The Bible says two things (I dont want this to turn into a bash thread)

[MrPALCO]

<< The Bible says two things (I dont want this to turn into a bash thread) >>



Many in this thread have been very diplomatic in trying to answer your statement.

I have a question for you, would you give a two year old a copy of War and Peace, and expect him to have the capacity to comprehend it's text?

The Deep calls to the Deep... the Power and Wisdom of God... is not for you at this time.

Start your journey where We did,

Jesus

 

[Czar]

MrPALCO

Sorry but I´v never read War and Peace, but logicly I would not expect a 2 year old to be able to read it since he hasnt learned to read.

To many people take the bible for granted, what is written in it and what they think it means. People allways think they are right. So if God is for peace and understanding then why cant people understand the darn bible and then go to war over it?

 

[convex]

seems like reading the bible is alot like reading nostradamuses quatrains, you make what you will out of it and it magically makes sense.

 

[Spoooon]

<< Sorry but I´v never read War and Peace, but logicly I would not expect a 2 year old to be able to read it since he hasnt learned to read. >>



Not quite what MrPalco meant. A better analogy would have been giving a 6 year old a copy of War and Peace, or perhaps asking a 1st grader to learn calculus.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< So if God is for peace and understanding then why cant people understand the darn bible and then go to war over it? >>



From the beginning...line upon line, precept upon precept, Faith upon Faith.

The Starting Line...

Jesus

 

[Czar]

MrPALCO

sorry, but you made no sense there

 

[Isla]

<< You can't use the Bible to prove or disprove anything. Over the years, it's been rewritten and altered that anything that you would use as fact is nothing more than supposition. Who knows what's true or what isn't? If you want to believe, fine. If you don't want to, that's fine too. I think it's a waste of time arguing back and forth using the same source as supporting evidence in your arguements. >>




(Emphasis on the 'waste of time' part... people believe what they want to believe, especially once they reach a certain age. No disrespect to anyone here, whatever your beliefs are.)

Amen, brother Spoooon!

Can I get a witness?

 

[MrPALCO]

<< MrPALCO >>






<< sorry, but you made no sense there >>



When a man enters a race to Win, he starts at the starting line and stays on the course.

Question, have you entered the race from the starting line?

 

[Czar]

MrPALCO

Ofcorse, we all start in our own way. We all set our own course, if we go away from that course it will only hurt ourselves because we never reached our goals.

 

[Spoooon]

Thank you Isla.

You guys know how Mormons go on missions? Not all, but some of them do. That's when they knock on your door and talk to you about the Mormon faith. My roommate and I had a few Mormons come by. We talked to them for about an hour about God, whether He exists, etc. I don't think they were expecting a theological debate when they knocked on our door.

 

[Semper Fi]

Whether a person believes or not is their choice. We do have free will. If looked at objectively and with logic, the bible is a great resource. Historians and archaeologists have only proven the bible. It used to be said that there was no writing at the time of Moses.

Czar-instead of looking for information to prove your point why not search for the truth?

Like many here you are avoiding it.

And, no, this post is not meant to &quot;prove&quot; anything to anyone. But simply to say use logic for something that will make a difference in your life.

Many who have posted may have read a verse or two, but I doubt if they have read the bible.

Kidvicious-like hiphop listen to the &quot;music&quot; yourself and don't allow peoples closed minds and hearts deter you from the truth. You ask good questions and I for one do not take offense.
Please research the bible for yourself, asking for info here is like asking an Nvidiot what they think of 3dfx.


&quot;Evidence of the book?s inspiration includes prophecy, archeology, cohesive unity, accuracy, and Christ revealed.

PROPHECY - See the following and compare them with history: Babylon (Isaiah. 13:19-22), Tyre (Ezekiel 26:3-5), Sidon (Ezekiel 28:21-23), Cyrus (Isaiah. 44:28,45:1), Medo-Persia &amp; Greece (Dan. 8:20,21), and Jesus? Birthplace (Micah 5:2).

ARCHAEOLOGY - Moabite stone discovered in 1868 at Dibon, Jordan, confirming Moabite attacks on Israel as recorded in 2 Kings 1 &amp; 3.

The Lachish letters discovered in 1932-1938, 24 miles north of Beersheba, describing the attack of Nebuchadnezzar on Jerusalem in 586 B.C. History confirms this.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1948. They date back to 150-170 B.C. and contain all or parts of the Old Testament books except the book of Esther. They confirm the Bible?s accuracy.

Cyrus? Cylinder records Cyrus? overthrow of Babylon and his subsequent deliverance of the Jewish captives. Again, this is supported by history.

The Rosetta Stone discovered in 1799, in Egypt, by Napoleon?s scientists, was written in three languages - hieroglyphics, demotic, and Greek. It unlocked the mystery of understanding hieroglyphics. Understanding hieroglyphics helps to confirm the authenticity of the Bible.

COHESIVE UNITY - Evidence of the Bible?s inspiration also includes its cohesive unity. In more than 3000 places the Bible declares itself inspired (2 Peter 1:21). Making such claims of itself implies that the Bible is either inspired by God or a fraud. When one studies the Bible keeping it?s context clean and understanding the central theme, there is a cohesive unity throughout the Bible that clears apparent contradictions.

ACCURACY - Certainly it is inconceivable that a book so accurate through the centuries could be considered anything less than inspired by God. No other book has ever been compiled by this many writers over such an expanse of time.

CHRIST REVEALED - the greatest evidence of the Bible?s inspiration is evidenced in the Christ it reveals and the changes in those who study it (see John 5:39, Acts 4:12, Matthew 11:26-28).&quot;

 

[Stark]

Hmm? so much fighting over such a small thing.

The apparent discrepancies (i.e. contradictions) in the Bible were once explained to me in a secular college class on the Old Testament. Modern (secular, non-religious) scholars basically hold that there were four different authors (or groups of authors) of the first five books of the Bible (also known as the Pentateuch). The origin of this theory came from Julius Wellhausen's 1872 book, Prolegomena to the History of Ancient Israel. Today it is commonly described as source criticism or the &quot;Documentary Theory.&quot;

Any conservative Jew (at least after the exilic period c. 539 bc) or Christian will tell you that Moses wrote those books, but he never expressly claims as much. Mosaic authorship was never questioned until around the time of the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.

Without getting too involved, the first two chapters in Genesis show the different styles of two of those authors. Genesis 1 uses the Hebrew word &quot;elohim&quot; for God's name, while the second creation story in Genesis 2 and 3 regularly uses &quot;Yahweh elohim.&quot; The style of the two creation stories differs significantly. The author of the first account of creation is called the Priestly source. The second story is said to have come from the Yahwist source.

So basically, two different versions of creation each equally cherished by the ancient Jewish people came from different sources at different times in Israel's history. The two different stories were included, as is, in the final version of Genesis that we now have. The very fact that the two accounts were not edited for continuity are great indicators of the integrity of the text; if nobody edited such a blatant &quot;contradiction,&quot; why would they edit anything else?

So there you have a secular, scholarly explanation for the two different creation accounts found in Genesis. Still, does that give you a strong enough argument to claim that there is no God who created the universe and all the creatures in it (i.e. YOU)? I don't think it does. What I get out of these discrepancies is that NOBODY (presently on earth) knows exactly how the universe was formed. Even the most advanced astronomer will admit that the big bang theory has no answer for what existed at point &quot;0.&quot; The theory can only account for the creation of matter immediately after the &quot;bang,&quot; but not during or before it. One of the greatest things about faith is realizing that you do not, and will never in your lifetime, have all the answers. The important stuff, however, is pretty well covered in the Bible... especially the second book.

 

[Moonbeam]

If we were in Iran, this would all be about the Koran. It is amazing to me that we all just got lucky and were born where the real truth is.

The truth is a fan. No the truth is a broom. The truth is a pillar. The truth, did the three blind men but know it, is an elephant.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Ofcorse, we all start in our own way. We all set our own course, if we go away from that course it will only hurt ourselves because we never reached our goals. >>



I'll ask it again,

Have you entered the race from the starting line?

 

[Czar]

MrPALCO

Try to make sense please, its like me asking you, have you learned how to fly?
I am only meaning metophorecly, but only I know what I mean, you dont.

 

[Spoooon]

<< If we were in Iran, this would all be about the Koran. It is amazing to me that we all just got lucky and were born where the real truth is. >>



Such arrogance! The Koran is about the same God that the Bible is about. Who knows which contains any bit of truth? We'll never know, so the point is moot.

 

[Isla]

Well, at least this has remained a rather friendly debate... and very humorous too...

It usually takes an traumatic/ miraculous event to change a person's mind one way or another about what is true and what is not in regards to the God question. Debates like these are good for sharpening debate skills, but I don't think anyone is ever converted to either side.

As for me, I have that 'personal relationship' often spoken of, but I don't take the Bible as a perfect source. I'm quite certain men have mucked it up over the ages, so I rely more on that 'small, still voice' inside. I find it is a much better guide than something so open to interpretation. Even if you don't think it is open to interpretation, tell that to generations upon generations of religious scholars! They live to debate this stuff.

It's about the fruits of the Spirit, guys.... I think, if you have them, no matter what your religious stance is, you are doing something right.

&quot;...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control&quot;

 

[Czar]

Isla, well put. It is more what we do and what we think that should be judged, not what religion we are, that just wouldnt be fair.

 

[Athanasius]

There is a Word from God. That Word is not the Bible. The Bible, as wonderful and as inspired and as revealing as I believe it to be, is still only a guide. It points people to the Eternal Word, the Logos of God, who was incarnated in the humanity of Jesus of Nazareth. Arguing about the Bible will never draw polarized souls to the life and testimony of Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus himself, speaking to the hyper-fundamentalists of his day, said:


<< You diligently study the Scriptures because you think by them that you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. (John 5:39-40, NIV) >>



Is there one who wants to know God? Look at, ponder, trust, and imitate Jesus of Nazareth. I think that is what Mr. Palco meant by saying, &quot;Start at the starting line.&quot; If one really &quot;sees&quot; Jesus, one sees the Father of Light. (John 14:6-9)

When I really try to look at life the way Jesus looked at it, if I try to live like he did for even ten minutes, I realize how badly I miss the mark. Having missed and having faced that, I find mercy, not condemnation. (Romans 8:1)

 

[yata]

MrPalco's attempts to instill doubts and self-bashing attitude- common techniques apparent in preachers' words. Of course everyone may at times stray off course in whatever endeavors, but it doesn't mean that the cause of one woes is not believing in higher beings. I argue that turning into God is falling off course more. How 'bout them garden &quot;apples&quot;? None of my business, but it's not cool playing with people's minds whom I or whoever might have to deal with later. Some I already have. This is my experience.

 

[Moonbeam]

Oh my gosh, Spoooon, I think you missed what I meant by 'amazed' there in my last post. Let me put it a different way. I have recently come to realize that if Monty Hall? were to hide truth behind one of a million doors, and I picked the one I was taught from birth, my chances of being right would be one in a million. The good news though, according to this recent mathematical enlightenment, is that if he were to open all the false doors and offered me a chance to switch, i would certainly find the truth. That last part, of course, has nothing to do with what I was saying before. It's just some extra good news. So although I am probably arrogant, I was not being arrogant in the way you thought. Islam, I understand, is the final word on religion. I just happened to pick it because I really don't know what religion they practice in Borneo, which would have been an equally illustritive alternative. So, what I am saying is that I find it highoy suspect that everybody believes what they were taught by theri culture and everybody is right. Amazing.

The important things, the elephantine essense, if you will, are more like the things that Isla enumerated. At the core of any genuine truth there is LOVE that incinerates the self. Such a happening can occur to people everywhere, of every faith or no faith. When you look at the world you realize that very few seem to have any idea what their religion is really about. We attach ourselves to the externals and miss the essence.

 

[Harrisment]

GOD IS DEAD

 

[Czar]

Yeah, he died 2000 years ago

 

[Spoooon]

<< So, what I am saying is that I find it highly suspect that everybody believes what they were taught by their culture and everybody is right. >>



My idea is that each religion may worship the same god, just in different ways. Perhaps the various Hindu gods are different aspects of the one true god. Or it could be vice versa. At any rate, assuming God created the world, is it not also safe to assume that all the world worships the same God? I think that that is better than saying &quot;neener neener I'm right and you're wrong!&quot;



<< We attach ourselves to the externals and miss the essence. >>



I think that part of what makes religion a balm to some people are the externals; the various trappings of each religion. I think that for the most part, people get the essence, but the routine is what gets them through hard times. However, there are a lot of people that do just worship the externals and do not get what it is all about.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< GOD IS DEAD >>



That is true, some gods are dead.

The Most High God... ... ...is alive!!