you're a student who's never had a real fucking job and hasn't paid shit for taxes, yet you want to point fingers at other people.

So keep your ill informed opinions to yourself, when you're out of your diapers and have experience in the workplace then perhaps you'll be more able to form opinions based on facts.

Furthermore, I won't be answering your question because it's a strawman. No one, not me, not Obama has said that raising taxes is supposed to help small businesses, you are conflating two unrelated things.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Parroting? No, Not Parroting, I am friends with multiple small business owners. Not everyone on P&N is a basement dwelling armchair bitching idiot. (Most of the left is it seems).

I asked a question earlier, how will raising taxes help small business. Can you answer that Mr. I am small business?

Oh, I didnt realize you have "Friends" that own small businesses. That makes you an expert then. My friend is a doctor - maybe I can remove someone's appendix.

Anyhow, repealing the Bush tax cuts is NOT a move designed to help small business. Its designed to get mo money to the govt. Duh...

The point is that it is NOT going to break the backs of any sized business. The economy sucking is what is breaking thier backs.

So you don't mind the massive bailouts being given to the banks as long as you don't really have to pay for them is what I am getting?

So we can hang small business out to dry because the jones spent too much money on there mortgage is what you are saying?

No, that's not what I am saying at all... The fact that we need these bailouts pisses me off... Come on, it pisses everyone off. I think there are a whole lot of politicians and CEO's that should be put in jail for this (actually, I personally believe in the death penalty and these asses, should all be shot)... And homowners that bought beyond their means should lose thier houses, the dumbshits...

However, the reality is that the damage is already done and we cant go back in time to undo it. Since it already happened and we cant go back in time to stop it from happening, we HAVE to keep the banks, AIG, etc etc afloat or we WILL completely destroy the economy.

Small business is not "hung out to dry"... Stop the drama.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: RichardE

Superior Intellect? He parrots shit he heard on CNN. 5% of the Stimulus package will go to "infrastructure". People are getting fucked and don't even know it. Most of the money is going to unemployment and propping up the states. States that already can't pay there bills are going to be using the stimulus to keep paying there bills, thats it.

Not to mention, I would love to see his reasoning how that 5% to infrastructure is going to help all the small businesses being taxed even more now.

The money is going to the government black hole to prop up states and extend unemployment benefits and pay the interest on the debt. LOL at people who think tax money now is going to help them at all.

Anyone else think it's a bit strange that the same guy believes both that:

1.) The government can set up a massive surveillance program to monitor every citizen in the United States effectively.

2.) The government is incompetent, a 'black hole' when it comes to spending tax money.

Maybe they should just hire these ultra-competent surveillance guys to run the tax part, because we seem to have a severe disparity in talent going on here.

No, its not strange at all... It's typical right wing hypocracy... Par for the course. =)

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Well the gist of the article was that most small businesses who actually create jobs will not be affected by the income tax increase. Small business is obviously an important part of the economy, that sentence about it not creating jobs sounds like poor choice of words on the part of the author. Hardy reason enough to disqualify the rest of the article, though.

It's quite a stretch to say that a clearly written false 'statement of fact' was just a "poor choice of words". When a major premise within the article is a bold-faced lie...I have difficulty getting past that...sorry. But hey...if you want to believe all the rest without reservation...that's certainly your perogative.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE
Oh yeah cause the *booming* tech industry that was around with the massive amount of money that brought in had nothing to do with it.

I know lets raise taxes on business when there is no booming brand new industry that is bringing in a ton of cash, I mean it is the * exact* same situation.

Yeah, like I said, you are dense.

There is never a good time to raise taxes in your eyes, if the economy is booming well raising taxes will slow it down, if things are bad then raising taxes will make it worse.

You're just against higher taxes regardless of the purpose, so it really doesn't matter what you say, you're intellectually dishonest.

Or dense, as others have called it.

Actually, a good time to raise taxes somewhat is during a major boom where business owners will not feel it as much. We missed that opportunity. It is your idiotic ilk who has some notion that "we have to get em now when the getting good" who think its a good idea to tax business owners and take more money away from them when they are already struggling due to the economy.

How about we stop bailing out the ghettos and trailer parks with the backs of people who actually work?


Can you explain to me how raising taxes on business is going to help the economy. Let us see if anyone of you idiots can do that.

Yeah raising taxes to pay for programs you don't believe in. You have this warped sense that we're helping poor stupid people, so the almost 9% of people unemployed right now are all sad sack losers? What a shitty and erroneous attitude.

What is it that you do for society again? What's your tax bracket chump?

I bet you'd support raising taxes to give more money to Israel.

You didn't answer how raising taxes is going to help business in this economy.

Come on now, you must think somewhat? Or did they skip that point in your daily "Why business is bad" newsletter. You should email them and tel them to include it next time.

Since you're such an expert on what real work is and who the real bootstrappers are in this economy. What do you do for a living?

Someone has to pay for the stimulus, and in this case it's the only people who can afford to, the richest 2% which includes some small business owners. These are people who did as a group, much, much better under Bush's tax policies than the rest of society. The stimulus is being put into effect and has already saved thousands of jobs which would have evaporated, but those are all lazy trailer park asshole's right?

Also, do you even know when these are supposed to take effect? It's not anytime soon and is contingent upon the economy turning around.

You still didn't answer the question. Are you unable too? How does this tax increase help small business which employ so many Americans?

Why don't you answer my question, I'll tell you why, because you're a student who's never had a real fucking job and hasn't paid shit for taxes, yet you want to point fingers at other people.

So keep your ill informed opinions to yourself, when you're out of your diapers and have experience in the workplace then perhaps you'll be more able to form opinions based on facts.

Furthermore, I won't be answering your question because it's a strawman. No one, not me, not Obama has said that raising taxes is supposed to help small businesses, you are conflating two unrelated things.

Awww look at the little liberal. He was faced with a hard question and is now foaming at the mouth wahhhhhhhhhhhhh.


You can't answer it you pathetic hollow piece of shit. Jesus if you had any less depth to you, you would be two dimensional. As it stands, when I am out of university I will be taxed to death. Even more so since I am in Canada making less since our healthcare is socialized.

Sorry to say, but you are one ignorant fuck. People in this world can see how hollow your arguments are and how pathetic you actually are to believe in something without knowing anything about it. Dumbfucker.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Parroting? No, Not Parroting, I am friends with multiple small business owners. Not everyone on P&N is a basement dwelling armchair bitching idiot. (Most of the left is it seems).

I asked a question earlier, how will raising taxes help small business. Can you answer that Mr. I am small business?

Oh, I didnt realize you have "Friends" that own small businesses. That makes you an expert then. My friend is a doctor - maybe I can remove someone's appendix.

Anyhow, repealing the Bush tax cuts is NOT a move designed to help small business. Its designed to get mo money to the govt. Duh...

The point is that it is NOT going to break the backs of any sized business. The economy sucking is what is breaking thier backs.

So you don't mind the massive bailouts being given to the banks as long as you don't really have to pay for them is what I am getting?

So we can hang small business out to dry because the jones spent too much money on there mortgage is what you are saying?

No, that's not what I am saying at all... The fact that we need these bailouts pisses me off... Come on, it pisses everyone off. I think there are a whole lot of politicians and CEO's that should be put in jail for this (actually, I personally believe in the death penalty and these asses, should all be shot)... And homowners that bought beyond their means should lose thier houses, the dumbshits...

However, the reality is that the damage is already done and we cant go back in time to undo it. Since it already happened and we cant go back in time to stop it from happening, we HAVE to keep the banks, AIG, etc etc afloat or we WILL completely destroy the economy.

Small business is not "hung out to dry"... Stop the drama.

Well than, we only seem to disagree on one point. I 100% believe that we need to support small business at the moment to keep the jobs here, tax em when this passes but the stress is just being added ontop of everything else.

Sad to say, this situation is really entirely new so we won't know which idea was the better one till after it is all said and done. Shitty way to find things out huh?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE
Oh yeah cause the *booming* tech industry that was around with the massive amount of money that brought in had nothing to do with it.

I know lets raise taxes on business when there is no booming brand new industry that is bringing in a ton of cash, I mean it is the * exact* same situation.

Yeah, like I said, you are dense.

There is never a good time to raise taxes in your eyes, if the economy is booming well raising taxes will slow it down, if things are bad then raising taxes will make it worse.

You're just against higher taxes regardless of the purpose, so it really doesn't matter what you say, you're intellectually dishonest.

Or dense, as others have called it.

Actually, a good time to raise taxes somewhat is during a major boom where business owners will not feel it as much. We missed that opportunity. It is your idiotic ilk who has some notion that "we have to get em now when the getting good" who think its a good idea to tax business owners and take more money away from them when they are already struggling due to the economy.

How about we stop bailing out the ghettos and trailer parks with the backs of people who actually work?


Can you explain to me how raising taxes on business is going to help the economy. Let us see if anyone of you idiots can do that.

Yeah raising taxes to pay for programs you don't believe in. You have this warped sense that we're helping poor stupid people, so the almost 9% of people unemployed right now are all sad sack losers? What a shitty and erroneous attitude.

What is it that you do for society again? What's your tax bracket chump?

I bet you'd support raising taxes to give more money to Israel.

You didn't answer how raising taxes is going to help business in this economy.

Come on now, you must think somewhat? Or did they skip that point in your daily "Why business is bad" newsletter. You should email them and tel them to include it next time.

Since you're such an expert on what real work is and who the real bootstrappers are in this economy. What do you do for a living?

Someone has to pay for the stimulus, and in this case it's the only people who can afford to, the richest 2% which includes some small business owners. These are people who did as a group, much, much better under Bush's tax policies than the rest of society. The stimulus is being put into effect and has already saved thousands of jobs which would have evaporated, but those are all lazy trailer park asshole's right?

Also, do you even know when these are supposed to take effect? It's not anytime soon and is contingent upon the economy turning around.

You still didn't answer the question. Are you unable too? How does this tax increase help small business which employ so many Americans?

Why don't you answer my question, I'll tell you why, because you're a student who's never had a real fucking job and hasn't paid shit for taxes, yet you want to point fingers at other people.

So keep your ill informed opinions to yourself, when you're out of your diapers and have experience in the workplace then perhaps you'll be more able to form opinions based on facts.

Furthermore, I won't be answering your question because it's a strawman. No one, not me, not Obama has said that raising taxes is supposed to help small businesses, you are conflating two unrelated things.

Awww look at the little liberal. He was faced with a hard question and is now foaming at the mouth wahhhhhhhhhhhhh.


You can't answer it you pathetic hollow piece of shit. Jesus if you had any less depth to you, you would be two dimensional. As it stands, when I am out of university I will be taxed to death. Even more so since I am in Canada making less since our healthcare is socialized.

Sorry to say, but you are one ignorant fuck. People in this world can see how hollow your arguments are and how pathetic you actually are to believe in something without knowing anything about it. Dumbfucker.

Wow... A bit angry arent you?

For the record, Maybe Ayabe didnt, bit I did answer your question, you just refuse to hear anything that isnt your own viewpoint. Above I explained that repealing the Bush tax breaks is NOT a move to specifically help small business. Its done to give the govt more money.... Thus pay for the stimulus bills that are unfortunately necessary to stop depression. If depression happens, all business will suffer, especially small business, becsaue no-one will be buying much services or goods that they offer... If we can save the economy, or at least keep a certain depression down to a recession, then all business wins, or at least loses less than they would have without the stimulus.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Parroting? No, Not Parroting, I am friends with multiple small business owners. Not everyone on P&N is a basement dwelling armchair bitching idiot. (Most of the left is it seems).

I asked a question earlier, how will raising taxes help small business. Can you answer that Mr. I am small business?

Oh, I didnt realize you have "Friends" that own small businesses. That makes you an expert then. My friend is a doctor - maybe I can remove someone's appendix.

Anyhow, repealing the Bush tax cuts is NOT a move designed to help small business. Its designed to get mo money to the govt. Duh...

The point is that it is NOT going to break the backs of any sized business. The economy sucking is what is breaking thier backs.

So you don't mind the massive bailouts being given to the banks as long as you don't really have to pay for them is what I am getting?

So we can hang small business out to dry because the jones spent too much money on there mortgage is what you are saying?

No, that's not what I am saying at all... The fact that we need these bailouts pisses me off... Come on, it pisses everyone off. I think there are a whole lot of politicians and CEO's that should be put in jail for this (actually, I personally believe in the death penalty and these asses, should all be shot)... And homowners that bought beyond their means should lose thier houses, the dumbshits...

However, the reality is that the damage is already done and we cant go back in time to undo it. Since it already happened and we cant go back in time to stop it from happening, we HAVE to keep the banks, AIG, etc etc afloat or we WILL completely destroy the economy.

Small business is not "hung out to dry"... Stop the drama.

Well than, we only seem to disagree on one point. I 100% believe that we need to support small business at the moment to keep the jobs here, tax em when this passes but the stress is just being added ontop of everything else.

Sad to say, this situation is really entirely new so we won't know which idea was the better one till after it is all said and done. Shitty way to find things out huh?

I guess so... I just don't see keeping the Bush tax cuts as anything anywhere near enough to make a difference in this huge mess.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: RichardE
Oh yeah cause the *booming* tech industry that was around with the massive amount of money that brought in had nothing to do with it.

I know lets raise taxes on business when there is no booming brand new industry that is bringing in a ton of cash, I mean it is the * exact* same situation.

Yeah, like I said, you are dense.

There is never a good time to raise taxes in your eyes, if the economy is booming well raising taxes will slow it down, if things are bad then raising taxes will make it worse.

You're just against higher taxes regardless of the purpose, so it really doesn't matter what you say, you're intellectually dishonest.

Or dense, as others have called it.

Actually, a good time to raise taxes somewhat is during a major boom where business owners will not feel it as much. We missed that opportunity. It is your idiotic ilk who has some notion that "we have to get em now when the getting good" who think its a good idea to tax business owners and take more money away from them when they are already struggling due to the economy.

How about we stop bailing out the ghettos and trailer parks with the backs of people who actually work?


Can you explain to me how raising taxes on business is going to help the economy. Let us see if anyone of you idiots can do that.

Yeah raising taxes to pay for programs you don't believe in. You have this warped sense that we're helping poor stupid people, so the almost 9% of people unemployed right now are all sad sack losers? What a shitty and erroneous attitude.

What is it that you do for society again? What's your tax bracket chump?

I bet you'd support raising taxes to give more money to Israel.

You didn't answer how raising taxes is going to help business in this economy.

Come on now, you must think somewhat? Or did they skip that point in your daily "Why business is bad" newsletter. You should email them and tel them to include it next time.

Since you're such an expert on what real work is and who the real bootstrappers are in this economy. What do you do for a living?

Someone has to pay for the stimulus, and in this case it's the only people who can afford to, the richest 2% which includes some small business owners. These are people who did as a group, much, much better under Bush's tax policies than the rest of society. The stimulus is being put into effect and has already saved thousands of jobs which would have evaporated, but those are all lazy trailer park asshole's right?

Also, do you even know when these are supposed to take effect? It's not anytime soon and is contingent upon the economy turning around.

You still didn't answer the question. Are you unable too? How does this tax increase help small business which employ so many Americans?

Why don't you answer my question, I'll tell you why, because you're a student who's never had a real fucking job and hasn't paid shit for taxes, yet you want to point fingers at other people.

So keep your ill informed opinions to yourself, when you're out of your diapers and have experience in the workplace then perhaps you'll be more able to form opinions based on facts.

Furthermore, I won't be answering your question because it's a strawman. No one, not me, not Obama has said that raising taxes is supposed to help small businesses, you are conflating two unrelated things.

Awww look at the little liberal. He was faced with a hard question and is now foaming at the mouth wahhhhhhhhhhhhh.


You can't answer it you pathetic hollow piece of shit. Jesus if you had any less depth to you, you would be two dimensional. As it stands, when I am out of university I will be taxed to death. Even more so since I am in Canada making less since our healthcare is socialized.

Sorry to say, but you are one ignorant fuck. People in this world can see how hollow your arguments are and how pathetic you actually are to believe in something without knowing anything about it. Dumbfucker.

Wow... A bit angry arent you?

For the record, Maybe Ayabe didnt, bit I did answer your question, you just refuse to hear anything that isnt your own viewpoint. Above I explained that repealing the Bush tax breaks is NOT a move to specifically help small business. Its done to give the govt more money.... Thus pay for the stimulus bills that are unfortunately necessary to stop depression. If depression happens, all business will suffer, especially small business, becsaue no-one will be buying much services or goods that they offer... If we can save the economy, or at least keep a certain depression down to a recession, then all business wins, or at least loses less than they would have without the stimulus.

I did respond to you.

We agree on the same points in all but the business tax. I would rather we cut social programs that serve no purpose rather than cut business tax, but I am sure that is another topic for another day.

The argument ayabe and I are having is centered around the fact he doesn't even know why he believes in what he does and instead lashes out instead of answering. You know, those angry posts you ignored because he is on your side?

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Well the gist of the article was that most small businesses who actually create jobs will not be affected by the income tax increase. Small business is obviously an important part of the economy, that sentence about it not creating jobs sounds like poor choice of words on the part of the author. Hardy reason enough to disqualify the rest of the article, though.

It's quite a stretch to say that a clearly written false 'statement of fact' was just a "poor choice of words". When a major premise within the article is a bold-faced lie...I have difficulty getting past that...sorry. But hey...if you want to believe all the rest without reservation...that's certainly your perogative.

Actually looking over it again, what the article states and the study you provided are not contradictory. The report you linked to points out that in terms of absolute numbers, small businesses employ a lot of people. The article simply says that most small businesses do not employ people (six million w/employees, 20 million w/out). Just means that those six million with employees are responsible for a large chunk of US employment.

And the Tax Policy Center seems to be non-partisan, so yes, until you can present evidence to the contrary, I an inclined to believe what the report says.

Census confirms the claim of most small businesses being nonemployer.

http://www.census.gov/epcd/www/smallbus.html

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Well the gist of the article was that most small businesses who actually create jobs will not be affected by the income tax increase. Small business is obviously an important part of the economy, that sentence about it not creating jobs sounds like poor choice of words on the part of the author. Hardy reason enough to disqualify the rest of the article, though.

It's quite a stretch to say that a clearly written false 'statement of fact' was just a "poor choice of words". When a major premise within the article is a bold-faced lie...I have difficulty getting past that...sorry. But hey...if you want to believe all the rest without reservation...that's certainly your perogative.

Actually looking over it again, what the article states and the study you provided are not contradictory. The report you linked to points out that in terms of absolute numbers, small businesses employ a lot of people. The article says that most small businesses do not employ people (six million w/employees, 20 million w/out). Just means that those six million with employees are responsible for a large chunk of US employment.

And the Tax Policy Center seems to be non-partisan, so yes, until you can present evidence to the contrary, I an inclined to believe what the report says.

That statement was a distortion used as a premise to say 'most' small businesses wouldn't feel that pinch at all. This is 'technically' correct assuming you want to play the semantics game and get to a conclusion you want to believe. My point is centered around those small businesses (technically a 'minority' of small businesses from a purely numerical standpoint) that drive job growth and a very large segment of our economy...not the small mom and pop shops that use Schedule C on their personal returns. IMO...these 'minority' small businesses need direct stimulus instead of a poke in the eye like a tax increase. Trickle down economics FTW? I'm skeptical. The timing for a tax increase for these guys is horrible and certainly doesn't help stimulate our economy no matter how you spin it. Granted...technically 'most' won't be affected by the tax increase...but why should any be adversely affected in these difficult times?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: RichardE

You know, those angry posts you ignored because he is on your side?[/quote]

LOL ... OK, I did do that. =)

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I hadn't heard about this "boss email" until now, but it seems to make sense to me. Why is everyone saying it's not true or doesn't make sense? Can someone please explain this in some sort of unbiased manner and without any "lol ur dumb" comments? :/

Sure, it's a dishonest representation of the two opposing sides, reliant upon a fictional character of virtue, and a fictional character of sloth on the other side. It relies upon the absurd notion that taxes on businesses directly relate to jobs. (guess what the tax rate was on those making over $200,000 in the middle of the 20th century? Jobs where plentiful)

It relies on the same tactics that most chain emails do, which is why debating points brought up in chain emails is retarded. You're far better off sending a nasty letter back to whoever sent you this stupid shit and telling them to stop sending you junk. If you sought it out yourself, well then you're retarded and got what you deserved.

What would an example of the opposite situation look like? I just think it'd be easier for me to see the middle ground if I can see an extreme example from each side.

Also, did you mean taxes on businesses in the mid-20th century? The way I followed it was that the "boss letter" was complaining about taxes on a business, not taxes on a well-paid employee.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
It's quite a stretch to say that a clearly written false 'statement of fact' was just a "poor choice of words". When a major premise within the article is a bold-faced lie...I have difficulty getting past that...sorry. But hey...if you want to believe all the rest without reservation...that's certainly your perogative.

Actually looking over it again, what the article states and the study you provided are not contradictory. The report you linked to points out that in terms of absolute numbers, small businesses employ a lot of people. The article says that most small businesses do not employ people (six million w/employees, 20 million w/out). Just means that those six million with employees are responsible for a large chunk of US employment.

And the Tax Policy Center seems to be non-partisan, so yes, until you can present evidence to the contrary, I an inclined to believe what the report says.

That statement was a distortion used as a premise to say 'most' small businesses wouldn't feel that pinch at all. This is 'technically' correct assuming you want to play the semantics game and get to a conclusion you want to believe. My point is centered around those small businesses (technically a 'minority' of small businesses from a purely numerical standpoint) that drive job growth and a very large segment of our economy...not the small mom and pop shops that use Schedule C on their personal returns. IMO...these 'minority' small businesses need direct stimulus instead of a poke in the eye like a tax increase. Trickle down economics FTW? I'm skeptical. The timing for a tax increase for these guys is horrible and certainly doesn't help stimulate our economy no matter how you spin it. Granted...technically 'most' won't be affected by the tax increase...but why should any be adversely affected in these difficult times?

Fair enough. It just seems like some politicians are trying to make it sound like this is going to hit mom and pops (what I personally think of when I hear the word small business, not a company with hundreds of employees), when this isn't the case. Also, the TPC study estimates that only 660k+ small business owners fall into the top two tax brackets. It also suggests that "many" of those 660k+ run businesses without payroll (I wish I could find an exact number).

The Bush tax cuts are supposed to expire at the end of 2010, correct? I haven't been against letting them expire because I was optimistic that the economy would be on the way to recovery by then. The news coming out as of late hasn't been encouraging, though. If the economy is still declining, I agree that it would be a poor idea to further increase taxes.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I hadn't heard about this "boss email" until now, but it seems to make sense to me. Why is everyone saying it's not true or doesn't make sense? Can someone please explain this in some sort of unbiased manner and without any "lol ur dumb" comments? :/

Sure, it's a dishonest representation of the two opposing sides, reliant upon a fictional character of virtue, and a fictional character of sloth on the other side. It relies upon the absurd notion that taxes on businesses directly relate to jobs. (guess what the tax rate was on those making over $200,000 in the middle of the 20th century? Jobs where plentiful)

It relies on the same tactics that most chain emails do, which is why debating points brought up in chain emails is retarded. You're far better off sending a nasty letter back to whoever sent you this stupid shit and telling them to stop sending you junk. If you sought it out yourself, well then you're retarded and got what you deserved.

What would an example of the opposite situation look like? I just think it'd be easier for me to see the middle ground if I can see an extreme example from each side.

Also, did you mean taxes on businesses in the mid-20th century? The way I followed it was that the "boss letter" was complaining about taxes on a business, not taxes on a well-paid employee.

Well the tax increases that are being debated are mostly income tax hikes, the primary complaint being that they will affect small business owners. (which is in and of itself dishonest as the vast, vast majority of small business owners do not make more than $250,000) So, the same taxes that are being debated now were much higher in the past, and yet we did just fine. This raises pretty serious doubts as to the conclusions of our friendly boss' letter.

An example of the opposite situation would be if you had a letter talking about how the rich people in this country had everything handed to them on a silver platter, how they lucked out by being born in an area with good schools, the history of preferential treatment for white people on business and housing loans, etc... etc. On the other hand you would have the poor person who works their fingers to the bone 12 hours a day for no pay, selflessly slaving away at a job none of us want to do, and why? Because the government is owned by the rich people, and they want to keep it that way.

That letter the other way would be every bit as retarded, because once again it massively distorts reality in the service of an agenda, using sympathetic characters that the people reading it are supposed to use as a proxy for themselves so that they can personally identify with how horribly they are put upon.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Vic
"Moderates now find themselves betwixt and between. On the left, there is a president who appears to be, as [Clive] Crook says, 'a conviction politician, a bold progressive liberal.' On the right, there are the Rush Limbaugh brigades. The only thing more scary than Obama?s experiment is the thought that it might fail and the political power will swing over to a Republican Party that is currently unfit to wield it." -- David Brooks, March 3, 2009

So true heh.

Good time for a third moderate party to emerge?

great another neocon party no thanks.

we need a 3rd party not connected to business that is truly fiscally conservative that is looking out for America FIRST and its self interest second. Hard though Americans are not Fiscally conservative anymore. We are addicted to credit.

Oh right cause business is the bad guy and we would all do good farming.

I'm sure you can move to North Vietnam for your utopia.

Wow you have no idea what I said. Bush and BHO are homers for their own cause/businesses. So much so it skews their judgement like a girl on prom night drinking a 2-liter of Purple passion.